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Solar has a place, and wind has a place, but neither is a mainstream, base-load power source, and neither ever will be.
Solar, as we all know, requires the sun to shine. So no electricity is produced at night, and not as much as you’d like is produced when it’s cloudy. So we need some kind of storage capacity, which brings us back to the problem of batteries. Where I live, in southern New Mexico, solar makes sense, and it seems like every third house around here has solar panels on the roof. But that’s because it’s almost always sunny here. (The local chamber of commerce brags that we get 350 sunny days a year, and it’s true).
But solar does not make sense everywhere. Not in Seattle, nor Cleveland, nor Toronto, nor lots of other places. Solar is a member of the “all of the above” list of energy sources. It has a place, but, like I said, it’s not mainstream.
And solar has drawbacks, some of which I’ve noted. It requires sun, it requires storage for night-time, and solar farms take up a lot of space. Putting a set of panels on your roof doesn’t take up extra space, but if you want large scale generation, you need football-field size solar farms. We only have so much land. And don't forget that solar panels, like electric car batteries, require rare-earth metals that are mined in China and that are difficult to dispose of when the solar panel needs to be discarded.
Wind is even worse. The wind doesn’t always blow (although it does blow at night), so you need battery storage for non-windy days. Windmill farms are UGLY. No one wants them in view of their house, and the constant whish-whish-wshish of the spinning turbines has caused health problems in people who live in their vicinity.
There was a well-known case a few years ago where it was proposed to put a windmill farm offshore in view of Nantucket or Martha’s Vineyard or somewhere off the coast of Massachusetts, and the residents whose ocean views would be affected would have none of it. So it was never built. This is the classic NIMBY situation.
Other problems with wind are just now coming to the fore as windmills installed early on in the wind-energy revolution are nearing the ends of their lives. Windmill blades are HUGE (you’ve probably seen them being transported on what look like half-mile-long semis on the interstate highways), and they’re made of composite materials that are not recyclable. What to do with these no-longer-needed blades (bury them? where?) is a problem that has yet to be solved, and it will grow worse as more windmills reach the ends of their lives.
Then there is the windmill-killing-birds problem, which you NEVER hear about. Let three pelicans get killed by a spilled barrel of oil, and the press and the environmentalists treat it like the Armageddon. But let 100,000 birds get killed by windmills every year, and you don’t hear a peep.
Here's a typical article on the bird problem. The basic argument is that, "yes, windmills kill birds, but other man-made technologies kill more." Like that makes it all right. I'd like to see an oil company executive try this argument at the next Senate committee hearing where he has to explain how his offshore oil rig killed six fish.
Wind is a politically-correct energy source that can do no wrong. Oil is a politically-incorrect energy source that can do no right. But it is the latter that has fueled our prosperity and standard of living for more than a century.
Last edited by jaunty75; November 18th, 2020 at 01:49 PM.
There was a well-known case a few years ago where it was proposed to put a windmill farm offshore in view of Nantucket or Martha’s Vineyard or somewhere off the coast of Massachusetts, and the residents whose ocean views would be affected would have none of it. So it was never built. This is the classic NIMBY situation..
I was the general superintendent for the data tower that was erected in Nantucket Sound for this project. The Kennedy Compound was directly opposite the proposed wind farm and they were the biggest opponents
You don't have to have experience with a product to hear the pro's and con's of it. I like the concept of the electric car but I think they need more work. What I've heard is the batteries are terribly expensive and don't last very long. It's like buying a cordless tool. It works alright when it's new but let it get a year or more old and you find yourself struggling with battery issues. There was one country, I believe it was Switzerland the government owns and maintains the batteries. You go somewhere and the battery starts to get run down you pull into a station which has the appearance of an automatic car wash and it pulls the car through and changes the battery and you go out the other side with a fully charged battery and you just pay for a charging fee and you are on your way. This system I could see working. You could travel across the country in an electric car that way. .
I believe it was Switzerland the government owns and maintains the batteries. You go somewhere and the battery starts to get run down you pull into a station which has the appearance of an automatic car wash and it pulls the car through and changes the battery and you go out the other side with a fully charged battery and you just pay for a charging fee and you are on your way. This system I could see working. You could travel across the country in an electric car that way.
I've heard of this as well. But I can see several problems. First, all cars would have to take the same kind of battery (or maybe one of the same two or three kinds of battery), no matter who made it or how old the car is. One of the beauties of gasoline is that the same gas that powers your 1928 Oldsmobile also powers your 1998 Oldsmobile.
Second, there would need to be a HUGE capacity to store batteries at each of these "battery stations" so that anyone pulling in for a "battery change" could be assured of getting one right away.
Third, these battery stations would need so much electricity to charge up the batteries that are continually being dropped off that they would likely almost need their own electricity-generating plants in their backyards.
I don't know that any of these are really problems. But they're the things that come to mind when I think about what a battery switch-out system like this would really entail.
Not threatened by them, but knowing limitations of current and future electric infrastructure I also know how impractical they are except in urban areas where you rarely drive more than 15 miles from your home charging station.
When the things can take me on a trip of several hundred miles and fully charge themselves during, say, a lunch stop, they might be better suited to someone like me who lives 25 miles from anything.
Until such time, not interested.
But just because I spent my career in the electric utility industry doesn't mean I know anything.
Amazon 10,000 vans on the road making deliveries “as early as 2022,” with a total fleet of 100,000 vehicles expected by 2030. Tesla semi trucks in two years.
As for Elon Musk, say what you want. He hires the best minds, super-talented people work as a team. Constant innovations.
A former GM engineer talks about making changes at GM. Took 9 to 14 months. At Tesla in a few weeks.
Love my Oldsmobile torque!
Have anyone test drive a Tesla besides me???? Don't knock it till you try it. Model Y has 375# torque. 0 to 60 in 4.8 seconds. range 315 miles.(This is improving all the time) AWD at $44,000. Equal to my 2019 Avalon Limited.
Walmart Canada is now reserving a total of 130 Tesla Semi trucks
Walmart cites the following sustainability and safety features as “key highlights on the new Tesla Semi electric trucks”:
Tesla Semi consumes less than two kilowatt-hours of energy per mile at Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) and highway speed, significantly reducing operating costs per mile compared to diesel.
500 miles range allows a driver to go to their destination and back without recharging (500 mile range at maximum weight at highway speed)
Capable of 0-60 mph in 20 seconds with a full 80,000-pound load and can climb 5 per cent grades at a steady 65 mph (compared to 45mph for same grade in a diesel truck)
Regenerative braking technology recovers 98 per cent of kinetic energy to the battery
Surrounding vehicle cameras and sensors aid object detection and minimize blind spots, automatically alerting the driver to safety hazards and obstacles
Additional driver safety features including Automatic Emergency Braking, Automatic Lane Keeping, Lane Departure Warning
Say what you want! Not saying you must buy EV. Just that EV are here! I will honestly tell you what I think about my made in Texas Cybertruck AWD. 500 miles range. Full Self-Driving, 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds! Gods knows I love going fast!
Have anyone test drive a Tesla besides me???? Don't knock it till you try it.
I'm sure it's wonderful. But the cheapest Tesla has a base price of over $40,000. Hardly a vehicle for the common man and out of my price range.
High prices have plagued electric and hybrid vehicles right from the beginning. The famous Toyota Prius, which has been around now for many years, never would have gotten anywhere without significant government tax credits offered to buyers. (The same has also been true for home solar panel installations.) The only people who could afford Prius's initially were the rich and famous, which is why they came to be associated with quiche-eating Hollywood types. I have driven a Prius (it was a rental car when we were on a trip once and totally unexpected), and I thought it was a wonderful car with amazing technology. It doesn't deserve the raps that its gotten But it did suffer also from a higher price than an equivalent gasoline-powered car, which is why it had to be subsidized to get anyone to buy it.
Last edited by jaunty75; November 18th, 2020 at 04:40 PM.
One of the most HEAVILY subsidized industries is the renewable energy industry. Without government subsidy, solar and wind wouldn't exist. That's why I laugh when I hear complaints from those advocating solar and wind about the evil oil industry taking government bailout money. Physician, heal thyself!
Originally Posted by jaunty75
I'm sure it's wonderful. But the cheapest Tesla has a base price of over $40,000. Hardly a vehicle for the common man and out of my price range.
Tesla’s Elon Musk said a $25,000 electric car with next-gen battery in the works
500 miles at 7 to 10 hours of driving should get out of harms way.
They evacuated and ended up right in the hurricane's path after it changed direction, and the entire area lost electricity. Two days later they finally found an open hotel in another area and evacuated again. No opportunity to recharge an electric vehicle. Heck, for two days they had to sit in their cars to charge the cel phone batteries.
And you have obviously never evacuated for a hurricane. It took a lot of people 7 to 10 hours to get 150 miles away.
Last edited by Fun71; November 18th, 2020 at 05:10 PM.
They evacuated north and ended up right in the hurricane's path, and the entire area lost electricity. Two days later they finally found an open hotel in another area and evacuated again.
And you have obviously never evacuated for a hurricane. It took a lot of people 7 to 10 hours to get 150 miles away.
Lived in south texas, Port Isabel, TX. EV are not running all the time. Tesla take a split second to start moving. Hours do not matter, mileage does. But I do understand if the power go out. Your are F**ked. Cybertruck will have solar panels as a option..
Not sure about other EV. People may want to bone up about EV. At this point in the world. Tesla is ten years ahead of the rest.
Check out this guy Dirty Tesla - YouTube Has old model 3, solar panels, battery storage. Sell power back to the elect company. I think he is in Michigan. Not the warmest sunniest place.
There are two ways to develop a product. Design-Build (Boeing) & Trial & Error (Space X). Space X may have won the battle (manned space flight) but they are far from winning the space war. Trial and Error has certainly proved to be quicker but would you really want to be the one flying in a rocket that was developed that way.
For that reason, as an Engineer, I abhor Musk and everything about how his companies operate. And FWIW I'm not a geek designer, I'm in Heavy Construction.
I respectfully! Guess I am a geek Fire Sprinkler Designer. But have corrected many Civil, Mechanical and Fire Sprinkler Professional Engineers. Fire Marshals and a few Architects. And so call government engineers who take civil service exam, but did not have a PE license. But always including the words " I respectfully! ". And yes! I know I am a opinionated, pain in the ***, know it all, big mouth, smart *** and somethime witty. It's just me
I have Tesla stock. I wish Elon Musk decades of success. I hope Space X goes public.
Must be chit house luck that a trial and error guy hits the top 5 mega-billionaire club. What makes him a genius is his dedication to his vision / dreams, putting the right people in place, giving them the freedom and means to make it happen.
IMPO...selling cars is not his dream. Its batteries, young man, batteries. Make no mistake about it, they will serve him well...In space. The final frontier.
So I am curious. If you buy an electric car, how do you charge it at home?
Plug into a 110 outlet in the garage?
Pay electrician to install new 50-100 Amp (?) wiring from breaker box to garage outlet?
If new wiring is required, that adds to the cost of the vehicle. How much would that be?
If it takes new electric infrastructure, that would exclude renters from buying electric cars.
Port Isabel? That area had what, 3 or 4 hurricanes in the past 50 years? My family had to evacuate that many times this year alone. With the deeper Gulf water the storms that far west aren’t nearly as strong as the eastern shallow warmer water storms.
Last edited by Fun71; November 18th, 2020 at 08:55 PM.
The windmills themselves are the deciding factor. Denmark and Holland take pains in trying to make theirs at least aesthetic. Germans don't, though. They only care for function
Originally Posted by jaunty75
...No one wants them in view of their house...
If they're located in front of someone else's house, it's then perfectly okay. The same goes with where they located spent nuclear fuel rod entombment sites. This same argument began, beginning with the erection of telegraph- and telephone cable poles
Originally Posted by jaunty75
...and the constant whish-whish-wshish of the spinning turbines has caused health problems in people who live in their vicinity...
It depends on the person. Not everyone is sensitive to this or even notices. There have been issues with the endangerment of the rotating blades to bats and birds. Enen though the rotating blades look slow, if you measure their actual speed at the blade outter tips, you'd be surprised as to how fast they really are. They could help keeping these wildlife-friendly, if they would surround the blades with a finely-meshed fence
Originally Posted by FN723
...I believe it was Switzerland the government owns and maintains the batteries. You go somewhere and the battery starts to get run down you pull into a station which has the appearance of an automatic car wash and it pulls the car through and changes the battery and you go out the other side with a fully charged battery...
This is being done in Norway where hydroelectric power charges the battery. I don't know if the government owns this directly or is subsidizing this service station chain to a certain point. This is the vehicle model of which gets a drive-through battery:
Looks almost more like a European version of a Workfare program than a modern automated assembly line:
So I am curious. If you buy an electric car, how do you charge it at home?
Plug into a 110 outlet in the garage?
Pay electrician to install new 50-100 Amp (?) wiring from breaker box to garage outlet?
If new wiring is required, that adds to the cost of the vehicle. How much would that be?
If it takes new electric infrastructure, that would exclude renters from buying electric cars.
Port Isabel? That area had what, 3 or 4 hurricanes in the past 50 years? My family had to evacuate that many times this year alone. With the deeper Gulf water the storms that far west aren’t nearly as strong as the eastern shallow warmer water storms.
1. Yes, you can plug it into a standard outlet. But the charge speed is REALLY slow that way, like 5-6 miles charge per hour. So overnight you can get like 50 miles charged. This is a "stage 1" charger. Stage 2 charges off 240, you can wire it up at home, and charges about 20 miles charge per hour. Stage 3 is the quick chargers, they are more industrial, and can charge your car in a little over an hour. Wiring depends on what your house is set up for, I use the same outlet in my garage that my air compressor plugs into, so no additional cost other than the charge cable, which was about $200. The car came with the standard charge cord.
So I am curious. If you buy an electric car, how do you charge it at home?
Plug into a 110 outlet in the garage?
Pay electrician to install new 50-100 Amp (?) wiring from breaker box to garage outlet?
If new wiring is required, that adds to the cost of the vehicle. How much would that be?
If it takes new electric infrastructure, that would exclude renters from buying electric cars.
Port Isabel? That area had what, 3 or 4 hurricanes in the past 50 years? My family had to evacuate that many times this year alone. With the deeper Gulf water the storms that far west aren’t nearly as strong as the eastern shallow warmer water storms.
My brother in law had a big charging transformer box installed on the side of his garage. The power cord was about the size of the cord used to power a RV from your house. If I remember correctly, it took 40 amp service to power. He had to upgrade his electrical service on his house to support it. Granted, the house was built in the 60s, but still added expense
My wife’s ex-husband was a firefighter until a couple years ago. He had to take several classes on vehicle extraction with electric cars. I have no idea what the battery capacity/voltage of a electric car, but no doubt cutting thru a power cable with the Jaws of Life would be bad news for everyone around!!!
He was also an arson investigator. Kinda off the subject, but there are countless common household items that can be mixed together to start a time delayed fire. Things everyone has, and that you would never suspect or question! For obvious reason, I’m not sharing the info!
November 18th, 2020, 01:34 PM
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