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As I have mentioned before, one of the things my wife and I enjoy is garage sales, flea markets, pawn shops, swap meets, etc.
Recently we bought a 1954 Philco refrigerator at a flea market. It’s in excellent shape, and works great. One of my stepdaughters posted a pic of it on instagram/TikTok/whatever, commenting that it still works great, and no appliances made within the last few decades will last 70 years. Someone commented that the old “junk” was overbuilt, and inefficient, with a huge carbon footprint. While I have zero doubt the stuff made recently is probably more energy efficient, my argument is how can something made ONCE (and still performing the intended function flawlessly) have a larger carbon footprint than several appliances over the same period? I bet the carbon footprint law of diminishing returns was tilted in favor of the old stuff sometime during the Bush administration (the FIRST Bush administration!!).
Kerp in mind, this isn’t going to be our only refrigerator. We only plan to keep drinks and snacks for family movie night or hang out sessions.
Here’s the reply I got on a WTB ad on Craigslist a while back.
My response was “A vehicle that gets driven less than a few miles on some weekends in the summer? Kinda like those modern VW diesels that were spewing emissions? Go mind your own business.”
my argument is how can something made ONCE (and still performing the intended function flawlessly) have a larger carbon footprint than several appliances over the same period?
I agree with you. Even if it is not as efficient as newer models*, it is already built, and has already consumed raw materials and energy in its construction. So you're starting at carbon zero with it and whatever electricity it uses from now is going to be less than the raw materials and energy consumed during the manufacture of a new higher efficiency unit.
* It would be interesting to actually measure the power consumption of this old refrigerator compared to a newer one to have hard data showing if it really is less efficient, and if so, by how much. Maybe it isn't really inefficient?
Who cares what other people think, it's an antique that works great. Just remenber in remove the door. When its past its time. Way too many children have died. Lock inside one's sitting on the curb.
I worked for 40 years as a plant utility engineer (refrigeration, boilers, air handling, water systems, etc.)
I assure you that your Philco uses multiples of energy to accomplish the same refrigeration effect as a new refrigerator would.
But here are two points worthy of consideration...
1. The Philco is TINY compared with a modern refrigerator and therefore needs less refrigeration effect. That makes it less worse for energy consumption. It does not have automatic defrost, which is a huge energy consumer. You just unplug and open the door periodically to let the defrost progress. It does not have skin heaters to prevent condensation on the outside of the unit--another energy-waster.
2. Yes, we need to have respect for things of earth. But how we express this respect varies among individuals. For example, you may choose to work from home and not commute--saving many times the energy needed by the Philco.
In my experience including a 1956 Westinghouse freezer still working perfectly today, most are 1/12th horsepower compressors, many with a serviceable external starting relay. These use far less power then frost-free modern designs which have heating elements around the door opening and often elaborate timer functions to affect the defrost function without having to manual defrost the cold coil, cheating you out of a snowball fight in August, as happened in our house growing up.
The internet has given morons a perpetual outlet, their stupidity on topics for which they have no knowledge or experience seeming to have no limit or end. Forget about it.
One thing: Older fridges and freezers are dangerous with kids and pets around in the sense the doors are latching and cannot be pushed open from the inside, so you have to be extra diligent in that regard. My old freezer has a hasp for a padlock to keep kids out. The door has to come off when disposed of for safety for this reason.
The internet has given morons a perpetual outlet, their stupidity on topics for which they have no knowledge or experience seeming to have no limit or end.
How is it a 56 year old car that can get 21 mpg on the highway
and still running like a sewing machine be less efficient? It's already outlasted most of the 10 to 15 year old cars.
Like most things today, designed to fail.Planned Obsolescence! We are all screwed! The corporations get richer. And the rest of us get, Honey the washer, dyer, etc..... stop working. We need a new one!.
There's no way a modern refrigerator has a smaller carbon footprint than a classic one that's still functioning. Don't forget to add all the carbon emitted by the slave labor that manufactured that modern refrigerator. Plus the energy spent shipping it 1/2 way around the world!
My 2 cents.... Also have a 50's fridge in my basement, still running. I am betting it uses way less electricity to run than a newer refrigerator. Old units have no evap fan, no condenser fan, no defrost heaters, no time clocks.
Thats what people forget about buying new more efficient vehicles…the amount of energy that goes into making them.
The best thing you can do for the environment is driving the car you have into the ground.
The tail pipe emissions of a car are usually equal to the emissions of building that very car.
“The upshot is that – despite common claims to contrary – the embodied emissions of a car typically rival the exhaust pipe emissions over its entire lifetime. Indeed, for each mile driven, the emissions from the manufacture of a top-of-the-range Land Rover Discovery that ends up being scrapped after 100,000 miles may be as much as four times higher than the tailpipe emissions of a Citroen C1.”
As others have already stated, it's the frost-free functions where you really would experience differences in efficiency / power usage. Fridges from the 60's - 80's were the worst, so your 50's-era fridge, as long as the door seal is good, will likely not cost you any more than a new fridge would on the utility bill. Sure, you could likely make the argument that the smaller cubic feet in your vintage fridge equates to it being less efficient, but if it suits your needs for beer/pop/excess cold food storage, then who cares.
I fired up my 1998 or so Sanyo dorm fridge a couple weeks back. Then I turned it off and cracked the plastic ****. Did the same thing on a receiver **** tonight. Out came the J&B Weld.
The internet has definitely lead to a death of expertise and a death of appreciation for a skill/trade/certification/degree. Everyone thinks they can look something up and know everything there is to know in five min. Environmentalism is also not a science; it's a religion, and its followers can get real bitchy when you don't adhere to their cult.
Here’s a repair tip that I use frequently. Super Glue along with baking soda. Apply the glue in the appropriate areas then sprinkle baking soda over the glue. The baking soda is a catalyst that immediately cures the glue and also acts as a filler.
Koda''Environmentalism is also not a science; it's a religion'' ??
You do not need to be a scientist or a religious figure. To see how bad the west is on fire. Plastic pollution killing sea life dying etc. I see it right here in the waters of Laguna Madre Texas and Gulf of Mexico
I will not eat any fish that feeds off the bottom. They have the most toxins. Yes, environmentist drive gas cars, have old refrigerator, lawn mowers from the 60's.
I’m not too concerned about what the tree hugger opinion is on this stuff. Who knows where/when the trade off is on efficiency verses cost to manufacture or replace. I just think it’s absolutely best **** crazy that with all the advances in manufacturing and materials that something made 70 years ago still works flawlessly, while the crap made today won’t last a fraction of the time, and can’t be serviced.
I suppose with enough research I could find what the original price was for this unit, and what that price would be adjusted for inflation. I can tell you the old fridge is much heavier than the new ones, even though it’s alot smaller. Obviously the old stuff was made with much thicker metal!!
Koda''Environmentalism is also not a science; it's a religion'' ??
You do not need to be a scientist or a religious figure. To see how bad the west is on fire. Plastic pollution killing sea life dying etc. I see it right here in the waters of Laguna Madre Texas and Gulf of Mexico
I will not eat any fish that feeds off the bottom. They have the most toxins. Yes, environmentist drive gas cars, have old refrigerator, lawn mowers from the 60's.
Poor forest management practices plus overdevelopment has contributed greatly to the Western fires. Add in poorly maintained and overburdened electrical infrastructure and it's a perfect storm. So yes, you can say a lot of that problem is man-made. Yet they're beating the drum loud as possible to convert everything out there to electric. I call this "bandwagon effect"- these folks haven't studied things completely enough to understand true costs and effects, but they like to latch on to whatever the newest next big thing is.
Recycling plastics and other materials is a good thing. I did it for many years. Then the recycle bins changed from dedicated paper, plastic and glass bins to "commingled recyclables" bins, and it then came out that it was ALL going in the landfills because it wasn't cost-effective to separate it out. There was no market for the recyclables; cheaper to make virgin products than to recycle and reuse. Add in the county waste management division moved the nearest commingled bins to require me to make a 30 mile round trip to dump them and I realized these people weren't at all serious about recycling/reusing.
Closest thing we have here to true recycling is the Amish craftsmen use recycled soft drink bottles to make Adirondack chairs and other yard furniture.
Those who own and use decades-old stuff that still functions as designed contribute less to "carbon footprint" than those who buy new and end up replacing it every few years because it fails early.
Matt, I dig the Philco. It has more style than any modern high-zoot stainless steel fridge made, and it does what it was meant to do- keep food and beer cold! Why anyone needs a fridge with a see-through door I will never understand... why not just go buy a commercial duty drink box if you just have to be able to see its contents?
Last edited by rocketraider; May 21st, 2022 at 09:41 AM.
Poor forest management practices plus overdevelopment has contributed greatly to the Western fires. Add in poorly maintained and overburdened electrical infrastructure and it's a perfect storm. So yes, you can say a lot of that problem is man-made. Yet they're beating the drum loud as possible to convert everything out there to electric. I call this "bandwagon effect"- these folks haven't studied things completely enough to understand true costs and effects, but they like to latch on to whatever the newest next big thing is.
Recycling plastics and other materials is a good thing. I did it for many years. Then the recycle bins changed from dedicated paper, plastic and glass bins to "commingled recyclables" bins, and it then came out that it was ALL going in the landfills because it wasn't cost-effective to separate it out. There was no market for the recyclables; cheaper to make virgin products than to recycle and reuse. Add in the county waste management division moved the nearest commingled bins to require me to make a 30 mile round trip to dump them and I realized these people weren't at all serious about recycling/reusing.
Closest thing we have here to true recycling is the Amish craftsmen use recycled soft drink bottles to make Adirondack chairs and other yard furniture.
Those who own and use decades-old stuff that still functions as designed contribute less to "carbon footprint" than those who buy new and end up replacing it every few years because it fails early.
I agree with most of what you say. Western fires, is a lack of rain. Everything else is secondary causes.
Living in St George UT for three years before here. Old time farmers tell me the climate changes. Are unlike anything they seen in their lifetimes. Many are building underground shelter, stockpiling food and water for their familys. Seeing the worst is yet to come. Highest temperature ever recorded in St. George, Utah was 117.0 °F which occurred on July 11, 2021. Some area by me were really 124°F. With a few days in the 120's.
Even here in Laguna Vista. Its has gone from subtropical to tropical in the 10 years. I have been coming here.
Some people think we can not fix it, so do not try. Other say there is no problem and hide their heads in the sand. Others''Environmentalism is also not a science; it's a religion'' That Bat **** Crazy talk!
Poor forest management practices plus overdevelopment has contributed greatly to the Western fires.
Yes indeed. I read research that in 1900-era surveys of AZ forests, there were 25 trees per acre. In 2000 there were 1200 trees per acre due to "environmentalists" banning logging and forest thinning, so the forests were overgrown. Then in 2005 we had a HUGE wildfire that devastated the National Forest, but stopped dead at the border of the Indian reservation where they have been logging all along. That was the convincing data point that confirmed letting the forests grow out of conrol was bad, and logging / thinning was good for the long term health of the forest and its wildlife inhabitants.
Koda''Environmentalism is also not a science; it's a religion'' ??
You do not need to be a scientist or a religious figure. To see how bad the west is on fire. Plastic pollution killing sea life dying etc. I see it right here in the waters of Laguna Madre Texas and Gulf of Mexico
I will not eat any fish that feeds off the bottom. They have the most toxins. Yes, environmentist drive gas cars, have old refrigerator, lawn mowers from the 60's.
Originally Posted by rocketraider
Poor forest management practices plus overdevelopment has contributed greatly to the Western fires. Add in poorly maintained and overburdened electrical infrastructure and it's a perfect storm. So yes, you can say a lot of that problem is man-made. Yet they're beating the drum loud as possible to convert everything out there to electric. I call this "bandwagon effect"- these folks haven't studied things completely enough to understand true costs and effects, but they like to latch on to whatever the newest next big thing is.
Recycling plastics and other materials is a good thing. I did it for many years. Then the recycle bins changed from dedicated paper, plastic and glass bins to "commingled recyclables" bins, and it then came out that it was ALL going in the landfills because it wasn't cost-effective to separate it out. There was no market for the recyclables; cheaper to make virgin products than to recycle and reuse. Add in the county waste management division moved the nearest commingled bins to require me to make a 30 mile round trip to dump them and I realized these people weren't at all serious about recycling/reusing.
Closest thing we have here to true recycling is the Amish craftsmen use recycled soft drink bottles to make Adirondack chairs and other yard furniture.
Those who own and use decades-old stuff that still functions as designed contribute less to "carbon footprint" than those who buy new and end up replacing it every few years because it fails early.
Matt, I dig the Philco. It has more style than any modern high-zoot stainless steel fridge made, and it does what it was meant to do- keep food and beer cold! Why anyone needs a fridge with a see-through door I will never understand... why not just go buy a commercial duty drink box if you just have to be able to see its contents?
Sure. Environmentalism is a religion. It's followed and adhered to by profoundly ignorant people who simply believe what they're told and couldn't blow their nose if brains were suddenly dynamite. They don't know how much of the changing climate humanity is responsible for, and how much is natural. They don't know what else can change the climate. They don't know who is responsible for the climate change that humanity is responsible for, and they aren't serious enough about it to go to where the problems really are because it's not convenient or comfortable.
Environmental science, on the other hand, is a science like any other with experts in that field.
The problem is, most people on the internet talking about the environment couldn't even do it right if they had information and knew how to parse it, but they don't have that, either. They **** and moan for restrictive laws to bother my way of life, but no homework has been do to show any sort of effect that it might have other than pissing me off. But, it's a GOOD IDEA and doing it FEELS GOOD, so we must do it IF IT SAVES JUST ONE LIFE!!!
Ultimately, they are self appointed experts running on feelings and ignorance. They annoy me, and other men of science, because they do not know how to approach the problems, so there's no way they can solve them.
I have no issue with appropriate environmental protection measures.
If I am not mistaken. As a young child I read. Most of the forest tree were cut down for the industrial revolution! To building the great cities. Next feeding the fire to heat home.The catskills where i grew up
"While the logging industry was the worst offender in the despoliation of the forests, other enterprises were also to blame. The tanning industry, especially in the Catskills, wiped out hemlock trees to the extent that tanneries were forced to give up the business because of the lack of readily available hemlock bark. The paper industry seriously depleted the spruce, pine, basswood, popple, and white birch. The charcoal industry thrived on clear-cutting the area of its operation. The forested area of New York's mountains was also decreased by major fires caused by careless lumbermen. Timber thieves stripped the unprotected state-owned lands. And of course the forests were further encroached upon by the settlements and farms that expanded into the interior of both the Adirondacks and the Catskills in the early 1800's. Following a tour of the United States in 1831-32, French nobleman Alexis de Tocqueville wrote of his observations and impressions; "In Europe people talk a great deal of the wilds of America, but the Americans themselves never think about them; they are insensible to the wonders of inanimate nature. Their eyes are fired with another site; they march across these wilds, clearing swamps, turning the courses of rivers'
A large tree can push 150 tons of water into the atmosphere each year, which then falls back on the forest as rain. With no trees, the land will heat up and dry out and the dead wood will inevitably result in enormous wildfires. Huge fires in the 2000's was we did not let fires run their course. Letting dry wood pile deeply up in the forest. Now we know that was a mistake! 1930+ Dust bowl ring a bell???
This is a waste of time. Turning this to environmentalists and one party. It saddens me that, it's become us against them. Start by Texas Senator back in the 80's. Who said fright the other party, no matter what. Good or bad laws. A country divided will not stand. As our enemies laugh with joy, Some have just lost thier way. I am out of here!
All you see at the Stires these days is Samsung and other names that make the crappy cell phones. I don’t want one of those,
I did buy a Bosch. Their customer services blows the big one, but alot of thought went into designs the inside.
i have an older upright freezer in my garage, I’m going to put a solo in carbonite or The Who amp stack graphic on it.
I simply concede that human beings are an invasive species and let the chips fall where they may. We are, in the words of Bill Hicks, "virus in shoes."
One of the best old fridges that didn’t even use electricity was the gas servels.
i hade a few over the years being in the gas industry.. barely used any gas at all. Last one I had I got from and old lady v who got it brand new in the 50’s and was proud that she never plugged it in in all the years she owned it.
One of the best old fridges that didn’t even use electricity was the gas Servel.
We went to a N. Minnesota resort when I was 10. They didn't have electricity but had a refrigerator. I was curious, found a propane line connected, looked through the grille, and saw a flame.
I solved the puzzle when our family got an encyclopedia set a few years later.
Later my best friend had whole-house air conditioning fired with natural gas. It had an enormous outdoor unit. But I didn't have to ask how it worked!
May 19th, 2022, 03:57 PM
