cutlassefi

I have a 222/228@.050 on a 110 roller coming for another build but I could send this to you instead. Lift is .544 on both. If you’re looking for a match to the TQ40 this would be really close.

ajr2820

Being that I am a ways away from being ready for a cam again, go ahead and use it. I will contact you about getting one ground in a few weeks.

cutlassefi

OK let me know, best of luck, thanks!

GOSFAST

I would just put 2 "tips" here for you, first, make certain to have the water pump bolted in place when checking the cam end-play. It MAY change the number, it did on our last 455" build.

Second, you'll probably have to "window" the "tin" intake gasket if you plan to use it (recommend to use it) with the hyd-roller lifters!

You should hit your 450 number easily!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. We do 410+ with 9.5/9.75 C.R. and Comp's 218* @ 050" cams. All 100% stock-appearing components, Q-jet intake, stock exh manifiolds, and stock valve covers, full roller build!

ajr2820

Just took the block and crank back to the machine shop. Now we wait. I'm expecting the line bore to be off. After placing the crank in with only the #1 & #5 shells in, I measured less than 0.001" runout on #3 journal. By the eye it was @ 0.0005".

VORTECPRO

I'd be expecting the main bearing clearance is tight. Did you ck runout on #4?

ajr2820

I'd like a bit of input on main bearing selection. Which brands do you use? Tri or bi-metal? My process for determining clearances this go around will be as follows:
1. mic each journal individually
2. Zero my dial bore gauge to the mic
3. measure the main bore which is torqued to spec with no bearing installed
4. Use an "anvil mic" to measure bearing thickness
5. Perform the math to determine clearances

Is this the best way to accomplish this? The last go around I simply had the crank checked. It was untouched and met the standards from factory specs, so I used std bearings and plastigaged them. They were all within factory specs per the service manual...and then this happened. Final question: Would you run specs different from the factory on this build? Or better yet, what would you run for main clearances in this case?

OLDSter Ralph

Was the crank main bearing journals ever checked for run out ?

cutlassefi

Federal Mogul 108M on the mains.
.003 on 1-4, the better part of .004 on the rear (that shell is thinner anyway).
Stock rods, .003-.0035, H beams .0027-.003.
Shoot for .014+ on side clearance.
If you do this, and the align hone was done correctly, you should have 0 issues.

Best of luck.

ajr2820

Thanks as always Mark. Based on this, I was too tight. SM has 1-4 listed at .0005-.0021”. I was on the high side of that, but not at .003” for sure. I was right at .002”. I used H beams and was at .003”. Rods all were good other than a few specks of impregnation from the mains being galled. The rod bearings did their job.

ajr2820

Yes. Measured less than 0.001”. By my eye, more like0.0005”. The dial measures in 0.001” increments.

cutlassefi

You’re welcome.
As you make more horsepower you have to open up the clearances to a point. Even though you may be using good parts, the crank and block will still move around, necessitating the larger clearances.

VORTECPRO

1. Measure the main housing bores and make sure they are in spec with no taper
2. TQ up the mains with the bearings installed
3. Measure the bearings with a SUNNEN dial bore and note sizes 1-5
4. Have the crank ground by a competent shop based on your measurments, I give the # 5 main journal an extra .0005 clearance
5. Ck the clearances again after the crank has been ground and CK the run out on the snout, rear main seal journal, and #2 #3#4

cutlassefi

You might need to do that on a Chevy but you don’t need to on an Olds. The #5 bearing shells are each already .0004 thinner giving the extra clearance needed.

VORTECPRO

Most BBC # 5 bearing shells have extra clearance as well, we grind a lot of high end cranks in my shop, I like an extra .0005 clearance on # 5 myself. Based on the success I have, I see no reason to change. My Buick has those ridiculously big journals, every time I tear it apart I try to fine tune the bearing clearance, definitely a learning experience. I don't run the Olds @ .003 myself, at 5300 RPM that might work.

VORTECPRO

GARY

What do you clearance the Olds 455 at?

GOSFAST

Hi Mark, that one has .0025" on the mains with Clevite brgs and .0025" on the rods, also Clevites!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I was OK with those clearances for this unit, it is a "cruiser" only and will never see any real high RPM use! It has the Eagle H-beams and is running fine still! For a "race" unit I would use just a bit more on the mains only! Just delivered a Pontiac with .003"+ on the mains.

VORTECPRO

Thanks

ajr2820

The machine shop just called. The line bore was straight...the main bores were on the tight end of spec so he "swished" them out 0.001". The crank was confirmed to have 0.0005" runout which was what I measured. Ordered a set of 108M main bearings and will try this again.

cutlassefi

Hope he didn't go outside the spec though.
And this is a reason to seldom trust Plastigage.

Best of luck.

ajr2820

Lesson learned. That’s why I bought a set of Mitutoyo mics. Verify every measurement.

ajr2820

So my machinist recommended putting oil restrictors in main bores 2,3, and 4 to restrict flow to keep oil on the mains longer. I can see theoretically where this works, but have heard many people who swear by it and those who do not. Seeing as how I've had the issues I've had, is this a good idea? Is there anything else that needs done along with this? I have seen where some drill out the bearings to 17/64" then elongate the holes in the bearings. Is this a common practice? Am I overthinking this? I just want to be sure I'm covering all the bases.

Battenrunner

In my opinion, and proven by our last engine build, restrict the oil flow up top with restricted pushrods and fully rear grooved dura bond cam bearings installed with the oil holes at 3 O'clock.

The oil control of the Smith Bros. restricted pushrods and these Dura Bond cam bearings installed in this manner were able to maintain 60PSI of oil pressure at and up to 5700rpm measured with 10w40 Maxima dino juice that was plenty hot. This was running the 108M 2/3 groove main bearings with clearances set to .003 on Main bearings 1-4, .0035 on #5, and .0027 clearance on all the rod bearings with .018 side clearance (I believe) on the rod journals.

We have ran the oil restrictors in the main galleys before, but, we never really found the oil pressure to be satisfactory on past builds, as the oil control was never ideal above 4500rpm. By restricting the oil through the restricted pushrods, everything still gets plenty of oil on the rockers and valvesprings up top, but, the valve covers don't become completely flooded. We also enlarged and ported the oil return holes in the corners of the head and the block areas where it drains back better/ faster.

ajr2820

Also, I could not find a definitive answer on this anywhere, the galley plug with the hole on the front goes on which side? The machine shop removed them for cleaning and reinstalled them. I'm pretty sure he put them back in the wrong position...I'm just not 100% sure of this.

cutlassefi

Don’t waste your money on oil restricters. Use restricted pushrods, the bearings and clearances both Battenrunner and I mentioned before and you’ll be fine..

ajr2820

I'm having another issue. I measured the clearance last night on main #1. It is at 0.004". I mic'd the crank journal, set my dial bore gage to that value, and measured the bore with the cap torqued and the bearings in place. I also double checked this number with plastigage and it was the same. I have not measured the other locations yet due to time constraints last night, but after measuring all the crank journals, I expect them to be similar. What are my options here? I have not located any 0.001" undersized main bearings for the 455. Is anyone aware of where I could find any?

matt69olds

I’m not an expert engine builder, but I wouldn’t worry about that. It’s a little looser than the factory recommended, but much more preferable than too tight.

cutlassefi

I agree, to a point.
Mic the crank, dial bore the mains without the bearings, then mic the bearings with a ball end mic, mic them in the middle as they have taper. Then subtract the journal size and bearing halves from the main saddle bore size. That’ll give you your theoretical clearance.
Don't thrust the plastigage, and the dial bore could be digging into the bearing a bit. That’ll give you a false reading every time.

ajr2820

I can definitely do it that way. I have the proper tools. I was just concerned that the clearance is more than you had recommended in earlier posts. Lets assume I find that the others have the same clearance I expect. Would you run it that way? BTW, I only used the plastigage to confirm my reading with the bore gage. I am not using it as the end all, be all measurement.

cutlassefi

I’d probably run it that way, BTR runs them that loose. It’s just just that I don’t see an absolute need to.
What dimension does the crank mic out at?

ajr2820

2.9991" +/-0.0001" across the board. Don't remember which journals measured which without my notes in front of me. I suppose I'd need to run 15W-40 or 20W-50 then....just to be safe?

cutlassefi

So you’re .0002 under the low. That normally doesn’t equate to that much bearing clearance. What do the main saddles measure?

ajr2820

I'll have to take those measurements tonight.

VORTECPRO

You really should pay attention to this:


1. Measure the main housing bores and make sure they are in spec with no taper
2. TQ up the mains with the bearings installed
3. Measure the bearings with a SUNNEN dial bore and note sizes 1-5
4. Have the crank ground by a competent shop based on your measurments, I give the # 5 main journal an extra .0005 clearance
5. Ck the clearances again after the crank has been ground and CK the run out on the snout, rear main seal journal, and #2 #3#4


And this is only good with the proper measuring equipment which you do not have. Find a competent shop if you can.

cutlassefi

VTP, I guess you missed this?

ajr2820

#1 3.1890"
#2 3.1895"
#3 3.1892"
#4 3.1890"
#5 3.1890"
Clearances from 1-5 : 0.0036", 0.0040", 0.0043", 0.0041", 0.0047"
Clearances based on your suggested way of measurement.

ajr2820

Saw it. I guess he must have seen my shop and determined that my Mitutoyo mics and bore gage were junk
I hope he is OK with Mac and Snap on tools. Otherwise I'll need all new tools. That would affect the budget for my build!

cutlassefi

Those numbers make sense, very poor align hone job, you’re at or above the spec. That will effect bearing crush as well. The spec is 3.188-3.189. Have them do it again, this is unacceptable.
After they redo it you may need a +.005 chain set as well. They’ll be effecting the crank to cam distance in a negative way. They should pay for that too.
Hope this helps.

VORTECPRO

That type of dial bore gauge "Mitutoyo" is not made for measuring bearings as the ball will imbed itself into the bearing, not sure how much, but it could read big. A Sunnen dial bore gauge is what you need.

VORTECPRO

Ok.....so heres what you can do: It is possible your machinist can cut the number 2 3 4 and 5 cap slightly in the cap cutter to tighten the housing bore bringing your bearing clearance down to where you want it. It can be done, but it must be done with the utmost care. You possibly could use a surface plate and sand paper as well. In your case I prefer the second option myself. You can make this work.