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Was curious if anyone knew what exactly came with a W29 option and also how many were actually in production. I don't think they actually kept track of how many were in circulation but maybe I'm wrong.
TIA
There is no such thing as a 1969 442 W29 option. In model years 1968-71 the 442 was a separate model. The W29 RPO code was not used in those years. It was only in model years were the 442 was not a separate model that the RPO code was used. The standard equipment on a 1969 442 is listed on the LH side of this page from the Salesman's SPECS booklet. There were 26,357 442s built in the 1969 model year, 2,475 Sport Coupes, 19,587 Holiday Coupes, and 4,295 convertibles.
Was curious as to what you think of this build sheet. The Vin matches up with a 69 442 and it does say that the car is equipped with a W29 option. I'm a little confused.
I have to admit, I'm a lot confused. I've certainly never seen that on a 1969. Might be something unique to Linden. Here are the applicable pages from both the 1969 Inspector's Guide and the RPO price list from the 1969 Info Kit. No mention of W29 anywhere, since it wasn't an option. In prior years, Olds documentation DID refer to the 442 option as W29, but for 68-71 they called it the 4400 series since it was a stand-alone model.
This 442 has some very interesting & unique options. But, I'm curious about something. I like the driver side A46 4-way pwr bkt & the passenger side A51 Strato bkt st, but what is it w/ a B50 foam cushion frt? If the B50 option wasn't ordered you got a bag of lumpy coal in each of those seats? IDK, just seems weird I guess. I could see B50 for a bench seat, it just strikes me odd B50 is an option for A46 &/or A51. Not that the W29 option on a car produced three years prior to the W29 option availability isn't odd enough.
This 442 has some very interesting & unique options. But, I'm curious about something. I like the driver side A46 4-way pwr bkt & the passenger side A51 Strato bkt st, but what is it w/ a B50 foam cushion frt? If the B50 option wasn't ordered you got a bag of lumpy coal in each of those seats? IDK, just seems weird I guess. I could see B50 for a bench seat, it just strikes me odd B50 is an option for A46 &/or A51. Not that the W29 option on a car produced three years prior to the W29 option availability isn't odd enough.
Norm, the decoder ring for build sheets tells you that the RPO codes with asterisks (like B50, B30, etc) are standard equipment for that particular model. The only cars that didn't come standard with B50, for example, were the bottom-feeder F85s, and I don't really know how the seats actually differ in those (though note that bucket seats were not available on F85 models that year, only on the Cutlass S and Supreme models).
68 Lansing 442 Broadcast cards (the small cards under the back seat) list W29 on them as well.
That's interesting. I wonder if this has something to do with the 336xx cowl tags in 68 and 69. As far as the factory was concerned, these were trimmed out as Cutlass S models. Still, all the documentation in the inspectors guides and the PIM don't refer to W29 at all in these years.
Norm, the decoder ring for build sheets tells you that the RPO codes with asterisks (like B50, B30, etc) are standard equipment for that particular model. The only cars that didn't come standard with B50, for example, were the bottom-feeder F85s, and I don't really know how the seats actually differ in those (though note that bucket seats were not available on F85 models that year, only on the Cutlass S and Supreme models).
Joe, that makes sense. So, the *U29 CRTSY LAMPS came standard on this car (4467 convertible) but it is listed as an option available on coupes (and, came w/ the D55 center console if ordered). Albeit, it's listed w/ an * on the sheet because it's included on the 4467 convertible.
I recall in a couple of threads the discussion(s) involving the 336xx cowl tags in 68 and 69. I'm amazed how well y'all know your stuff. What I've learned from this thread, thus far, is the 1969 Sales Spec booklet does not list a W29 option; yet, the W29 option was available, at least installed as an option, as evidenced by broadcast card and build sheet. I've had enough to rattle my central cerebrum for this evening. Honestly, this is becoming harder & harder to digest. They made both a W29 442 option and a W30 442 option in 1969? Once y'all have it figured out hopefully I'll be able to accommodate it.
That's interesting. I wonder if this has something to do with the 336xx cowl tags in 68 and 69. As far as the factory was concerned, these were trimmed out as Cutlass S models. Still, all the documentation in the inspectors guides and the PIM don't refer to W29 at all in these years.
I always figured there was something 442 specific that must have been installed at Fisher. Originally I thought it was the 442 trunk emblem but then someone pointed out that the Cutlass emblem used the same holes. It may have been the dash pinstripe, not sure...
I always figured there was something 442 specific that must have been installed at Fisher. Originally I thought it was the 442 trunk emblem but then someone pointed out that the Cutlass emblem used the same holes. It may have been the dash pinstripe, not sure...
After thinking about this overnight, here's my theory - and that's all it is, I make no claim that I have any proof of this.
In the 1968-69 model years, 442s got unique VINs, but still had 336xx cowl tags. The VIN did not get assigned until the body shell was mated to the frame, so until that time there was no way to know if a shell was a Cutlass S or 442 from the cowl tag. I'm guessing that the W29 notation on the broadcast cards was to document that this particular shell was destined to become a 442 and not a Cutlass S. As noted, I'm not sure why that mattered, exactly (well, in 1969 the trunklid piercing for the 442 emblems was definitely different). The dash and glovebox door got installed later, so that wasn't it. In 1968 the 442s got the dash and outside pinstripes, so that may be one reason.
After thinking about this overnight, here's my theory - and that's all it is, I make no claim that I have any proof of this.
In the 1968-69 model years, 442s got unique VINs, but still had 336xx cowl tags. The VIN did not get assigned until the body shell was mated to the frame, so until that time there was no way to know if a shell was a Cutlass S or 442 from the cowl tag. I'm guessing that the W29 notation on the broadcast cards was to document that this particular shell was destined to become a 442 and not a Cutlass S. As noted, I'm not sure why that mattered, exactly (well, in 1969 the trunklid piercing for the 442 emblems was definitely different). The dash and glovebox door got installed later, so that wasn't it. In 1968 the 442s got the dash and outside pinstripes, so that may be one reason.
In any auto final assembly plant, I've been in (Both Lansing and Linden) the drive train is in the chassis before the body is dropped on. In1968-69 the partial vin is on the motor and trans. So. I'm thinking the vin tag is already on the dash when the body meets the frame.
It (the vin tag.) has to be installed before the windshield I would think?
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In any auto final assembly plant, I've been in (Both Lansing and Linden) the drive train is in the chassis before the body is dropped on. In1968-69 the partial vin is on the motor and trans. So. I'm thinking the vin tag is already on the dash when the body meets the frame.
It (the vin tag.) has to be installed before the windshield I would think?
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OK, but my point was that the VIN was not assigned at Fisher.
Then you have the Fremont cars with 344 cowl tag & VIN.
That's documented. I remember tossing my data card I found under the rear seat carpet. Didn't realize what I had...duh. Young and dumb for those asking why it hit the trash. circa 1985. Too bad as this car is a very early production car with a number of early build anomalies. Be interesting to see what the card said.
I wish I could go back to that day and toss it into the glove box with the POP and manual when I installed the buckets/console. This was/is a survivor type of car.
I do remember quite a few line cards in junkyard cars at the heyday of my junking adventures. Everything was preserved well in California.
Could the line cards offer instruction to the workers to specific things like M40, column or console shifted which dictated a specific speedo & column, 4 speed vs Auto, C60, etc...things that would make certain things specific to say an AC car?
Then you have the Fremont cars with 344 cowl tag & VIN.
Actually, each of the assembly plants transitioned to using the 344xx cowl tags at different times. I've seen 1968 Oshawa cars with the 344xx cowl tag. Ironically, Lansing was the last to switch over. My April 69 H/O still has a 336xx tag.
I wonder if the 442 was still referred to as W29 internally during the time it was a separate model. This is the issue with using manufacturing codes for sales names.
Actually, each of the assembly plants transitioned to using the 344xx cowl tags at different times. I've seen 1968 Oshawa cars with the 344xx cowl tag. Ironically, Lansing was the last to switch over. My April 69 H/O still has a 336xx tag.
Are you sure of the early 366 on the Hurst? If so I may have sold one way way to cheap. I was sure it was a clone
This thread is of particular interest to me as I owned this car for nearly 30 years and sold it to the OP. I just happened to stumble upon this thread today as I don't log in here very often.
I bought this car in 1991 and was shocked to see how many factory options this car had, some which are not so common.
The car came with a ton of documentation which I passed along to the current owner.
Let me know if anyone needs any additional info that I might be able to provide.
Here is a picture of the cowl tag for those folks who are much better versed at this stuff than I could ever hope to be. I can assure you that this IS a real 442 and not an S.
As this thread is resurrected, and I re-read through it, I had to laugh! We had a fantastic discussion on the minutia, but we never answered the OP's questions. How many were there? And what were the included options/bells & whistles?
As far as I am concerned the W29 meant the 442 option, even though it was its own model in 68-71. I have seen a couple of other cards on 69 442's that show W29.
Joe P did already post the production numbers for 69 442's so I'd say that his numbers would answer the question as to how many W29 cars were built, as I believe that the W29 simply indicated 442.
Joe P did already post the production numbers for 69 442's so I'd say that his numbers would answer the question as to how many W29 cars were built, as I believe that the W29 simply indicated 442.
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Whoops! You are correct! I totally missed the figures Joe quoted when I glanced over the scans of the documents. Thanks!
FWIW, my 69 H/O has H/O emblems with a 442 VIN, along with a Cutlass 33687 body plate build week of 03D. It was made that way. All the build sheets I've ever seen for 69 442 showed an asterisk next to RPOs that were deemed "included" with the W29 required RPO when ordering a 442 along with a VIN of 344(6,7,8)7. Although listed and sold as a separate model, they still treated the W29 cars at assembly as an optional package.
They did a similar thing later as well with 80s Calais and Salon packages for the RWD Cutlass. When Y78 RPO was ordered, it actually changed the VIN body style code to signify that package. For example, the 1985 GR47 Supreme code got changed to a GK47 Salon code when Y78 was ordered, to which then a W42 package could be piled on top of that, changing the engine code in the VIN to a 9, thus being able to determine a car was an H/O or 442 or not simply by the VIN.
FWIW, my 69 H/O has H/O emblems with a 442 VIN, along with a Cutlass 33687 body plate build week of 03D. It was made that way. All the build sheets I've ever seen for 69 442 showed an asterisk next to RPOs that were deemed "included" with the W29 required RPO when ordering a 442 along with a VIN of 344(6,7,8)7. Although listed and sold as a separate model, they still treated the W29 cars at assembly as an optional package.
They did a similar thing later as well with 80s Calais and Salon packages for the RWD Cutlass. When Y78 RPO was ordered, it actually changed the VIN body style code to signify that package. For example, the 1985 GR47 Supreme code got changed to a GK47 Salon code when Y78 was ordered, to which then a W42 package could be piled on top of that, changing the engine code in the VIN to a 9, thus being able to determine a car was an H/O or 442 or not simply by the VIN.
Every build sheet has asterisks next to the RPO codes that are base equipment with that model.
Every build sheet has asterisks next to the RPO codes that are base equipment with that model.
Not exactly. It was included equipment RPOs for that particular car of that particular model, including any applicable option package(s). Because even the 1969 W29 was an option RPO on that list with an asterisk, which simply meant it was a required option when the dealer submitted an order for a 442. Interestingly, for 1970, the W29 RPO itself didn't even make an appearance on the build sheets and returned, sans asterisk, for 1972, yet included asterisked RPOs only found when W29 was ordered, not just options for that model Cutlass.
Imagine the W32 cars and the lacking docs because they were late availability…..
Contrary to what people seem to think, anything that came off the assembly line had full documentation. The factory was not set up to build cars randomly. There were released engineering documents, production planning, and procedures for each option.
Contrary to what people seem to think, anything that came off the assembly line had full documentation. The factory was not set up to build cars randomly. There were released engineering documents, production planning, and procedures for each option.
right, but even in the docs above you posted, no mention of W32….
If I remember correctly when I had my HO, the assembly manual had write in changes for the axle codes and other items that were late add ins from early production docs…
End of year documentation products seem to do a better job of covering what was available.
right, but even in the docs above you posted, no mention of W32….
Because the updated inspector guide and associated change pages for the dealer pricing sheets haven't been uploaded to the web. In any case, the 1969 W32 configuration is shown in both the PIM and the Engine Assembly Manual for that year.
If I remember correctly when I had my HO, the assembly manual had write in changes for the axle codes and other items that were late add ins from early production docs…
End of year documentation products seem to do a better job of covering what was available.
This is why factory documentation typically has a date on it. Kinda difficult for something published early in the model year to include an option that didn't exist at the time. There was precious little advertising about the W32, just the one magazine ad that I've seen, but the engineering documents cover it. And rest assured that the dealers received a pricing sheet update with the cost info. There was also this press release (and yeah, I realize there is no date on it).
That looks familiar for the manual, I thought those were in the updated ones that I had for my 69.
important for people buying reprints to make sure they have the newest ones in case they have a spring production car.
isnt it funny that the W32 couldn’t get air conditioning but was able to get power brakes. The manual cam vacuum allows for the power brakes but why no air…must be those mandatory 3.91 or steeper gears.. they sure did not want those compressors spinning high rpm.
Because the updated inspector guide and associated change pages for the dealer pricing sheets haven't been uploaded to the web. In any case, the 1969 W32 configuration is shown in both the PIM and the Engine Assembly Manual for that year.
It's too bad the W32 introduction letter doesn't have a date because the TITLE of this PIM page was revised with revision "B" (December something, I can't read the actual date) and I'm guessing W32 was what was changed. Unlike most engineering documents, Olds didn't cloud the PIM's with what was actually changed, they just lettered the general area (the circled "B" above the title block in this case)
Last edited by allyolds68; March 10th, 2023 at 01:16 PM.
I believe you're correct regarding the addition of 35W32 which occurred on 12-19-68 annotated below FIRST USED 1969 (referencing same as 35W30 & 35W31). More or less coincides with the timing of the letter Joe posted.
EDIT: Well, I guess "...coincides with the timing of the letter Joe posted..." is not correct since Joe's letter doesn't have a date.
Last edited by Vintage Chief; March 10th, 2023 at 01:23 PM.
Reason: date change
That looks familiar for the manual, I thought those were in the updated ones that I had for my 69.
important for people buying reprints to make sure they have the newest ones in case they have a spring production car.
isnt it funny that the W32 couldn’t get air conditioning but was able to get power brakes. The manual cam vacuum allows for the power brakes but why no air…must be those mandatory 3.91 or steeper gears.. they sure did not want those compressors spinning high rpm.
In this case, the unavailability of A/C had nothing to do with the cam and everything to do with the O.A.I. system. The 1968 H/O was the only 68/69 O.A.I. car ever offered with A/C, and that required Demmer to beat the hell out of the air cleaner adapter to clear the A/C compressor bracket. If you've ever looked at the air cleaner from one of these cars, the underside has been "clearanced" with a two pound sledge.
February 6th, 2022, 02:10 PM
