navvet

Ok a bit of hope!!! I think we all no someone who can do brakes. Yes parts may cost a few bucks, but you can find parts stores, or parts supply companies such as USA Parts Supply.com for specialized hard to find parts for your brakes. Talk to your mechanic or his employees and see if one of them wants to do the brake job "on the side". First take it to a mechanic you have confidence and trust...NOT A TIRE AND BRAKE NATIONAL STORE!!!.
No what your complete brake problem is...its important to know the whole problem and then make a plan of attack. I had a handi-man (construction type) help me with my brakes....it cost 50.00 and a six pack an a burger on the grille for his help and a hell of alot more fun then the "wife" being my aid. Nothing against the wives but lets be honest, when that wrench slams into your bare knuckles and all you want to say is @#%&*@#!! the wife just should not be around.

BIGJERR

Keep shopping for a better qoute now that you know whats wrong($500 are you kidding me!)........A CL add for a muscle car guy to swap out the problem might net some surprising results.......Jerr

MDchanic

Fair enough, Rickman, but I'd say your story is an argument for doing it yourself and not letting some stoned kid with a surgically attached iPod do it.

I know this guy isn't an expert, and I would never recommend that he or anyone else attempt any work they weren't sure they could do (or maybe I should use the confidence : competence ratio, which should always, no matter what, represent a value < 1, and say that if he's completely certain he can do it, then maybe he doesn't know what the job entails), but I would classify changing a master as a beginner-level job, the kind of thing I remember doing in a parking lot when I was 18 without a second thought.

I would never try to talk him into doing the job if he felt reticent, but I believe that considering the cost differential of $500 to $20 (that's 25:1), it's only fair to provide him with a description of what's actually entailed in doing the job so that he can weigh his options and make the decision that's right for him. If he puts in a new master and has no brakes, or has a leak he can't stop, he can stay in the driveway and get a tow to the shop of his choice. Perhaps I lack imagination, but I can't see a master cylinder installation scenario that creates a danger of sudden failure on the road if, when the job was done, all fasteners were tight, the brakes worked properly, and there were no leaks.

- Eric

ps: besides, you and I both know that he's going to take it to a shop anyway, right?

Rickman48

Eric - I think we're on the same page - I was only trying to influence a correct job.
Having had a brake line break, in rush hour traffic, approaching 6 cars stopped at the redight in front of me at 45 mph, makes me a little outspoken about brakes!
'65 Jetstar I with the 4:33 gear, [towing package] a working E-brake and downshifting got me stopped, thankfully! Could've been real bad - line broke with the frame, and a single master cylinder!! Welded at a frame shop and line spliced for about $100 - 30 yrs. ago!!
Better to be verbally 'carried away' about brakes, than physically, IMO!
And people who don't know a screwdriver from pliers shoudn't be learning on brakes!

Rick

MDchanic

Single circuit masters scare the crap out of me.


Can't argue there.

- Eric

Joffroi

Thanks for all the help and concern with this issue. I'll be the first to admit that I'm no mechanic (compared to everyone else here), but I am great at following instructions. I'm not saying this compares, but I had to change the water pump on my car. Had no idea what anything was, but was able to read / ask / research enough to do it. Even typed up a tutorial for the next guy like me get some help:
http://www.oldsmobilecentral.com/201...70-cutlass.php

Now, I do understand the concern here since this involves brakes. If I could, I would like to learn how to do these things on my own. I'm a computer engineer, not a mechanic, but I would like to learn. One of the reasons I got the car.

Changing the master cylinder doesn't seem that complicated. I have a friend and a friends dad who know way more about cars then I do that can help. I probably going to follow @MDchanic advice.

Worst case here, I loose about $30 bucks and a couple hours. Dont think when I drive this car I'm cruising down the interstate now. I test it on a straight, no traffic road right outside my house.

Again, thanks for the help and concern, I hope it is something just dealing with the cylinder and booster (but hopefully just the cylinder).

I'm not going to bight off more then I can chew.

Higgins

Speaking of single master cylinders. My 1963 Starfire is a single and I think about that every time I take it out as I have had ruptured lines happen on dual masters and that's scary enough. My GMC blew a line while hauling a trailer and I was stopping for a school bus. That was exciting. Has anyone changed their single to a dual? Just thinking about it I assume I would need 1. dual master 2. proportion valve 3. re-route some brake lines to fit the valve & master. Do 1964 88's have duals? Maybe I could use the parts from that system if they do. Thanks guys for any info.

MDchanic

If you've got drums all around, then no proportioning valve - you just need a master with both halves the same size.

With rare exceptions, dual masters began when they were first required, with the 1967 model year.

I'm sure you can look up your wheel cylinder numbers, check which '67 and later cars used the same cylinders, and then do the plumbing for a master from one of those cars (you could also go for a slightly larger or smaller master cylinder bore to make your brakes harder or softer, as you prefer).
Others here could probably just tell you which units to use off the tops of their heads.

- Eric

joe_padavano

I'm a little surprised at the overly cautious "get a pro" advice offered here. Sure, you need to ensure that the brake system is fully functional, but it's really not that complex. We all had to learn to tell a bleeder from an banjo bolt at one time or another. If you never attempt to do it yourself, you'll never learn. More importantly, there's no guarantee that a shop, especially a discount chain, will do a better job than you would. One thing is for certain, however. Any shop you go to will almost certainly upsell you on repairs.

Get a Chassis Service Manual, take your time, and use common sense. Don't go out on the street until you are sure that the brakes work properly in your driveway. If necessary, find a friend with experience to double check your work. This ISN'T rocket science.

joe_padavano

One more thing. You should be able to get every single part in the brake system for that car brand new from RockAuto for under $300 or so.

Aceshigh

Agreed. You gotta learn to do it yourself, and this isn't that complicated. It's fairly simple.
Maybe some reading on how a brake system (hydraulic) operates will help you.
Once you start pulling things apart you're going to go ....."Wow...that was simple".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgbDyJhBb4c
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...disc-brake.htm

You can do it yourself and use that $500 towards NEW parts. Trust them, you can do it easily.
I just learned how to flush and fill my brake system and change components.
My only advise is don't buy a repop master cylinder replacement. Get a new one from Rock Auto
Properly bench bleeding a new master is key to saving yourself headaches too.

IF you have a compressor in your garage, or can borrow one it makes life 100x easier to bleed your system faster. Harbor Freight has a cheap version of the Vacula system ($200) for only $30. Save the $500 and learn how to do it yourself and spend that money on UPGRADES to your system.

Here's the brake bleeder @ Harbor Freight.
http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-f...der-92924.html
BrakeBleeder01.jpg

joe_padavano

Cool. I didn't know HF was selling those now. I have a real Vaccula that I bought at the Long Beach swap meet about a decade ago for $15. Nobody knew what it was. It is the best way to bleed brakes. You don't even need to bench bleed the MC, since the vacuum bleeder will get all the air out no matter what.

Aceshigh

Joe,

I'd still bench bleed the master. Getting a seal on the bleeder screws isn't something I've
mastered perfectly yet. I was told to crack the bleeder and put grease around it's base
to somewhat seal it. Other people said not to do that because you'll contaminate the fluid.

The Vacula siphons air from around the bleeder threads if you don't. At least that's been my experience so far.
It's not a perfect science.....lets put it that way. LOL

They sell those $10 bleeder screws with that tough thread coating to seal them, I've been considering buying them.

Joffroi

Well, this past weekend was warm enough to work in my garage (32 degrees) to try to tackle this project. I replaced the master cylinder and bled all the brake (with only breaking 1 bleeder bolt :-/) But I was able to flush the fluid. Took my car out for the first time in 3 months and stopped like a champ going about 45mph. I haven't yet tested going 60+ but it was completely responsive on the drive I took.

Thanks to everyone that helped with the advice here. I typed up a quick tutorial on changing the master cylinder and I'll get another one for bleeding when I can.

http://www.oldsmobilecentral.com/201...r-cylinder.php

Thanks again

MDchanic

Nice writeup! Glad it worked out well for you.

Also, now you've got another skill, and more confidence and "feel" for when you go after the next one.

And I think $22 beat the bejeezus out of $500 .

You ARE going to change out that cracked hose (and have a close look at the rest of them) before you start really driving it in the spring, right?

- Eric

Joffroi

I think I'm just going to find all the cheap parts and start replacing. Now that I actually know a little more on what I'm doing, I might as well.

MDchanic

☠Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!☠

Now THAT's the spirit, matey!

- Eric

kenbarls

There might has a small hole that cause leaking. Check the hose and the cover of it.

Joffroi

I thought I updated this thread.

The issue was just bad break fluid and a bad master cylinder. I went to advance auto parts and got a new master cylinder for about $20 and new brake fluid. With the help and advice from here, I replaced the master cylinder, flushed the brake fluid, and bled the brakes. Now my car is running and stopping like a champ. Thanks for the help. I saved a couple hundred dollars and learned quite a bit.

I typed up a tutorial of what I did for anyone else that may have this issue:
http://www.oldsmobilecentral.com/201...r-cylinder.php

Lady72nRob71

Sounds like you saved a couple hundred bucks - more than twice!!
Congrats on a job well done. Now treat yourself to a case o' beer!