Bansheeman6100

well, was going to rebuild the TH350 for my project, but scored a supposed low-mileage 200R4 for $200 today, so plans have changed a bit. i have seen a few write-ups on this swap, but had a few specific questions. first is:

-will i be able to get this to work with my 2bbl carb on factory manifold, or do i need to start keeping an eye open for a different setup?

-i have heard of the 200R4 having trouble holding the TQ on a BOP motor, can anyone that is currently running one comment? and are there a few upgrades that should be added before install? the motor is a 350 Rocket, and will have a RV cam, hearers and 2 a/4 dual exhaust, and depending upon the requirement possibly a 4-bbl and intake

- what all will i need to do, IE TV cable, and i understand i will need a lock-up converter and a solenoid? the car is a S model with a column shifter

- what would a good stall-speed be?

one main reason i was looking at a OD transmission is that this will be a drivers car, and i love driving high-way. this will be a dialy-driver, or switched between often for daily status.

Fun71

What rear gear ratio do you currently have? If it's the typical 2.56:1 then it's already a highway cruiser with ~2000 RPM @ 60 MPH, depending upon rear tire height.

FYI, I drove mine daily since 1990 with 3.23 rear gears and short (25.6" tall) 245-60-14 tires with the engine turning ~2600 RPM @ 60 MPH.

Bansheeman6100

i will be running roughly a 27" tire. but i like the idea of OD, and have never been a fan of the non-OD cars i have owned. the cost involved with this swap really is not that great, and the benefit seems well worth it. i know the 200R4 has a bit of a rap for not handling torque, but there are plenty of high-power cars running them. and highway speeds here are WELL above 60mph, with most highways having a speed limit of 75mph. and with LT's and a free-flowing exhaust, its going to be loud as is, so i want to keep the highway RPM's low for comfort and MPG to a point

joe_padavano

Any 200-4R (it is not a 200R4) for $200 will not live for long behind a 350 Olds motor. These transmissions need specific internal upgrades with aftermarket parts to survive behind anything other than a 140 HP 307.

I don't believe a 200-4R was ever factory installed in a car with a 2GC carb. You'll need to custom fabricate a lever to actuate the TV cable. If you had a Qjet, the easy option is to swap the primary throttle shaft with one from an unloved CCC Qjet, which has the TV cable attachment point on it.

It doesn't matter if it's a BOP, Chevy, or Honda motor, the 200-4R won't live for long with over 300 ft-lbs or so, especially in a heavy car. One excellent vendor for parts and info is CK Performance. Their $80 200-4R rebuild and modification manual is money well spent. They sell all the custom parts needed to make these transmissions handle higher torque (they build 200-4R transmissions for 9 second turbo Buick cars). There are also other, equally capable vendors - this is one I have experience with.

You can build the 200-4R with or without lockup - your call. If you do plan to use lockup, the converter and solenoid are in the trans. You need an actuation system, which can be as simple as a toggle switch and as complicated as an aftermarket electronic unit.

It depends on the car and what you plan to do with it. For a 2bbl car that's street driven, stock stall speed will be fine.

Bansheeman6100

thanks for the advice. i know that it will not last long is stock form, that is why i was looking for the parts list that would be needed for an upgrade. im not looking to replace every single hard part, as i know there are a certain few that seem to be culprit. and i hate to do it, but if i have to i can swap to a edelbrock intake and carb setup to get this to work properly, though im going to try andget it working on the 2bbl for now. so as for lock-up, i would like to do it. i just need to find the proper way to wire it in to actuate it. i'd like it to be an automatic operation, and not a manual as i have seen some guys wire up. and what would a stock stall be on this transmission, 18-2200?

droldsmorland

X10 what Joe said. Do a search here. This has been discussed nearly as many times as the C.S. engine off-set myth.
Several vendors cater to the TH2004R HiPo crowd. Some at the 750-1000HP range! 10 years ago I would have said no way to this swap. But the aftermarket has stepped up to the call. Coan, TCI, California Performance Trans(Art Carr), Hughes etc...
Stock stall is dependent on the application and which converter is there.
Art Carr sells a 200 thats rated up to 400hp for $1600 with a warranty

Bansheeman6100

im not interested in buying another transmission, as i have one here that i would like to use. and yes, it has been discussed, but not clearly laid out as to what upgrades. i found 1 thread that listed a few, and a few others that linked to other sites. so far from what i've found it seems like the front drum, and possibly a master kit while im at it.

Professur

There were th200-4r's that came from the factory ready for power. There are also many more that weren't. Use this page http://web.archive.org/web/200701281.../thm2004r.html to decode your tag to know what you've got. Without knowing what you've got, it's impossible to say what you need.

Bansheeman6100

thanks, THIS was VERY helpful info. here is what i found:

the top of the case is marked 409 G

the yellow tag is marked

CR F
085-872cr 1498

seems that it is out of a 85-88 LG4 305 powered Monte Carlo/Pontiac Grand Prix

droldsmorland

I believe Coan did a great write up in HotRod a few years back. Coan and CPT both have friendly tech lines. Give them a shout. Why not glean some guidance from the experts.

Sampson

You may have the experience and expertise to upgrade the 200r4 to handle more power. Just be aware that it is more to it than bolting in new parts. Port holes are redrilled and some custom fab work. I bought mine from Lonnie at Extreame Automatics. Here is his link and it shows what parts he installs for each level of performance. http://www.extremeautomatics.com/th2004R.php. It also has some very good info regarding TV Cable adjustment. Lonnie offers good advice. I followed his directions to a T and the transmission performed flawlessly right out of the box. Good luck with yours. There is a lot of info on the web for this swap. Most of them reflect a lot of frustration.

Professur

While that's a whole lot better place to start than the pitiful OG, you do have to remember that the Monte Carlo was still a sub-200 hp car ... and that bowtie block was a long way behind the Olds torque numbers. Given what you've got ... this will probably be a good page to start chewing on http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/tra...mission-build/.

Bansheeman6100

Again, awesome help, thank you. I emailed him to get an idea on what he would recommend, and how he would go about it. That article is interesting, as they say stay away from the lock up feature, which I may do

GINCSC

Any thoughts of the 200r4 trans from these guys?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004R-Stage-...-/181659908761

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181662410016

TexasT

Never heard of them. I would steer clear of the Kevlar band in a 2004r. They have a tendancy to overheat and warp the drum. A carbon band is a better choice imo.
I would also include a larger rev boost valve and boost spring to get the pressures up. I'm not sure what they do to the planetaries for better lubrication but I would reccomend a bearing to replace the bushing in the o/d planet.
I don't like the superior servo as it leaves out one of the cushion springs and you end up with a clunk on the 3-2 down shift. The ck or sonnax are better even though they cost more, imo.
Lots of opinions on 2004r. These are a few of mine.

GINCSC

Thanks

Is there any issues using a dual gate shifter with a 200r4?

joe_padavano

You have two options. First, if you can find one of the ultra-rare and no-longer-in-production four speed dual gate shifters that Hurst sold (aftermarket only), you can adapt it to the factory console. These items are very hard to find and sell for stupid money when one does come up for sale.

The other option is the Shiftworks conversion kit. A member of our club has one in his 72. I am not impressed. Fourth gear (the OD position) ends up where Neutral used to be, and Neutral, Reverse, and Park are all crammed in the remaining space. I didn't care for it.

GINCSC

Thanks Joe you are a wealth of knowledge.
I really think you should change your user name to Joe bi-Wan Kenobi the Jedi Olds Master.

I just changed my rear gear from a 2.56 to a 3.42 and the tach used to be 2k at 60 mph now it's about 3900. I thought it would be around 2400. So I was thinking of switching to a 200r4 from my th350 and I already have a factory dual gate.

I've only driven it once since I got it back. I need to check and make sure it's shifting into 3rd gear.

Any opinions??

joe_padavano

Yeah, the math suggests that there's something else wrong. If the only change you made was the gears, if you really were seeing 2,000 RPM at 60 MPH with the 2.56 gears, then you will be seeing just under 2,700 RPM at 60 with the new gears. Now, if you are in second gear with those 3.42s at 60, then 4,000 RPM is about right.

GINCSC

Thanks Joe

ScottMHoffman

I did this in my car 72 Cutlass with a 455. Would not do it again. It cost to much. By the time you rebuild the trans, purchase a new drive shaft, purchased the shiftworks conversion kit, bracket to attach ITV cable to the carb, and lock up controller, your $200 will be a minor part of the upgrade.

droldsmorland

joeWiktionary, wikiJoe, wikiPadavano, Joepedia... couldn't resist sorry...Not sure which one I like the best...Joe?

TexasT

Let me get this straight. You pulled a th350 and installed the th2004r? Should have been able to reuse the driveshaft. What does the shiftworks conversion kit do? Ck performance has a nifty lock up kit that I think is reasonably priced.
Do you have a total that you spent?

Sampson

[QUOTE] The other option is the Shiftworks conversion kit. A member of our club has one in his 72. I am not impressed. Fourth gear (the OD position) ends up where Neutral used to be, and Neutral, Reverse, and Park are all crammed in the remaining space. I didn't care for it.[/QUOTE

Joe could you elaborate on what you did not like about the shift works kit. That up grade is next on my to do list. Right now I am using the original 3 speed Dual Gate. Everything is where it is supposed to be, but you cannot get to 1rst gear. IE: 1st gear on the shifter is really 2nd, 2nd is 3rd and 3rd is OD. I planned to change over to the shift works deal but it may not be worth the change.

joe_padavano

First, second, and third with the Shiftworks kit are in the same place as first, second, and drive in the stock configuration. They have to be for the dual gate to work on upshifts. The problem is that OD ends up in the former neutral position, and neutral, reverse, and park are crammed into the space that formerly only accommodated reverse and park. The kit does this by varying lever arm ratios. The result was that the shifter didn't feel right. It also took some tinkering to get the cable adjusted properly to match the shifter detent locations. All in all, it was not that great a product.

I'm holding out for a real Hurst four speed dual gate.

JohnnyBs68S

Did this swap last summer and used BTO's TV-EZ kit (with modification) to work w/ my 2GC carb.


https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-look-out.html


I'm running a 3.90 rear gear and now w/ the OD + lockup, the RPMs are lower than w/ my Jetaway / 2.78 original gear. Used a Kugel KK02 linkage to work w/ my column shifter, it has an adjustable ratio so you can fine-tune the pointer / shifter detents to the transmission detents. P/R/N/D all line up OK, 3/2/1 land at various points around the "L" on the indicator, so you kinda have to count the clicks to know what gear you are in. Since I rarely use anything but D, not a big issue for me.