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I'm still tweaking my new trans but am having an issue. A couple issues, really.
1. It seems in order to get the pressures/shift points I want, I lose WOT. Starting fresh; move carb linkage to WOT, pull TV cable tight tight, tighten down. With this setting my idle-park pressure is way low, 45-50 psi. When I preload the cable to 65-70 psi I get later, firmer, better shifts but I can't turn the carb linkage to WOT. Wrong TV spring maybe? Need a better booster valve? I'm not sure what's in there.
2. IF I want to skip any kind of auto lockup, (just an IF), and just use a toggle switch, would it simply be 12v to pigtail (through the switch) and ground from pigtail to ground source, bypassing the vacuum switch?
What kind of carb? What are you using for brackets and linkage? Sounds like something isnt right in the valve body, line pressure shouldn't go lower than about 90psi, even with the tv cable disconnected.
I'm using this bracket on a mid eighties Q-jet with the correct linkage. Geometry looks good to me.
Is that 90 psi a stock value? Although this trans isn't supposed to be stock a mild shift kit), I've read on a couple of sites that park/idle should be between 60-80 psi.
from what I have read, you want the correct geometry on the lever, you want the pressure to jump as soon as the cable is pulled, and the plunger should be fully depressed at wot.
Last edited by TexasT; June 10th, 2016 at 10:30 AM.
Reason: added
Thanks Tex. Yes, I have that diagram printed and eyeballing it, I'm coming close. But again, in order to reach WOT I have to have the tv cable too loose in my opinion. I get an immediate pressure jump with the slightest movement of the throttle but the shifts come too soon and too soft, even at half throttle. I'll keep playing with it. Unfortunately I disconnected the pressure gauge because it was leaking a little. I thought maybe that was the pressure loss but it wasn't. I'll have to get that hooked up again.
Right now I'm adding a lighted switch (blue, lol) and going full manual control over the overdrive. I can always add the pressure switch and brake switch later if I feel I need them.
another diagram.
what code vb and governor are you using? Do you have a pic of the tag on the trans and are the vb and gov original to the trans.
trying to mix and match the gov and vb can result in poor and undesirable shifting and shift points. And some of the low performance and diesel stuff has low shift points built right in
Last edited by TexasT; June 10th, 2016 at 12:50 PM.
Reason: added
THe tag is pretty marred but I can get the KCF out of the serial. It was blue, or so it seems. '86 Caddy is what the interweb says. As for your other questions, I'll have to ask the builder but I'm pretty sure it's the original valve body and governor.
My problem right now is that I can't get the TC to unlock. I even bypassed the vacuum switch altogether (bad idea?) and went with a lighted toggle switch. It still won't unlock. I pulled over, turned off the car and pulled the power to the toggle; still locked! Looks like I have more homework to do.
I don't know you or your mechanical abilities, but if I were you I'd hit some wrecking yards in your area and look at the Cadillac section to get an AA code trans. You need the vb and the governor. If you are comfortable dropping the vb and swapping it and the gov, you can get a lock up solenoid while you are there. There are a couple mods I would also recommend if you decide to go this route and it can be done with the trans in the car.
what servo are you using, what other mods were done? Boost valves, springs and such?
Thanks for the ideas. But to have a better understanding of what's what, check out this thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...rs-review.html
I just had this thing "built", supposedly. Shift kit, TCI lockup kit, billet direct drum, hardened stator, etc, etc. I wish I knew what the etc's were. I didn't get a build sheet or anything like that.
Well then, I'd take it to whom ever did the assembly and ask nicely what they were going to do to make it right. I went through 2004r hell when my car was new. Three different dealers worked on it and it never worked right. The zone rep canceled my warranty after nine tries. Been frontin' from my pocket since. One of the reasons I assembled my own. I sure got a lot of excuses why it didn't shift or why is was so lazy or why it wouldn't shift. So I read every thing I could and did one myself. Am I a guru, not even close but I try to help every one I can as several helped me I I think it is only right.
Last edited by TexasT; June 10th, 2016 at 06:39 PM.
I all reality we don't know what is in there other than a sizeable chunk of your money. If the place you got it from wont do anything, I know I have some proven(remember I'm cheap so they are inexpensive too), ways to do it and it begins with that AA vb and governor. I hope the direct clutches were set up tight and the servo was clearances properly. If not the end shift isn't going to be good.
I actually feel better knowing that I'm not the only one. Weird thing is; I'm now text-buddies with the fellow that built it. He seems like a good guy and has answered a lot of questions for me since I brought it home. But he doesn't speak very good english so the questions have to be simple and even then I often don't understand his answers. But what the heck, I should ask him if I have the original VB and governor, yes? You're thinking they're not original to the trans or not well matched, is that correct?
However, here's where I'm at right now: I'm 99% sure I have a sticky TCC solenoid. It unlocks fine when cool, won't unlock after a few miles of being locked. SOunds like an easy enough fix. Also sounds like a very common problem. But I am curious if it's usually replaced during a rebuild.
Since I'll have the pan off (after sucking most of the fluid out of the dipstick tube, I'm not taking another fluid bath this summer!) I'll get a good look at the TV geometry/action. While I'm in there should I replace the boost valve with a .500? Could that be my low-ish pressure problem when the TV cable allows WOT? Right now I have the TCC unstuck and the TV adjusted for 70 psi in park at 650 rpm idle and it runs and shifts pretty nicely....BUT, I don't have WOT. I can't get the carb linkage to turn far enough to come close to hitting the stop.
I do appreciate your help, Tex. If you even had a quick look at my engine refresh thread (in my sig), you know I'm learning as I go. Is MDchanic still hanging around CO? I haven't heard from him. Maybe he's not a trans kinda' guy. I mean transMISSION kinda' guy. Funny how word meanings change.
If any decent shift kit was installed, it should have the .500" boost valve already in it. I find the same thing, ideal shifts and full throttle are tough to achieve. The sticking solenoid is very common, replace it. I was going to try that TCI kit, I will install the manual overrides just in case, one of the thing I really like about that kit.
I don't know if anything "decent" was included in this build or not but if I have a .500 booster, then there is something wrong. I'm reading about guys getting 200 psi in park at idle with a .500 valve. Unless they're pulling their TV cable way too tight.
I have to say, in the three years since I started this project, this trans has had the most conflicting info on the internet.
@Rich: that tvmadeez site seems really legit. I've read all the articles a few times since I started this. It doesn't say anything specifically about not reaching WOT but it hints at it with the LSS (long spring syndrome).
I drove the car early this morning, took her out on route 66. Shifting and feeling pretty good. Again, not locking it up until I change the solenoid, and no WOT.
I think I'm in a place where I can start tearing out the rear and preparing for the gear change. The car's kind of a turd with 2.56 gears and a 2500 stall.
Mac what are your pressures at idle in each gear and 1500 rpm? Your gear swap will make a massive difference. Here were the pressures I had. I added a .555" boost valve and Sonnax spring in place of the Trans Go .500" boost valve.
OK so here are my pressures, no park with my current shifter.
Reverse-120 at idle, 270 full TV pull, revving it up
Neutral-100 at idle and 210 full TV pull and revving it up
OD and 3,2,1- 70 at idle and 185 revved up and full TV pull, up to 220 psi with the .555" boost valve.
I will be using a different TV that locks better, I want max TV pull at full throttle. The factory style cable was way off giving maximum TV pull. Took it out with the different cable, full throttle and full pull. Around 80 at idle and 180 full throttle through the gears. I get about 230 in manual low. 130 and 280 in reverse. I read the .555 boost valve is better than .570 valve. It made a nice difference, 180 psi to 220 psi.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; June 11th, 2016 at 10:02 PM.
To be honest 307, I haven't measured my pressures since I nailed it down. I pulled the gauge because it was leaking. I have quite a bit of preload on the cable so according to tvmadeez, I'm not in danger of any damage. And it's shifting pretty good; tight and well spaced, although 4th seems a little late.
When I drop the pan to replace the solenoid I'll get the gauge hooked back up. The lockup not unlocking threw me for quite a loop. I spent a lot of time trying different wiring configurations before discovering it was an internal problem.
Right now I'm going to focus on getting the gear swap done; including all the bushings, cleaning, and painting.
Thanks for your pressure readings. It gives me something to compare to.
Also good information and one of the only sites that outlines a break-in procedure. I'm glad I read this before I went out and stomped the gas pedal a few hundred times.
I seem to recall seeing a kit in the back of a TransStar catalog to band-aid the TV cable. It consisted of a replacement connector that clipped onto the carburetor lever, and a small spring. The idea is to keep some tension on the tv cable at part.throttle, and at wot the spring coil binds and allows max pressure. I still believe something is mismatched either with the valve body or tv system. If you have the proper carb lever, cable brackets, and everything's adjusted and insalled.correcty it.should work fine.
Gives you a ball park for pressures and the fluid looked clean the last time I was in there, almost no fiber. I have found the fourth gear shift late on these trans, have owned 3. I will be pulling the pan again to install the TCI kit later this year.
Also good information and one of the only sites that outlines a break-in procedure. I'm glad I read this before I went out and stomped the gas pedal a few hundred times.
Try and not stomping on the gas peddle a few hundred times, to get longest life out of everything LOL This message was brought to you by the voice of experience..
I seem to recall seeing a kit in the back of a TransStar catalog to band-aid the TV cable. It consisted of a replacement connector that clipped onto the carburetor lever, and a small spring. The idea is to keep some tension on the tv cable at part.throttle, and at wot the spring coil binds and allows max pressure. I still believe something is mismatched either with the valve body or tv system. If you have the proper carb lever, cable brackets, and everything's adjusted and insalled.correcty it.should work fine.
Interesting idea but it does seem like a band-aid. Of course I can't be 100% sure I have the geometry right, it sure looks right. And with a mid 80's carb that was paired with a 200-4r and a bracket that lines it all up real nice, I'm not sure what else I could do. It couldn't have anything to do with the adjustable outer cable housing, could it? I mean, the inner cable length is the inner cable length and shouldn't be effected by the sheathing.
Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
Gives you a ball park for pressures and the fluid looked clean the last time I was in there, almost no fiber. I have found the fourth gear shift late on these trans, have owned 3. I will be pulling the pan again to install the TCI kit later this year.
What lockup system are you using now?
Originally Posted by Firewalker
Try and not stomping on the gas peddle a few hundred times, to get longest life out of everything LOL This message was brought to you by the voice of experience..
And I should make a delicious chocolate cake and not eat it. Not going to happen! Lol. I bought this car to re-live my idiotic teen years and I'm doing just that.
I had the Painless setup, didn't work right. I am just running a toggle switch. I see the TCI can lock it out with switch or manually lock it up plus automatic lock up with adjustment. I will be running 3.90 gears with posi in the Type O rear. I am also dropping my compression from 9.5 to 1 to just around 9 to 1 with different #6 heads with 2.05"/1.56" valves and thinner .028" head gaskets. I want regular gas used and non limited timing for mileage. Planning on running stock manifolds and the factory 2.25" exhaust without tail pipes vs headers and 2.5" duals. I'm not sure the four blade solid fan is enough to cool even with the redone 3 core rad as I am running slightly under driven aluminum pulleys. If I do run my electric it will get the expensive controls. Just want the 70S more Wife and Daughters friendly than my 88 CSC. Should not have asked me a question Mac.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; June 12th, 2016 at 07:23 AM.
Lol, I like hearing what other folks are doing. Although most of what I read here is reversing what you are doing.
I wish I could give a review of the TCI kit but with the solenoid sticking, it would be kind of tough. I thought I was really having a problem with the vacuum switch (I put it on my firewall for ease of access) so I bypassed it and put a lighted rocker switch in the dash for full manual control. That's when I figured out it wasn't me. Go figure. The few minutes the rocker switch worked before the solenoid stuck again, on route 66, moderate traffic, it was kind of a pain really. I must have hit that switch 10 times in five minutes. Once I get the solenoid swapped, I'll have the vacuum switch, rocker switch, and I'll add the brake switch for safety.
But the gears come first. That's my montra right now, lol. Gears first, gears first!
Lol, I like hearing what other folks are doing. Although most of what I read here is reversing what you are doing.
I wish I could give a review of the TCI kit but with the solenoid sticking, it would be kind of tough. I thought I was really having a problem with the vacuum switch (I put it on my firewall for ease of access) so I bypassed it and put a lighted rocker switch in the dash for full manual control. That's when I figured out it wasn't me. Go figure. The few minutes the rocker switch worked before the solenoid stuck again, on route 66, moderate traffic, it was kind of a pain really. I must have hit that switch 10 times in five minutes. Once I get the solenoid swapped, I'll have the vacuum switch, rocker switch, and I'll add the brake switch for safety.
But the gears come first. That's my montra right now, lol. Gears first, gears first!
Check on the link I provided for the OTHER possible causes. Maybe you will get lucky.
I just want the 70 to remain easy to drive. It will be cruiser that will see the 1/8 mile a few times every year. Going from 2.56 to 3.42 gears netted me .6 in the 1/8 mile. Even though i am slightly detuning my 350, the no trouble driving and going to 3.90 gear will add performance and enjoyment.
I just want the 70 to remain easy to drive. It will be cruiser that will see the 1/8 mile a few times every year. Going from 2.56 to 3.42 gears netted me .6 in the 1/8 mile. Even though i am slightly detuning my 350, the no trouble driving and going to 3.90 gear will add performance and enjoyment.
You should be less than 2500 at 70, with that combo and a 26.6 inch tire.
All I know is that with 2.56 gears, TC locked, running about 65 felt like it was idling, lol. I was under 2k, that's for sure. But that's about to change. I've got the car on stands and will start disassembling the rear within the hour.
The Olds Gmail calculator is also spot on. Most of the 2004R trans have the black 27 tooth driven gear. I used the 10 tooth green gear as the TCI calculator said and my speedo was spot on, according to GPS.
At 1800 he should see about 63, but maybe he is off a little on tire height. Unlocked it would be about 60.9 at 1800 give or take, according to the calculator I posted.
June 9th, 2016, 08:04 PM
Well then, I'd take it to whom ever did the assembly and ask nicely what they were going to do to make it right. I went through 2004r hell when my car was new. Three different dealers worked on it and it never worked right. The zone rep canceled my warranty after nine tries. Been frontin' from my pocket since. One of the reasons I assembled my own. I sure got a lot of excuses why it didn't shift or why is was so lazy or why it wouldn't shift. So I read every thing I could and did one myself. Am I a guru, not even close but I try to help every one I can as several helped me I I think it is only right.
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