71RadioflyerVista

Almost finished with my 455 swap in my '71 Vista Cruiser...

My specific question this time around concerns the coil and the distributor. It's a factory style distributor retrofitted with the Pertronix Ignitor setup, and Mallory cap & rotor. I'm also running a Mallory 12v universal coil.

Will the distributor handle the coil no problem or do I need to run a resistor? Any advice would be appreciated!

Thank you very much

joe_padavano

The resistor has nothing to do with the coil. It's only there to drop the voltage to the points for longer life. No points = no resistor needed.

oldcutlass

There are some ignition systems that require the resistor, IE Mallory Unilight, the Pertronics does not!

71RadioflyerVista

Ok cool, thanks much to the both of you!

spyke

what are the symptoms of a coil going bad i thought maybe i got some bad gas from somewhere because when i hit the gas sometime it seems like my car is busting up it will poot once or twice then it will go ahead and go, then when i shut it down it will poot like it doesnt want to cut off like theres some bad gas in it but i put some gas treatment in it and it still does it. then the most anoying thing of all after i have drove the car and it gets up to temp it sometimes act like it dpoesnt want to start up could that be the coil going bad?

spyke

oh yeah i also cleaned the carb with some carb and choke cleaner thinking maybe the carb may have some inpurities in it and still the same results.

oldcutlass

Well I think I need to know the definition of the technical term "poot" ?

a6m5zerosen

Have you checked the timing (with the vacuum advance unhooked)and the firing order since you restabbed the distributor? Also check to see that you do not have a resistance wire going to the coil-make sure it's a full 12 volts. make sure the + and - are not reversed on the coil.

spyke

well i change the coil since it hadnt been done since i bought the car and i changed the condenser and the rotor button i crunk it up after installingall that it ran for a min.then it idled irractically had my motor shaking real bad then i couldnt give any gas because of the funny idleing so this morning i went out crunk it and it started to run like it was suppose to then the it idled real irractically i shut it down now all it will do is just turn and act like it wants to start but wont actually crank up could this problem be in my distributor? or could i have bought a bad coil?

oldcutlass

Have you made sure your choke is pulling off when it warms up?

spyke

What about the points could they also be bad some told me to take coil wire off first and make sure om getting gas then if I am trying putting in some new point and to see if the coil os bad he said to put the old one back in since it was firing good and see if it fires if so then the problem is with the coil

spyke

Im not sure pf what you mean by making sure the chicken pulls off

oldcutlass

CHOKE! ON the carburetor, is it opening all the way when the engine is warmed up.

spyke

my bad i didnt mean to write chicken but yes the choke is WIDE open why should it closed or something? and should i puechase new points because today when i got off work i tried starting it again and it started very slowly and just for a breef second and i wasnt able to give it any gas to keep it started, could it be out of time im seriously thinking about taking this points dist. out and adding an HEI.

oldcutlass

What is your dwell and timing set to? You don't want to speculate without verifying your settings.

spyke

im not sure i dont know how to check the the dwell i have a book on oldsmobile wich told me to turn the dwell clockwise til the car starts to misfire then turn it 1/3 of the way counterclockwise then i just read that a bad ground at the battery will cause this problem also so it said to clean the ground and try it again i want to know what would you do in this situation if were your car you gotta understand how i feel the car was running beautiful the day before yesterday now i cant even get it to crank.

Gator69olds

I read that your car had been sitting a while(since 81). Did you clean your fuel system? Drop the tank clean the carb? I would just start pulling parts off unless I knew they were bad. Did you the spark your getting from the distibutor? Is it firing strong or weak? If your getting a good spark I would just pull the distibutor out. I would do more trouble shoot before you start just start replacing parts. Are you sure it's not just flooding out or not getting enough gas? I by far a mechanic but there is a lot of things to check before you start just replacing parts.

spyke

so you have following some of the things io have been saying about my car yes it had been sitting for a while but whats funny is i have been driving this car back and forth to work with no problems then maybe about a week ago i started to feel this little slurge when i pulled off from a stop light it felt like the car wanted to poot out but then it go ahead and go and even eccelarate real good, and since the car had been sittin for a loooong time i figured it was time to change some of the old parts that were on there so i changed the coil,condenser and the rotor button afterwards i crunk it drove it a couple of miles and came back home and when stoping in my driveway and allowing it idle it started to bust up real bad. it started to missfire like my plugs were bad so i cut it off and let it sit til this morning then i went out to crank it and it crunk for approximately 3mins. then started to idle irradically and and shut down so i patted the gas a couple of times and tried to crank it again it acted as if wanted to crank but never turned over now i have a brand new coil ,condenser and rotor button and the car wont crank someone else said when i disconnected my battery i couldve killed the ground connection and that i should take the ground lose at the battery clean it and try it again then i was told the feul pump may going bad or gone but i see gas in the carb when i pump it and i know i mat need to change the feul filter in the carb but is there one under the car? im lost

spyke

(oldcutlass) i just noticed that you have a chevy motor in your car oh but its clean

spyke

hey i just thought about what my problem may be about three days ago my brother put a flex fan on my car and in the process of him taking the clutch fan off he turned my harmonic balancer backwards in order to get the bolt off couldnt that throw my timmimg off?

TripDeuces

How can it be turned backwards and still seal the timing cover or mount the crank pulley to it? Yes that would throw off the timing a tad, lol

oldcutlass

Yup, it's BBC in it! I've got the olds engine in a shed!

Ok, do you have a matchbook laying around. Lets set the points the old fashiond back yard way. Take the distributor cap off, remove the rotor, gently bump the engine around until the points are all the way open on the highest part of the lobe. Tear off the matchbook cover and slide it into the opening between the points. Adjust the screw so that the points are barely tugging on the matchbook cover. Put the rotor and cap back on. Hopefully your wrong about the harmonic balance, and hopefully you have a timing light to set your timing to 8-10 degrees BTDC with the vacuum advance disconnected.

Intragration

This is good advice on quickly setting the dwell. I have a couple thoughts though. First, if this is an old engine, the timing chain may have slipped, in which case you will never get it to run properly again without putting a new chain in correctly. There's NO POSSIBLE WAY for it to run correctly with a slipped chain. If it was running great, and it surged, and stopped running great, and nothing you've done has helped, this is where my money is. My gut feeling is that it should at least RUN, even if the points are way out of adjustment, and if it's just timing, you should be able to get it running reasonably well just by playing with the distributor position. But if it's the timing chain, this is no small deal, this is the end of the line for your motor until you change it.

Having said this, I don't think you should be working on an old car like this without a timing light and a dwell meter, which can be purchased used for less than half the price of a used HEI distributor. You can generally get a car RUNNING without these things, but you really need them if you want to get it running properly once you get it started. Finally, if you're feeling lost as you say you are, this is not a good time IMO to learn the finer points of how an engine works. If you're lost and frustrated, I think you need some experienced help. Just my opinion. If you're nearby, I'd be happy to help.

spyke

i get what your saying about the timming chain i guess that is possible i pulled the wire off the coil and took my gas line lose and had my son crank the car and im getting plenty gas to the carb then pulled the no.#1 spark plug off to check and see if i was getting ant fire and it wasnt getting ant fire SO a friend of mine that owns his own shop, asked me when was the last time i put points in the car and its been at least 3 months so he said the reason im not getting any fire is because the points are completely gone so i went to advance and bought some new points he also advized me to use the same method as you told me with the match book only he said to use a dime. i told the same thing about turning the balancer backwards he said that doesnt make a difference as long as the distributor hadnt been removed while doing that,so im gonna try the points first and if that doesnt work my next step is to get rid of the points dist. and add a new timming chain and add a regular HEI dist. and if all fails i have a 5.7 chevy motor out of a 93 1500 on the engine stand and all it needs is a carb i will just drop it in.

Gator69olds

Glad you did some more trouble shooting on it. At least now you know it a firing problem. Get the points put in and give us an update. Good luck! Got faith in you to get the olds fired up!! Just try not to get to frustrated.

spyke

im not getting frustrated to be honest this fun to me being able to talk other people who have had simular problems and are willing to help others out i thought real hard about what you said about trouble shooting because everyone that i come in contact with tells me that it nothing major your car was running to good and you just have to take your time and (TROUBLE SHOOT) the problem and you will figure it out. like i said its getting PLENTY of gas just know fire and i was told that my point were no good and if i replace the i should get my fire back and everything should be back to normal considering i changed the coil and the condenser and the rotor button but i am gonna change the feul filter.

Highwayman

The correct gap on a V8 should be .16 inch. You can use a feeler gauge if it is clean and oil free. A matchbook cover is a roadside repair trick because it is close and normally clean. Save the dime to gap your spark plugs, it's to thick for the points.

spyke

im gonna go and purchase a feeler gauge but when i install the points do you think that will give me back my fire because its getting gas as i said before, and i really dont think its nothing major at least i hope not anyway. im almost sure it is the point because this morning before work i tried adjusting the points and it tried to start and then i have had more than 1 person to tell me that if i purchased new point it should crank back up for me what do you think?

Intragration

Maybe this is a silly question, and please don't take any offense, but HOW did you check for spark on the spark plug? You say you pulled the "spark plug"...so did you pull the plug, or did you pull the wire off the plug? Exactly how did you check to see if you were getting spark, and how do you know that you're not? What I'm getting at is, were you checking for a spark between either the wire or electrode and a GOOD ground?

I would VERY strongly recommend against swapping out the distributor, at least at this point. That's not taking your time and troubleshooting, that's just throwing parts at the problem. If your distributor was working a couple days ago, there's no reason why it would suddenly be keeping your car from running. Get it set up right and try cranking it again, no more than a few seconds at a crank. Double check again and see if you're getting spark. If nothing, figure out why. If you are, try moving the distributor a little in either direction and see what happens. If it still won't start at any point, and you're 100% positive that everything is set up correctly and you are getting fuel as you say you are, I think the next thing then is to check and see if the chain has jumped. If it's a 40 year old original chain, there's a VERY good chance this is what your problem is. You can either pull the timing cover if you want, or a quick check would be to get #1 to TDC using a stop and then checking to see where the timing mark is in relation to the zero mark.

I mean no disrespect, but an engine isn't magic, it's just a machine. Throwing parts at it in hopes of getting it running doesn't address the basic problem that's causing it not to run. Also, and I'm just trying to help by saying this, not trying to be a jerk, but if you don't understand how a particular part like a distributor works, and you replace it with another distributor with fewer moving parts, this is an error in your troubleshooting method, and you're still going to have other problems in the future that you're going to have a hard time with if your methods continue to involve shortcuts instead of good old-fashioned troubleshooting. My feeling in this case is it's a very simple problem, maybe with a slightly complicated repair, but I think your goal should be to pinpoint the problem and fix it, not to just keep replacing parts up to and including putting in a new engine just because you couldn't get the old one running. Now, if you have a new or better engine that you just want to swap in, or you have no intention of repairing the existing engine and replacement is your ultimate goal, that's a different story. Good luck figuring out what the problem is.

MDchanic

+1.

You have barely begun to troubleshoot, it is definitely not time to start throwing new parts at it (including points), and you can't just "drop in" a Chebby engine.

Why not get an old Motor or Glenn manual, which go through simple, systematic troubleshooting procedures for these kinds of problems, and follow them, or read the appropriate parts of the Chassis Service manual, then get back to us.

Also, I will admit that I have not been responding to this thread because trying to read your unpunctuated prose gives me a headache. I would take a half an hour of my time to write down a set of instructions for you to figure out exactly what your problem was within minutes and fix it, but honestly, if you can't be bothered to press the period or comma button every now and then, I can't be bothered either.

- Eric

brown7373

Another possible problem I didn't see mentioned is the carb. The rubber parts in a carb can be destroyed by additives in the gas, and sitting long periods doesn't help them either. I don't recomment just tearing into the carb if you don't know what you are doing, but carbs are not hard to rebuild if you have a manual and take the time to read and understand how the carb works.

You said the car wouldn't crank and wouldn't turn over. Just what do you mean? Doesn't crank means the starter doesn't engage and run and doesn't turn over means the starter doesn't turn the engine, meaning you have a bad stater or bad battery, or something causing them to not work. Be more specific as to exactly what is happening.

oldcutlass

Apparently he has no real tools, so my suggestions were right in line with a true back yard mechanic, no insult intended!

For Eric, I'm still trying to get a definition of "POOT". And I have a translator for the rest, lol.

spyke

i would like to thank everybody who helped me with this problem, there are some good people on this site and after testing to see if i was getting any fire i came to find that the points were no good. this morning i added a new set of point and and buying a feeler gauge the car started right up and is running BEAUTIFUL, again i would like to say thank you to all who gave advice on getting this problem worked because nobody is perfect and we all need a lil help but. for the ones (MDchanic) who always have something negative to say you should find another site where there only people who like to insult each other this is not the first time you have made a negative comment towards something i have asked about. we are here to help one another so please if you feel like answering my questions or any other questions you feel are stupid or not worth your time because of misspelling or no punctuations, then feel free not to say anything at all because again god made me and you the same way (IMPERFECT) so why dont you join us and help instead of trying to find something bad to say all the time. (intragration) thanks alot for the pep talk your right about everything you said and im gonna try and find a malibu station wagon for the chevy motor but thanks to everybody who had possitive things that helped me get my baby back on the road.

Gator69olds

I'm glad you got her up and running!

Intragration

Fantastic, I'm glad you got it running. I'm actually a bit surprised, I wouldn't have thought that the points would suddenly fail and prevent it from running, but I guess anything is possible.

As for the rest, there are a lot of people who have a real hard time with grammar, both getting it right, and looking at it when it's wrong. It may not seem like a big deal, but without clarity, communication can be difficult. There was other good advice in that post, and as with everything else on this site, it's FWIW, so I would just take it that way and move on.

fadan133

Word to the wise; If your runing a engine with points in it invest in a dwell meter, set points to 30deg. and if you suspect a dist problem, just check the dwell, if the points or the condenser are getting bad or failing the dwell will be way off.

oldcutlass

Glad your up and running!

MDchanic

This forum is a printed communication medium, which means that we communicate with each other through printed text, rather than voice or video.

This means that in order for us to understand one another, we need to communicate clearly in print.

Printing huge blocks of unpunctuated text indicates a number of things, including (in this case) that you do speak fluent English, and that you are intentionally leaving out your punctuation.
Since you are expecting me to strain and go out of my way to understad you, then spend my time going out of my way to help you, I find this deeply disrespectful of me, and of all of your readers, and so I believe it was YOU who insulted ME. None of us is perfect, but taking the trouble to ensure that your posts are written in clear English will go far toward getting them answered quickly and accurately.

As the old New York City radio host Bob Grant (Robert Gigante) has been saying since at least 1970:
"Somebody's got to say these things, and it might as well be me!"

- Eric