oldzy

Just wonderin how many here converted from an auto to a 4spd, and any pros/cons you might have? ie. you now don't have to worry about overheating transmission, cooler, leaking trans pan, having 3 gears as opposed to 4 now, etc.

I already know of all the parts to get and drilling the crankshaft etc. (I have a blown TH350 at present), and still contemplating going to a 4-spd Muncie (don't really want a 5-spd). If I do go the 4spd route, I am then hung on an old original Muncie M20, or a new AutoGear M20, or their M22W or M22Z. I am just trying to picture a 72 Cutlass Supreme with a noisy 'rockcrusher' M22.

My goal is to rebuild my 350 engine to ~ 9.5;1 compression. I also had my rear end rebuilt several months ago from a 2.73 open to 3.42 posi.

oldzy

How do you put a tranny cooler on a Muncie? I have never seen such a thing before.

Aceshigh

I misread your post. I deleted it. LOL

Why would you NOT want a 5th gear for overdrive??
Hell I'd put a 6 speed in for the double OD. I've had one sitting and waiting for a year now.
I'm just holding off on using it til I upgrade the engine if I do.

You'd be the first guy I've heard say they don't want better gas mileage when gas is almost $5 for premium.
Unless cost is really the prohibitive factor here.

oldzy

I could care less about gas mileage. It is only going to be driven a few months out of the year, on weekends and some weekdays.

EDIT: I hate the hwy anyway... I really can't stand going to the car wash after being on the hwy EVERY time cleaning bugs off my front end, hood, etc. (and that lovely SMELL of the engine warming up the dead bugs... mmmm) Unless perhaps if it is in the early fall months when there is no salt and crap on the roads.

oldzy

The only other manual I was considering was the 5-spd (TKO 600 IIRC). I have not written it off yet. I hear they shift funny or differently though, and not as strong as the Muncie. Of course, that is from various ppls opinions I have seen so far.

stan 65 cutlass

hey oldzy, figured i better post something now cuz it looks like your talking to yourself. lol i didnt convert,mine was factory, but if you reverse the question would i pull the 4 speed and put in a slush box? not a chance. ya the highway sucks, but i should have taller tires. if you want to feel like your driving the car not just aiming and hanging on. my opinion

ziff396

2nd. Sure it would be great, but I like my 455 just the way it is. Evening and weekend cruises. Not much highway anyways. I will still bet it gets better milage than my 10 Silverado 5.3 with the 6 speed hauling my trailer all week. 8-9mpg My 08 2500 with the 6.0 6 speed got around 6-7 At least I gained a little. So actually, it is not much difference to me. If I want milage, I will just drive my wifes Intrepid that gets 28 with the dreaded 2.7.

My442

I did it to my 70 442.

Used all GM parts.

The tranny was a M21 rebuilt with M22 gears - it really whines!

Rear end is a 3.91

Best thing I did to the car!

Nilsson

If it doesn't have a clutch you don't have much.

Muncie 4-speeds rock the fun factor.

507OLDS

I'll be starting another auto to 4-spd swap this weekend,on a 71 442.I will be doing everything factory-correct.The transmission is a correct 71 Muncie M20,with the fine-spline input shaft,and large TH400 style output shaft,just as they did in 1971.GM pedals,Z-bar,linkage,etc.All reconditioned & restored original GM parts.Correct 4-spd shifter,consople,etc. He drops it off,and picks it up done. $3500.00

TRW

Brian, Does that price include all the parts? If so, that's a great deal!.

Tom

507OLDS

Yes,that includes all of the parts,the reconditioning/restoring of the parts,the new parts(clutch,bearings,boots,etc.),and the labor to do the whole conversion.He's driving a little over an hour to get here,and will be driving it back.

TRW

Great deal!

Tom

507OLDS

Yes,it is a deal,believe it or not. Those that have actually done it would know.The rebuilt 71 M20 alone is $1,000.00.Those cost a little more as a core,with the fine-spline input/large output,but the same to rebuild.All of the parts that were originally painted,get blasted,primed,painted,and all the parts that were originally plated,get replated their original colors.The people that have done conversions like this before,like myself,can do it fairly quick,so the hours of labor are down.It will take me about 12hrs to do it,start to finish,15hrs at the most,and it can't be done any better.

oldzy

"and it can't be done any better"

So you are the best of the best?

aliensatemybuick

Far be it for me to speak for anyone, but perhaps what he meant what it can't be done better than using all factory parts and using proper finishes.

507OLDS

The best is the only way I will do it,or you can do it yourself. The last thing I need is to cut a corner,then have someone other than the customer see my work,and get the misunderstanding that all of my work is like that. If there is a situation where I myself cannot make it the way it should be,but know it can be done,I will find the person,company,etc.,that will. The next time I do another conversion,it will probably cost more,depending on what the parts will cost.I still have my own assortment,and I know what I have in them,but what I will pay for more nice stuff is yet to be deterimined.I don't want to use stuff like linkage rods,with worn ends either,as they will never work like new.I have taken some pieces,like the eylet in the clutch pedal,and the eylet in the z-bar,and made solid steel bushings to press-in,for a nice firm,crisp function.The original bushing for the pedal is plastic,and the original for the z-bar is rubber,and they will work,but most of today's clutches will put more stress on them,and wear them even faster than they did before.For some of my street/strip applications,I have mad rods with the sperical bushing rod ends,but they are too noticable in a restoration application.
It's just like the rearends I build,and anything else.I get the input from the customer,about the car,and what the intentions are with it.Then I can map-out the best way to do it.

My442

It is time consuming to find all the parts.

Then, you have to paint/plate them.

Have the shifter and tranny rebuilt.

The KEY is to have the crank machined for the correct pilot bearing.

The rest is just wrenching.

I did mine in a 1 car garage on jackstands.

oldzy

My plan was to get all repro parts, but look for an orig z-bar, as well as an orig shifter (and handle) and have the shifter rebuilt.

There is an eBay user with 100% feedback who rebuilds Muncies. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-Mu...-/320680606025 is an example.$1100+ seems a little pricey to me for an M20 though, when a brand spankin new AutoGear M22W can be had for $1995. Have to take eBay/PP fees into acct I guess.

oldzy

I have another question... how hard is the clutch pedal to push in? Is it a very tight spring?

Reason I ask is b/c of another factor in the auto -> 4spd conversion choice... bad left knee. A bully at least 30 years ago when I was in like grade one or something picked me up and dropped me on the pavement, and of course landed on my left knee. Needless to say it HURT (nothing broke though), left a nice scar, and also a small protruding bump after several years. It has been more of a problem the past 6 years or so. So I wondering if all this might be for nothing.

Thx.

oldzy

And another... I have a column shift... can I use this column and remove the piece where the lever connects, and replace with a piece w/o that hole for the lever?

507OLDS

The M20 in the ebay link is a little much.That style of M20 is easier to find,and they can be had for $900.00 or less.
I have taken the repop z-bars,when needed,and drilled-out the hole for the pedal rod,and pressed-in a steel bushing.The way they make that z-bar you would have the pedal rod riding on the thin steel of the z-bar,which is only going to cut into each other & get sloppy.Then they have the squarich end on it,which can be ground & shaped,to look more like the original. You see why I pay more for a real one? Either way,you pay for it.
As for your column,you can remove your handle,and use that cloumn with the 4-spd.One time I made 2 small tabs & mounted a tach to that bump on the column.Pretty slick.
If you look at the firewall seal on the column plate,you will see the perforated circle that you would remove for the rod boot.That can be used as a guide to holesaw the plate.Then you would just need the boot & retainer,which can be bought new.

ziff396

As far as my column, I just ground off the shifter hump, finished and painted. t400 w duel gate. I then mounted the tach old school to keep anything from moving. A clamp