Hi I have a 69 cutlass with a 350, St-300 transmission and I am having trouble going much faster than about 50mph without running the rpms up too high. I'm thinking the issue is the 3.90 gears I put in the rear end ( it used to have like 2.55s) but it still seems like I should be able to do alot better than 50. Anyway do you think this is just my gears or is something else causing it? Also I'd like to keep my gears for a quick low end but then I have to switch to an overdrive which leads me to my next questions of what's a decent price for a 200r4? What does it require to install? And what are some good donor cars to get one from.
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide

 

No baby steps for you - 2.55 to 3.90 !

By 50 mph those 3.90's will have the engine singing a bit, especially if you have roughly stock diameter tires.

Doesn't sound like you have a problem other than "cruising rpm aversion".

If you decide to go 200-4R don't try to cheat it, buy the good stuff from a specialty builder first time & then make sure the TV cable is properly adjusted. You should do some searches on the various Olds boards regarding 200's, lockup setups, etc. Visit www.turbobuick.com & look in the "Transmission Talk" forum to read stickies on mod procedures & who's who of competent, trustworthy trans builders.

Good bets are Chris @ CK or Dave Husek, both in NY, Lonnie Diers (Extreme Automatics) in mid America, Bruce Toelle of PTS Xtreme in Cali. There are others but those are some of the main players by region.

If you go this route, be sure to get converter recommendations from the builders & don't scrimp there either.

Budget is gonna be roughly $3k for a very good trans & converter.

 

Just changing to a 3 speed tranny would help I'd think. TH350. But 3.90 is low.

 

Well the final drive on a 3 speed is still 1:1 so it would be the same thing I thought about that and called a shop and they said it wouldn't help. I wish that was a solution itd be easier and cheaper than an overdrive

 

Gotcha. I couldnt find the ratio with a quick google. OD it is. Or taller tires. I run a 28 inch tire 275/60/15.

 

Not to be a ____buster, but you go from a set of highway gears to 3:90 and then ask why it won't go fast? C'mon.
You can't have it both ways (at least not with less than six speeds ).

- Eric

 

But both ways would be so nice! I was pretty sure it was the gears I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something that would be an easy fix before I started spending more money. Looks like an overdrive is definately next on the list. If I did switch the gears again what would be a good ratio to put back in there? Somebody told me like a 3.30 would work any other suggestions?

 

Just checked back in, pieces mentioned can add up to an alternative solution but your still gonna be approaching the ballpark of going OD. IMO that 2 speed is useless for daily, pleasure, or performance driving. Leaves a lot on the table performance & economy wise. You can go 3 spd & lighten up the rear end ratio but why not have some cake & eat it too?

Change gears back to a mid 3's ratio= $700ish
Moderately strengthened TH 350, converter, etc= $1200 to 1500 (?)

If you are not making appreciable torque you could probably do a less strengthened 200 & get out of conversion for $2k (builder guidelines still apply). Going that route, you're in for roughly even money, get your 3.90's w/ a fairly low first gear, 2200-2400 rpm cruising locked up @ 70mph depending on tire size. If you are making or intend to make say 400 ft/lbs then you need to go w/ the stronger billet trannies for reliability.

Even if it takes a little longer to save $$ for the build, think of how a little extra outlay now avoids additional $$ later on + the satisfaction & drivability you gain. If you keep car for a few years & use it regularly, you probably could make up the difference in gas! I, like many others have had trials & tribulations w / 200's but mostly positive. I have hurt a few but one was a driveshaft break, one I twisted the input shaft (@ 300 hp to the wheels), one just went soft on the 2-3 shift. These were middle of the road builds that held up for years but eventually succumbed to decent but hardly high power. That said, I'm picking up a new full billet 200 this weekend & I am psyched to get it in the car before a track day @ end of month. I am hoping to put down some high 11's w/ a real trans shifting @ 5600 rpm instead of the 4800 rpm my untested "spare" was running last visit. This in an otherwise docile car that I could pretty comfortably get in & drive cross country if I wanted to. When I go to the track I drive 100 miles on secondary roads each way, make 12-15 passes & get home with 1/4 tank of gas left. That would not be possible without the OD trans even considering I never seem to get going quite fast enough to allow the converter to lock up since we always seem to get stuck behind slower cars that won't go 50mph - my car doesn't want to go less than about 55 locked up.

I love the way these cars drive w/ the 200 - they rip out of the hole, shift beautifully under varied conditions (if built & calibrated well) & I don't need to tell you what a HUGE rpm drop for cruising in OD would do for your pleasure as well as making the car more versatile for use.

I realize I may sound like the spokesman for The Retrofit OD Tranny Society but I get around a fair number of muscley cars & this is almost as good as it gets - next to a nice 5 or 6 speed manual! I have become soft in my middle age & love the automatic but there is nothing like rowing a stick w/ some power behind it.

One last note - We just removed the TH350 in kid's red car & installed a used, stock BRF 200 & it literally transformed the car. Better acceleration whether moderate or aggressive, clean, crisp shifts, hits OD just above 40mph. It took a very good daily driver & made it an excellent driver. This kid was distressed @ his highway rpm when we swapped out 2.78 for 3.08 (w/ 3 spd), never mind a gap like your swap! You can bet this kid is smiling every time that shift into OD happens. It probably gets bigger and actually twinkles when the converter locks up & another 200-300 rpm fallback feels like a 5th gear spinning 1900 rpm @ 70mph w/ 26" tire.

 

I would much rather do the overdrive I guess the search for an overdrive begins! And I'm not really sure how much power im going to be making Its a 355 with flat top pistons, performer plus cam, port and polished heads, roller rockers, performer rpm intake, Holley 670, I'd love to have it tested someday but from that any guesses at the power and how built my tranny would need to be?

 

If you are going into drive than you should not have a problem running down the road well above 50. You should have been able to run close to 100 in first
with the 2:56 before going into drive.

 

For figuring trans build, I would use 325-350hp/400 ft/lbs @ the crank w/ that combo well tuned. You don't want to sell it short but many tend to be a tad optimistic when guessing power output, I figure this as cautiously optimistic.

This puts you right in the danger zone on a "stage 1" (I hate that term!) & the low end of needing a billet filled unit. Once you narrow down sources for a builder, let them guide you on what you need. I am one of those "overkill is just about right" types w/ many things, so based on other's and my own experience, I would go to the better unit but chances are the lesser unit would give good service unless you are beating it regularly.

Also keep in mind that I advocate the 200 partly because it is such a clean, uncomplicated swap into these cars. There are other transmissions out there that have similar advocates &
haters as well but I don't think you can really beat the ease of conversion, performance & cost combo the 200 offers. You may get some other opinions on this thread yet.

Good luck & keep us posted on your search, ask Q's (can you tell I'll offer you an opinion?!?) as you go along & let us know how it works out in the end.

Firefrost - LOL - I had a 68 w/ 2 speed when I was a kid & don't remember my 1-2 manual shift point but I think it was in the 70-80 mph range! IIRC I would do 2-1 downshifts @ 50-60 mph to help save a little friction for those front drums when the heat set in!

 

Thanks for all the help I bought the car when I was 14 and have been restoring it for the last 3 years just trying to learn everything I can and make a sweet car I'm sure I will be back for more wisdom I'll post up here later once I get this deal figured out

 

That's great! Red car is similar situation. We bought the car when kid was 13, restored it over a few years & registered it 2 weeks before high school graduation, just in time for prom. He put untold hours & effort into the project & ended up w/ quite a nice car.

The beauty is that you don't have to do everything @ once. Get a strong foundation built & then you can tweak it. We've only had to go back & spend money over again once. 200 was not originally in the plan, so when we installed it we ran into a problem w/ position of X pipe in exhaust when trans crossmember was repositioned further back. So, that turned out to be the headers for birthday deal & a new exhaust to the mufflers but even that just sweetened the package. Car is actually quieter now, better throttle response & really sounds nice. I just hooked up my wideband gauge to see what affect headers have on the carb calibration.

He just went back to school so I can drive the car now & then + do a little tuning. In Dustin Hoffman's words, it's an "excellent driver".

 

With my 66 lemans 326 st 300 2:56 gears 245 -14s it was a slow to get rolling but from 50 up it was a fun on the freeway I have since changed to a th 350 I too if had to redo it I would look into a 200r4 also the 350 pulls away from a dead stop better and run's down the freeway at 70 75 with trafic but gear spacing is still far apart.

 

I would bet that a rebuilt 2004r trans with premium clutches and band would handle a mild 350. Use a Grand National intermediate servo (or aftermarket equvalent) and a GOOD shift kit (CK Performance is the best in my opinion) and enjoy! Make sure the TV cable is installed and adjusted correctly, use a good converter and a trans cooler and if you leave the engine alone it will live.