Weaver

I am 26 years old and am very new to the classic car scene. I have a 69 cutlass with the 350 in it I just got about 3 weeks ago. I had a leak in the gas tank so I ordered a new one and replaced it since I couldnt afford the 400 bux the auto shop wanted to put it in.

Besides that my wiring skills caused the fuel gauge to stop working(it goes all the way to 3 oclock and does not move.). I fired it up and it died while I was driving about a mile away. I thought maybe I didnt put enough gas in it so I went to the gas station added a half tank and it fired right up. I made it about a half mile after idling at a light for about 3 minutes when it died going about 40 - 45. It woudnt start after that and I got it towed. It turns over and I am getting juice from the battery. Honestly my first thought was that it was overheating. The gauges are broke so I couldnt tell. I apologize that I cannot explain this better but I am a very amateur car guy. There are no coolant leaks, no smoke, and the car starts. The top radiator hose was hot so I dont think the thermostat is bad.

Could the tank replacement have anything to do with this siince it ran fine before? It is getting gas, I can see it in the fuel filter chamber.

Any ideas would help, I just dont have the money for a high auto shop bill right now. Very dissapointing since I missed the good guys car show here in Columbus Ohio. Thanks

MDchanic

Did you change the fuel hoses that connect the tank to the fuel lines?

- Eric

jaunty75

This means that you have an open in the fuel gauge circuit. Perhaps you didn't reconnect the ground when you put the sending unit back in after replacing the tank? Or perhaps you left some other part of the wiring disconnected?

Weaver

Yes I did. There was one hose that connected the tank to the fuel line that was about six inches long and two others that were the same length that connected from the tank to the plastic exhaust piece.

Weaver

The guy at advanced auto said it was okay to just cut the ground wire and splice it back together (it was soldered close to the tank lock ring so I couldnt get the tank off without cutting it). I was told after that, that wasnt a good idea. I tried splicing it but it still doesnt work. Do I have to run a whole new line or do you have an idea?

Octania

I am 26 years old and am very new to the classic car scene. I have a 69 cutlass with the 350 in it I just got about 3 weeks ago. I had a leak in the gas tank so I ordered a new one and replaced it since I couldnt afford the 400 bux the auto shop wanted to put it in.

Besides that my wiring skills caused the fuel gauge to stop working(it goes all the way to 3 oclock and does not move.). I fired it up and it died while I was driving about a mile away. I thought maybe I didnt put enough gas in it so I went to the gas station added a half tank and it fired right up.
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so, it fixed itself... for a minute?

I made it about a half mile after idling at a light for about 3 minutes when it died going about 40 - 45. It woudnt start after that and I got it towed. It turns over and I am getting juice from the battery.
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so, starting system and battery are OK. Each system is more or less independent. Are you aware of the 4 basic things the engine needs to run?


Honestly my first thought was that it was overheating. The gauges are broke so I couldnt tell. I apologize that I cannot explain this better but I am a very amateur car guy. There are no coolant leaks, no smoke, and the car starts. The top radiator hose was hot so I dont think the thermostat is bad.
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There are many indications of a hot engine other than light or gage. Sound, smell, coolant overflow, exceedingly hot hoses and radiator. It looks like that can be ruled out. Did you check the engine oil, or is the dipstick also out of service?


Could the tank replacement have anything to do with this siince it ran fine before? It is getting gas, I can see it in the fuel filter chamber.
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Yes. In fact the thing most recently "fixed" is always the first place to look for new problems... as you see with your fuel gage- which is a really easy fix by the way. 1 wire in, 1 to a ground. Does not get much easier. Is the sending unit new or the old used one?
"I see some gas in the fuel filter" is not a good indicator of flow at pressure though. Try this- put some 2-3 oz of fuel in the carb thru the vent hole if need be, to get it to start. Remove fuel line from carb and direct the fuel pump's output into a container, well secured so it will not spray all over the place. 2L plastic jug for example. Run the motor a few seconds and see what kind of flow the pump puts out at 0 pressure. Watch for bubbles in the flow too- if you have not replaced ALL the rubber and steel lines from tank to pump, it might be sucking air. There's another rubber line at the front passenger foot area, and one more at the fuel pump inlet to frame steel line. If the tank was rusted... so too are the steel lines, probably. Unfortunately, the fuel lines are the first things put on the bare frame, so putting in a new steel line and making it pretty is very hard to do with the body on the frame. Then again, it doesn't have to be pretty to work right, eh?



Any ideas would help, I just dont have the money for a high auto shop bill right now. Very dissapointing since I missed the good guys car show here in Columbus Ohio. Thanks
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It seems like you have spark, timing is not likely off suddenly then OK again, compression is also unlikely to come and go.... so that leaves a fuel flow issue. One way to tell would be to park a small fuel container such as a 2g gas "can" under the hood, and plumb that to the fuel pump's inlet- and run the engine off that supply- in the driveway. If it goes for quite some time with this setup, then it's time to look at the lines from tank to pump and possibly the new tank/ sending unit/ filter sock.

Changing fuel pump is cheap and easy.

When you get it fixed and working right, replace the see thru fuel filter and presumably rubber line in the pressurized side of the fuel system with factory type solid steel tube.

RetroRanger

try loosening the gas cap when it dies see if there is vacuum in the tank

does the car have electronic ignition like an HEI or points ignition ?

Weaver

I used the old fuel sending unit.

I am not sure what the HEI or points ignition is.

Also, what would cause the delay time that the car needs to restart? After it dies it takes about a 20 - 30 minutes before it will restart? That seemed odd that this issue would be a fuel problem. But I know nothing!

jaunty75

The question isn't whether or not you used the old sending unit. The question is, was it reconnected properly? Was the fuel gauge working before you replaced the tank?

Given that the gauge needle pegs at the 3 o'clock position, it's not working properly, and the problem is either that it's not properly connected or that the sending unit itself is faulty.

jaunty75

Educate yourself! You have the entire internet before you!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.E.I.

MDchanic

I've got to say I had the same thought as RetroRanger at first - is your gas cap clogged or non-vented, causing a vacuum condition?

If you started with a gas tank with holes in it and an incorrect non-vented cap, then replaced the tank, you could end up like this.

I still like the porous rubber fuel hoses idea in terms of likelihood, even though you say you changed them.

- Eric

oldcutlass

Why was the fuel tank changed in the first place? Was this an onoing problem?

Gator69olds

He says in the original post that the tank was leaking.

RetroRanger

Your original tank leaked unlikely to hold vacuum.

The new tank presumably has no leaks

as noted above always start w the last thing you fixed. if it had the wrong cap before (non vented) it wouldnt matter w a holey (holy ?) tank The new tank could build a vacuum as gas is pumped out. The vac isnt perfect so after a period of time (30 mins) you could restart and drive again. if you leave the cap loose and drive does it still happen or do you hear a whoosh when you loosen the cap /

The HEI is a common GM distributor that many replace there points iginition with. Points require more maintenance HEI provides hotter spark and less maintenance. Sometimes people dont use thermal grease on the HEI moduls and hot temps contribute to module failure (no spark) when the unit cools (30 mins) the car retarts !!

oldcutlass

Sorry I missed why he changed it in the first post. He says he sees fuel in the filter, so I'm leaning towards an ignition issue.

I wonder if when it happens, he can look down into the carb airhorn and see if it has 2 solid sprays of gas when the throttle is operated.

Weaver

I started the car yesterday and let it run while I observed everything. I am now noticing that the fuel pump is leaking. I have ordered a new one but am now curious as to why this happened right after I changed the tank out? Is it just coincidence or could I have done something to cause it? Would a bad pump allow the car to run and then cause it to shutdonw taking about a half hour to get started again? If so i may have found my issue. Regardless I will be changing out the pump and am hoping I can get some pointers?

The tank I put in is brand new and seems to be installed correctly. The only rubber hose I replaced is the six inches of hose it takes to go from the fuel sending unit to the main line that runs to the pump which is metal.

Colpage1

If the problem continues after you fix the pump you may want to have someone take a look at your carb. My dads car(1970 Buick GS stage 1) had a similar problem. At low speeds it ran fine. Once he got up to 50-55mph on the freeway it began to bog down and would die. I am not much of a mechanic but it just sounded like a familiar problem. There could be some fouling in the carb or the jets if it has been sitting awhile. If thats the case some new jets usually aren't too expensive, the rebuild might be a little pricier. My dad put on a new carb and he hasn't had a problem since. What carb are you running?

jaunty75

I had a problem like this on my '67. Replacing the fuel filter fixed the problem.