ROCKET VAPOR

What is the correct style of bypass hose clamp used on a '70 442 for the bypass hose that runs from the thermostat housing down to the water pump???

Is it a "tower" clamp or a side screw "band" clamp style type???

Oh, by the way, the car is a March of '70 build from the Fremont plant if that would matter.

70Post

Neither one. You need the "wire" clamps....really double wire clamps. A larger version is used for the radiator hoses.

You will get this style if you order them from Fusick or Supercars Unlimited. Here's a pic from Supercars Unlimited's site:

http://www.supercarsunlimited.com/images/54124.jpg

The Tower style clamps started on the '71 models or later.

Bluevista

Oldsmobile '71 and later.
My '68 GTO uses all the tower type clamps, I wonder why Olds waited to start using them?
Maybe because tower clamps are junk?

ROCKET VAPOR

Hey, thanks for the info guys!!!

Patten, I didn't know you were an Olds guy. I have ran into you several times over at Team Chevelle.

How well do these wire clamps work, as I have never used them before.

After destroying several sets of the "tower" clamps on my son's Chevelle I learned to hold the tower steady with a wrench while tightening the "tower" clamp and to permatex the hose on, so you would not have too overtighten the clamp (and destroying the clamp) to get the hose to seal up.

Is using permatex to glue the hose on the trick to get the hose to seal up with these wire clamps???

What tool have you guys had luck with on the "single" wire clamps to install them, channel locks???

Also, what is the factory correct heater hose and water pump bypass hose style for a '70 442 with A/C???

Is it smooth with GM printing or is it the same ribbed style that pacecarjeff sales for Chevelles and Camaros???

Do you know the heater hose and water pump bypass hose sizes on a '70 442 with A/C??? Is it 5/8" and 3/4"???

70Post

Rocket Vapor.....Oh yeah...I'm an Olds nut from WAY WAY BACK.

>Sealing Ability: In my experience these double wire clamps work just fine...no leakage problems.

>Heater Hoses: I'm about 100% sure the '70's used the ribbed heater hoses instead of the "GM" stamped hoses.

>Leaking hoses: From my experience, it seems I've run into a few of the "J" shaped bypass hoses that frankly, seem ever-so-slightly too large for the metal fitting that comes out of the top of the water pump. I don't know if it's because the hoses just aren't made the same (ie sloppier or worn out machines or looser tolerances,et) or what BUT I do know I've run into this problem. Can't tell you if trying a hose from a different supplier will help or not. If all else fails (ie you've cranked down the clamp and it still won't quite seal up perfectly) you could try a little of the non-drying gasket adhesive (GM makes some and Permatex has it--#2 Form A Gasket Sealant Non-Hardening PN 80016 2BR--small 3 ounce tubes).

Note: I'm not contradicting myself...I stated the double wire clamps seal up fine above and now I'm talking about leaking hoses....seriously, the bypass hose fitment on some I have had really sucked....slipped onto the fittings much too easily and it wasn't because the alum thermo housing nipple was corroded away or because the water pump outlet was too small, etc. Just looked like sloppy hose manufacturing to me.

>Heater Hose to Heater Core Outlet Clamps...Tool:There is a tool specifically made for these. KD or Lisle Tools (auto parts stores and Sears typically carry some of their stuff) make them among others. Worth the relatively reasonable price to buy as they lock down and hold these Pain-In-The-A## clamps A LOT better than any type of regular pliers.

Something that holds them in place well is VERY HELPFUL...especially once you've tried to install them. Maybe the repro places have changed these a little but one set I got from Fusick really didn't seem to have the correct sized clamp for the larger heater hose. You would clamp down the clamp for the 3/4" heater hose as far as you could and it was still a major nightmare to get it onto the right spot. With a pair of pliers, etc it would have been pretty much impossible as it took A LOT of pushing, manipulating, etc to get the thing on the right way and the clamp would have gone flying out of a regular pair of pliers a million times.

Eventually, it looked like the two little ears, or prongs that you gripped with the pliers weren't LONG ENOUGH and you couldn't get the clamp spread out far enough.....with longer ears on the clamp you could have gotten the thing spread open further and had it slip on a bit easier. I think I ended up finding another similar clamp from a Mopar that had longer ears.

You won't know if this is the case until you get a set and try it...but no matter what, it's easier with the hose clamp pliers made for these clamps.

>"Correct" Bypass Hose Style: Well, this depends on your thermostat housing. The '70 cars originally came with the cast aluminum thermo housing with the short bypass nipple...and these used a "J" shaped hose. But...these alum housings tend to corrode easier and also warp so at some point Olds offered a cast iron housing with a pressed in steel pipe that displaced most of the area previously occupied by the J-hose. Thus, the cars with these cast iron-with pressed in pipe housings only use a short length of straight hose between the pressed in pipe and water pump fitting.

I think the cast iron unit was a service replacement piece they installed on cars that had problems with the alum housing and they must have also started installing it on the factory motors at some point...but I have no clue exactly when.

As far as any printing on the bypass hose itself...I think the "J" shaped hoses sold by the repro guys like Fusick, etc may have a GM Part number ink/paint stamped on them. I have no clue if the original ones actually had this on them or not. Typically, a "J" hose from an auto parts store won't have anything ink/paint stamped on it....usually a label or sticker is just wrapped around those.

If you are doing a hardcore resto then I would go with the cast aluminum housing on a '70 car that uses the "J" hose (Note--the cast alum housing is smooth...no sand cast type texture like the cast iron units, etc).

Heater Hose Sizes: 5/8 and 3/4 are used....not 100% sure on the bypass but it's probably 5/8 also.

Run to Rund

The bypass is 3/4". Olds had problems with the J bypass hose blowing out and that is a major reason for their "campaign" around 1971-2 to change to the iron neck/steel tube package. My 1972 GMPD parts book shows 1470030 clamp for 64-72 bypass hoses. I know on the 66 Tri Carbs it was a single spring wire with end tangs to open it, so I suspect they all used it on the bypass in that era. However, the story doesn't end there. My June 73 Illustrations GMPD book shows the single wire clamp on the illustration of 1965 and says it is typical up to 74. Then the illustration of a 1968 engine shows the double wire/screw clamp for 68 and says typical of 69. It shows a 73 A body illustration with the iron/steel tube neck and the "tower" clamps with screw. When I have had problems with sealing, I use black RTV, put on the clamp, and wait for it to cure before adding coolant.

ROCKET VAPOR

Patton, thanks again for the info.

I am going to get the double wire clamps for the upper and lower radiator hoses and the water pump bypass hose.

I'll get the single wire (corbin style?) clamps for the heater hoses 5/8" and 3/4".

Looks like Fusick is the maker of the clamps, and they have a 10 piece set for $28.00.

So, I'll buy the clamps from Fusick.

http://www.fusick.com/



I'll buy the ribbed style heater hoses from Jeff. His hoses are made by GoodYear and are the highest quality. I learned this on my son's Chevelle. I will have too measure tonight to make sure that 60" of each size is going to be enough hose. Jeff is a great "car guy" as well.

http://www.broachbuster.com/id42.htm

ROCKET VAPOR

I have the cast iron style thermostat housing with the pressed in metal tube.

My 442 is a March of 1970, series 87 hard top coupe, A/C w/ HD cooling, automatic transmission, Fremont assembly build.

Shouldn't it have the cast iron style thermostat housing???

I thought the aluminum housings with the formed bypass hose were for W-30 aluminum intake equipted cars only, in 1970???

I believe my C.I. housing is original to the car, as the car is very original.

70Post

No---tens of thousands of Olds's with cast iron intakes got the alum thermo housing over the years--cars prior to the "changeover". It's definitely NOT an alum-intaked-Olds-specific item.

I don't know if this was something where the dealers automatically swapped them out on earlier cars with alum housings if they happened to be in for some type of service, etc.

Thanks for the info on the ribbed hose supplier also...going to check into getting some from him.

ROCKET VAPOR

Patton, I talked to pacecarjeff about his hoses after buying some GM licensed reproduction hoses that are made in Pakistan from a national restoration parts supplier that were harder than a rock. Jeff told me that the hoses he sales are made by the OEM supplier (Goodyear) from the original tooling. After buying a set for my son's '70 Chevelle, I am a believer.

70Post

!!!!!!!!!!!!NOTE: My info above on the need for a PREFORMED HOSE for the AC applications is wrong....no need for a preformed hose there. I just checked an AC car and it uses the straight hose for the run from the heater core down to the heater control valve on the back of the intake.

Sorry about the "bad info". It didn't make sense that Fusick didn't have a part for this.

I edited my post above to delete the bad info.

Thanks

BlackGold

Nope, not single-wire corbin clamps. For the heater hoses, '70 used the three-prong clamps, same style as what's used on fuel hoses.

Regarding the aluminum vs. cast iron thermostat housings, there is no paper evidence that any 1970 engines received cast iron. But I have encountered some original owners who insist their car came with cast iron.

I have heavily researched -- in factory literature -- the issue of when the factory switched over from the aluminum thermostat housing to the cast iron unit. For those without a life (like me), I've cut and pasted the info (below) which I have previously posted on another website.

The 1971 Engine Assembly Manual shows that the entire production run of 1971 engines used the cast iron housing (409037) with straight hose. In fact, the dates on the drawings show that this was decided already by June 30, 1970, which of course is before the end of the 1970 production run. So if the engineers already decided to switch to cast iron for 1971, might they have switched for the end of the 1970 production run?

The 1970 Engine Assembly Manual shows the use of the aluminum housing (404632) and J-hose for the entire production run -- at least as far as my copy of the manual takes us through the run. The last page revised in my copy of the manual just happens to be page 16, the one which shows installation of the thermostat housing (among many other things). It was last revised May 11, 1970. So that does leave the door open for cast iron usage. Hmmmmm.

Is there any other indication of cast iron usage that early? Nope. I searched through all the Product Information Letters, Product Training Manuals, and Dealer Tech Bulletins and found lots of references to troubles with the pre-formed, J-shaped bypass hoses. The factory made changes to the hose and advised dealers to regularly inspect and replace the hose, even if there was nothing wrong. Despite all these references to the hose, there is not one reference to a change in the thermostat housing design. Given the level of detail these factory bulletins and letters go into on some of the smallest topics, it would be really odd to not mention a change in thermostat housings within 1970. That's pretty damning evidence to me.

Moving on to the Parts Catalogs, both 1976 and 1982 editions, the implications are that 1970 used aluminum, 1973 and later used cast iron, and somewhere in either 1971 or 1972 there was a parting line, with an aluminum "first type" and cast iron "second type." Both catalogs call out the use of part number 231256 when it was time to replace either an aluminum housing or a J-hose. This part number was actually a kit consisting of a 409037 cast iron housing, a straight bypass hose (trim to fit small blocks), clamp, thermostat, gasket, and bolts.

That 231256 kit is significant. With the factory urging dealers to inspect and replace the J-hoses, and with that J-hose being unavailable and superseded with the cast iron kit, you can see what happened. The first time there's a problem (or suspected problem) with the J-hose, the dealer slapped on the kit. If it was under warranty, he gets paid by the factory. He might not even let you know he replaced it. Heck, some dealers might have even replaced it before you took delivery of your car, if they had seen enough bad ones strand their customers. Even if you did the work yourself, where are you going to buy the J-hose? Maybe NAPA? I don't know. It seems like sometime in the life of you car you would be forced to switch to the cast iron housing. And please don't tell me your 38-year-old car still has the original bypass hose.

But I'm still open to the possibility the factory installed cast iron housings late in the 1970 model run. If you are an original owner of a 1970 Olds so equipped, please contact me with relevant information, such as your build date.

ROCKET VAPOR

Great information!!!

1. Can you please post a photo of one of these three pronged bypass hose clamps. Also where do I get one???

2. I noticed the replacement kit as well in my 1976 parts manual.

3. My car has the GM cast iron thermostat housing with the straight style bypass hose. I guess it was put on by the dealership according to the above information. BTW the bypass hose has been changed out several times.

4. The car was a March of 1970 build from the Fremont plant.

ROCKET VAPOR

Are these the correct heater hose clamps for 1970 442 w/ A/C built in March???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/68-69...Q5fAccessories

70Post

In terms of what's available from the repro market, that is closer to the originals. Exact??....No. I don't know of anyone selling the exact clamps but they may be out there.

You could always try to find some good used ones.

The Fusick sets (and others)have come with the Corbin style clamps since they started selling them.

BlackGold

Here's a picture of a similar hose clamp offered by Year One. This particular size and color is for a 3/8" fuel line (according to their website, anyway; I can't remember). The correct clamps for your heater hoses would be larger, of course. I can't remember their colors.

This style of clamp is still made by the same manufacturer (has the same logo, anyway) and looks identical to the originals, except that the ears are now rounded instead of square, which is nice if you don't want to rip your skin open. The last time I needed some of these clamps, I found them in a variety pack at NAPA, so you don't have to pay Year One or anyone else. What I don't know is if you'll be able to find the correct size for your heater hoses. I reused my originals.

blueRAYwhale

I have a small plastic bucket full of those clamps of various sizes(colors). Along with with a bunch of practically every other clamp/clip/plug/grommet/terminal GM used in the A/B/C body's in the seventies, I probably paid six or seven dollars at the most for fifteen pounds of that stuff. Are there just not alot of salvage yards that have GM cars? You don't need the exact year, when they put those cars together the line workers weren't entirely specific about part #'s/bolt/screw/clamp styles, they really weren't. There isn't a person alive who can absolutely tell you the way a particular car left the assembly line, it was at best general. and varied from day to day. Close enough was good enough at GM and it still is.

ROCKET VAPOR

Thank you BlackGold, that is good information!!!

I had seen a three piece set of these "square pronged" pinch clamps on eBay for over $90.00 . This got me thinking that we may need to start rounding these up out of the salvage yards.

ROCKET VAPOR

blueRAYwhale, you are correct! That is a very good point the we sometimes forget, BUT at the very least we can all try to be period correct. I have also learned that some assembly plants were known for doing unique stuff, so that is what I am trying to learn.

blueRAYwhale

blueRAYwhale says: My appologies, I was in a hurry with my reply, no excuse. I didn't see the entire thread, I screwed-up. I read elsewhere later some guy was talking about scavenging-up a bunch of these clamps/fittings from the salvage yards so they wouldn't have to buy this stuff new. That is absolutely the way to go. I wish there was a way to co-op this stuff out to people. You wouldn't believe how much of these expensive parts I,ve seen locally go to the re-cycling machine. I saw a 1984 442 with 53,000 miles on it(for example), get "clunkered" last fall. This car was in great shape and someone let it go for chicken-feed,sad.Really I'm sincerely sorry for the way I approaced the subject.

ROCKET VAPOR

That alright, we're all here to learn.

ROCKET VAPOR

I got the hose clamp kit from Fusick, double wire clamps for bypass hose and also the upper and lower radiator hoses, and single wire "corbin style" clamps for the heater hoses.
These look like they are of good quality, but I will still glue on all hoses with black or clear Permatex to make sure there will be no leakes.

I also have ordered the below cobin hose clamp pliers to install the single wire sping clamps.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

I will post a follow up on how well this brand of pliers worked for getting the hose clamps onto the heater core outlets that are tucked inbetween the fender and the fiberglass A/C box.

tomsw31

Here are somes pics of what they look like. I could not find a supplier of new ones so I have been searching wrecking yards. They were used in full size 1969 and 1970 Olds as well as Cutlass.

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2914...05302957WWJnKP

ROCKET VAPOR

Thanks Tom!, are you stating that these are heater hose clamps or bypass hose clamps???

You are not the first to post this clamp style in this thread. I have looked at members cars here and high end restoration shops on the internet, and have never seen these clamps used on these heater or bypass hoses.

This is not to say your information is not correct, just that I have never seen them before.

The salvage yards here in the OKC area have all moved to only carry 10 to 15 year old cars, so I might plan a trip to go out of town to find some of these small parts I have been looking for.

tomsw31

These clamps are used at the heater core to intake and heater core to water pump. The by -pass uses the double wire style that are readily available. These kind are really hard to find in the wrecking yards that have old Oldsmobiles and they were not used in 1971 and later cars. I was fortunate to have one original clamp still on my W31 to go by while tracking down the other three. The 5/8 clamps are olive in colour and the 3/4 are black. hope this helps. "Black Gold" knows what he is talking about and has done his research!

ROCKET VAPOR

Thanks for the size, color, and aplication info Tom!

I guess I will be looking at 1970 and older Olds for these clamps.

Did any other GM divisions use these large flat band clamps on their heater hoses???

tomsw31

I have not found them on Pontiacs or Chevrolets, but it is possible they also used them. Not sure about Buick.

buzzbomb

I used the ropo double wire clamps on my 70 cutlass restoration and they did not clamp well and i had small leaks. The only way i would use them again is with some sealant around the inside of the hoses. The sealant would make hose removal much more difficult but it would stop the seeping.

StickW31

you got it, not many people know that those clamps are the "correct" ones. Very Very hard to find,


Steve

bobb

Hi Guys,

Yeah, the correct heater hose clamps are hard to find. There's a guy on Ebay who's selling two (2) correct clamps for $75! What's interesting is that I think you can buy the clamps from Inline tube and cut the long tangs down to look exactly like the correct clamps. I've attached a pic of the correct clamp from my 70 and a pic of the Inline clamps.

regards,
bob

Del70

So from the info in the notes above. From the info , from what I can tell from the assembly manual, V8 AC and none AC heater hoses used a spring action hose clamps at each end. I have new ¾ spring action clamps they are black. I can get the 5/8 spring action clamp I think they were olive/green. The clamps I have match the spring action type clamp shown in the image above on the left. Are the spring action clamps as shown in the image above on the left correct? thanks

mrolds69

Right...the ones on the left are correct, the ones Inline sells are not.....even though they say they are correct. My car was low mile when I bought it and had them. I've also seen them on other lo mile cars. I'm positive they are correct for 69. My car is a late 69 build. The 70 guys seem to think they are the same. They are color coded black + olive green. You can see them in the assembly manual + the Guild Service bulletins. I've actually got a small stash of NOS ones, I used to sell the sets on ebay years ago. I'm not too keen on selling any now.

Del70

thanks for the feeback.

Del70

Thanks, installed the spring action clamp on the hose from the pump. It was tight but I opted to just install a black constant clamp. The thought/concern of the hose coming loose driving down the road is not worth the factory look to me. It looked great, took a picture or two for memories, Sure someone has them on ,with no issues.

Octania

This style of clamp is still made by the same manufacturer (has the same logo, anyway) and looks identical to the originals, except that the ears are now rounded instead of square
========================
Wow, have we really come now to not just correct size, type, and color of the hose clamps, but the exact radius of curvature of the corner of an inconsequential tip of a tang

It might be time to revisit the "Correct Corvette Restoration" article I wrote some years ago. Details such as indexing of the caps on the tires' air valves... original electrons in the battery, etc.

Mr Shifty Sidney

Here is some information that may help concerning the thermostat housing change from aluminum to cast iron and their different applications.

Don W

ROCKET VAPOR

Just what the Doctor ordered Thanks Don!

I wonder why they approved the use of the aluminum housings in '71 on 350s with no A/C?

Del70

where do you find this type of document?

Mr Shifty Sidney

I bought an Assembly manual from an Ex Olds employee. This sheet was in the assembly manual.

Don W

70Post

Probably a way to use up what they had in inventory and do so on cars that were possibly less likely to see massive heat...non-ac (ie...more likely to be Northern cars) and smaller motor.