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Diesel block or gas block with band aid for higher power
Looked at a Olds diesel blocks for the first time, up close and personal. As the old lady, from the commercial years ago! Where is the beef? It's on the bottom end of the diesel blocks at least! Why put money into a gas 350. Adding straps, halo, grdle, etc. To hope the bottom end does not grenade. I could see most of the obstacles to convert. Which I can do myself without the machine shop. No one will see anyway.as they are internal. It will not look pretty, but will function. Have the machine shop do the normal work you would for a gas block. Some parts from RR made for the diesel block. And new rotating assembly. Using parts from my existing engine. Heads, intake , etc.
My car is setup to take around 600 HP, 650 TQ. Add body stiffeners, Extreme Automatic 2004r Stage 2, beefed up 10 bolt 8.5 rear (will replace if beakes). Electric fans, elect fuel pump, elect water pump, Powermaster XS starter, oil pressure switch to elect fuel pump, davies-craig digital gauge thermatic fan / EWP switch kit, Air/ Fuel meter. Bernard Mondello Speedmaster heads, Edelbrock 7111 ported by me to match heads. Big brakes, suspension upgrades. To me anything 700 HP and over on the street. Inexperienced guys are wrecking and killing themselves.
I am not an engine builder. Have assembled some engines. A few lawn mowers, mini bikes, motorcycles, Nissan 4 banger and the 350 SBO in my car now. Done in 2011 and still alive. Nothing special in the internals..Not that I drive her all the time or serious racing. But not gentle on her either. Taken the engine more than a fews times passed the 6k rpm. But never over 6.5k, each time waiting for it to blow up.
Had a engine builder in Charlotte NC. Do the short block, who did a F**KED UP job. And not put in what I wanted. I disassembled and check everything. Fixing what I found wrong. Guess I did a OK job.
The general consensus is 650 hp for a 350 gas block. On the old ROP, one guy had 900+ hp turbo using a 350 gas block. He had light parts and full girdle and built a diesel block for when it died. That is like playing catch with a grenade, it could go boom at any minute😁. I am building a 350 gas block mainly from parts collected for a 403 build. I don't want the overheating and flimsy block issues. I am hoping for 450/450 with Mahle 2618 forged pistons in a 4.065" bore with a 1.55" compression height, Scat sbc 6" long, 2" journal with a 330 offset ground 330 crank, 6000 rpm max. I collected a 1/2" 4 main CNC Halo girdle, it is going on. The Halo may just be a handy handle to lift out what is left of your block. It really depends on the power goals and planned rpm. Hopefully some of the experts chime in,.
The devil in the diesel is the crank. You can run the D crank but good luck reaching your horsepower goals with 350ci. Parallel option is main bearing spacers with 2.5” journal 330 crank=$$$ and limited benefit.
Next option is 425 crank, like Pee Wee Herman said, “ might as well stroke it if ya got it.” That’s a $1k-1.5k expense by the time all the appropriate work is done. Stroker custom crank is the best option but again, lotsa greenbacks. Good news is that I think Mark Remmel has that angle covered with a reasonably priced offering, under $2k iirc, crankshaft suppliers can do some really slick pieces but those are $3k range. Maybe some of the other Olds specialists have a crank or rotating assy available but not sure.
Would it pay to use Bearing Spacers for 350 forged crankshaft in the diesel? Bill T. DX block 4 bolt steel main caps 2.5". Lighting the rotating assembly, less friction? Full girdle must cost at least $2,500 installed for a gas block. Put that towards the diesel block. Would like to go at least 7,000 rpm.
High revs shifting with Lighting Rods is a thrill ride for me!! Gas pedal to the floor, never let up. Move the shifter 1/2'' and instantaneous to next gear. It just really jumps up and tears ***. I guess ask any racer with Lenco shifter.
Would it pay to use Bearing Spacers for 350 forged crankshaft in the diesel? Bill T. DX block 4 bolt steel main caps 2.5". Lighting the rotating assembly, less friction? Full girdle must cost at least $2,500 installed for a gas block. Put that towards the diesel block. Would like to go at least 7,000 rpm.
High revs shifting with Lighting Rods is a thrill ride for me!! Gas pedal to the floor, never let up. Move the shifter 1/2'' and instantaneous to next gear. It just really jumps up and tears ***. I guess ask any racer with Lenco shifter.
No such thing as a forged “350” crank, technically it’s really a 330 crank.
Bill and others don’t really want to fool with spacers anymore seeing as how you can machine a 400/425 crank, buy my billet stroker crank or have someone like Bryant or Moldex do one for you.
The downside to using the bigger main is the added bearing speed. The upside to the bigger main is that it makes the crank even stronger. However either way even a diesel block will most likely break before any aftermarket crank does.
No such thing as a forged “350” crank, technically it’s really a 330 crank.
Bill and others don’t really want to fool with spacers anymore seeing as how you can machine a 400/425 crank, buy my billet stroker crank or have someone like Bryant or Moldex do one for you.
The downside to using the bigger main is the added bearing speed. The upside to the bigger main is that it makes the crank even stronger. However either way even a diesel block will most likely break before any aftermarket crank does.
I know you said what the weight of each of your canks some place on here? Spinning the 3'' mains cranks to 7,000 rpm in D or DX possible with your max length billet stroker with your rods and pistons? Rotating assembly is lighter and stronger. 4 bolt mains or two bolts mains. I always get the thickest best push rods.
I know you said what the weight of each of your canks some place on here? Spinning the 3'' mains cranks to 7,000 rpm in D or DX possible with your max length billet stroker with your rods and pistons? Rotating assembly is lighter and stronger. 4 bolt mains or two bolts mains. I always get the thickest best push rods.
About 56# for the smaller main, most likely low 60’s for the large main.
7k would be real doable with these cranks but if it quits making power well below that then it’s a waste.
That .937 Lifter is solid only you know right?
And it’s not quite that easy. You’ll need a reamer that’s close to .937 then they get honed to size. You need to remove the tool marks etc. so you can’t go right to .937.
link is broken. Can't even copy paste.
Interesting with using a bigger lifter
I am not a engine builder. Bill calls out Mechanical roller and Hydraulic roller cam. A little confusing what he is saying to me.at first. Short video of riming lifter bore on there. I am sure its not cheap. But rollers.
Also adding blower. I be happy with just an 100 HP shot.NOS.
BT - It is a hydraulic roller cam. Running a mechanical roller lifter at 0 lash. I can assure you, it won't collapse, it won't stick, it will be more reliable, the engine will rev higher, and it will make more power. Win, win.
You can run mechanical lifters on a cam designed for hydraulic lifters. You get a bit more duration than with the hydraulic and it's a bit more mild than a cam designed for solid lifters. It's a trick that's sometimes useful if the cam lobe you want is only available as a hydraulic but you want, or are limited to, a solid lifter.
Note that when folks say a "hydraulic" cam or a "solid" cam, they're referring to some design details of the lobe. Solid lobes are more aggressive than hydraulic lobes because hydraulic lifters need softer ramps to take care of the plunger and bits inside the lifter. No bits in the solid lifter, so the designer can have more fun.
Yeah, I bet going up in lifter side is "easier" than bushing down, but "easier" is a relative term......
Some folks are using the stock .921 roller lifters. They're fine if your cam profile is mild enough.
You can run mechanical lifters on a cam designed for hydraulic lifters. You get a bit more duration than with the hydraulic and it's a bit more mild than a cam designed for solid lifters. It's a trick that's sometimes useful if the cam lobe you want is only available as a hydraulic but you want, or are limited to, a solid lifter.
Note that when folks say a "hydraulic" cam or a "solid" cam, they're referring to some design details of the lobe. Solid lobes are more aggressive than hydraulic lobes because hydraulic lifters need softer ramps to take care of the plunger and bits inside the lifter. No bits in the solid lifter, so the designer can have more fun.
Yeah, I bet going up in lifter side is "easier" than bushing down, but "easier" is a relative term......
Some folks are using the stock .921 roller lifters. They're fine if your cam profile is mild enough.
Just saying, for you all out guys and drag racers who want roller lifters.
Me personally I am fine with the hydraulic lifter non -roller .921 in a DX build. With around 550 HP and a shot of NOS. Just do not want the bottom end to grenade. Not big on the band aids trying to hold it together on gas blocks.
Another thing. Guys on the Olds Diesel & Diesel websites. Talk about the "D" block threaded holes for heads and mains not drilled and taped deep enough. Causing problems. Have you engine builder seem that?
Just saying, for you all out guys and drag racers who want roller lifters.
Me personally I am fine with the hydraulic lifter non -roller .921 in a DX build. With around 550 HP and a shot of NOS. Just do not want the bottom end to grenade. Not big on the band aids trying to hold it together on gas blocks.
Another thing. Guys on the Olds Diesel & Diesel websites. Talk about the "D" block threaded holes for heads and mains not drilled and taped deep enough. Causing problems. Have you engine builder seem that?
The man to talk to is Mark, he is a guru when it comes to Olds
Just saying, for you all out guys and drag racers who want roller lifters.
Me personally I am fine with the hydraulic lifter non -roller .921 in a DX build. With around 550 HP and a shot of NOS. Just do not want the bottom end to grenade. Not big on the band aids trying to hold it together on gas blocks.
Another thing. Guys on the Olds Diesel & Diesel websites. Talk about the "D" block threaded holes for heads and mains not drilled and taped deep enough. Causing problems. Have you engine builder seem that?
The diesel had 22:1 compression. Way too much for the standard head bolt. Would stretch and blow head gaskets, even snap bolts.
Turing it to a gas block, won't have issues. Use ARP studs too boot
I have 450 HP and 490 TQ in my sons 350 block from 73. Just under 9.5:1 compression and using ARP bolts.
So you bump 100 more HP, don't see an issue. I be more worried with rotating assembly
"D" block threaded holes for heads and mains not drilled and taped deep enough? Easy fix, drill and tap. I thinking of the all out guys. Not worried on my future build. Understanding 22:1 compression problem and rotating assembly.
Another thing interesting thing that BT using is aluminium rods. Not your father's aluminium rods. New type. Huge money? Not for me! Other than education. And like anything else, you have to take it with a grain of salt.
"D" block threaded holes for heads and mains not drilled and taped deep enough? Easy fix, drill and tap. I thinking of the all out guys. Not worried on my future build. Understanding 22:1 compression problem and rotating assembly.
Another thing interesting thing that BT using is aluminium rods. Not your father's aluminium rods. New type. Huge money? Not for me! Other than education. And like anything else, you have to take it with a grain of salt.
Bearings look cool but aluminium rods? Not sold on those.
Titanium yes
Bruce has them in his offset ground 425 crank BBO. They didn't fail despite pistons being destroyed from a valve coming apart. As you know, everything is a far drive on the Prairies and even Bill Travato questions using them on something being drove hundreds of miles at a time. Yeah, I can imagine how much Titanium rods cost, chi ching$$$. Good steel rods are way lighter and stronger than stock, guess it depends on your RPM goals.
A few things;
New style/material aluminum rods are fine for the street, no matter what Trovato says.
BUT aluminum rods are really best suited to high boost and/or serious nitrous applications as they absorb shock better than a steel rod.
Yes I’m aware the .937 Lifter is a solid, I wasn’t sure if you did. However when using that or any solid lifter on a lobe designed for a Hyd, a few things come into play. One is you lose effective duration when going from a Hyd to a solid. Second different profiles and parts combinations will dictate lash. It’s not really 0.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
I got a interesting phone call today from the builder of this Olds stroker, seems a engine assembler on these Olds forums would like "supporting data" on the dyno testing of this engine, hmmm very interesting. It seems there is a question as too the 1.38 per inch TQ out put, I looked at the data supplied and it seems inline to me.
December 21st, 2020, 10:10 AM
