roadster-rob

Hi, I have a 52 Olds 303 with Hydramatic tranny in my model T roadster. The shifter is floor mounted, the tranny is an auto. Shift pattern is working rearwards to front - neutral, Drive, Super, Low, Reverse/Park - I think...
I've only just got it on the road - and it drives nice and shifts well, but I don't seem to be getting 4th gear. I notice it shift at between 20mph and 30mph which I think is 2nd to 3rd gear. But I would have thought it would shift by the time I reach 50/55 to 4th gear, but it isn't. Any thoughts?
When I slow down, I notice it shift from 2nd to 1st, just before I come to a stop.
Details are - The number on the engine, and this is on the block on the drivers side a little below and to the rear of the head, is R64097.
The trans plate has 052-35419 on it.
Thanks - Rob.

d2_willys

Do a quick check like this: First, put the trans in SUPER and drive it and count the shifts, should be two shifts, one around 10-20mph, the other 30-55mph, depending on accelerator. Once you get it up to speed shift to DR and listen to the engine to see if it drops in RPM. If it does then one of the other shifts is not happening (and 4th gear is working). If it stays at the same RPM then 4th gear is not working as you mentioned.

Now to the weird stuff Olds was doing back then. My 50 Olds starts in 2nd gear, whether starting in DR or LO (single range, no SUPER GEAR). Perhaps Olds was still doing this in 52. It was mentioned to me that Olds did a mod that would not allow 1st in cars sold in the PLAINLANDS states back then.

Having no 4th could mean 1) valve stuck in valve body, 2) G2 port of governor is not working. 4th gear has both bands off, both clutches on.
2nd gear uses one band and one clutch, where 3rd uses opposite band clutch combination, so what I am saying is that both clutches seem to be operational, along with the bands.

My guess is that you have no 1st gear, and that 4th is working. Try the test out and let us know what your findings are.

roadster-rob

Thanks for the info, I will try that again tonight (I am in the UK).
One thing I have not noticed is a 1st gear shift to second. I always thought this was very smooth to the point it wasn't noticed.
When I hit the throttle the car takes off nicely and smoothly until around 20+miles per hour which is when it shifts from what I thought was 2nd to 3rd gear.
Taking it up to around 50mph I was expecting it to shift into 4th, but nothing there. I didn't notice any change when I did try it in Super.
Lo only took me up to around 20mph so i then shifted to Super which took me up to 50.
I've attached some pics of the linkage drivers side of the tranny as I thought it may be as simple as something to do with this.
Could you let me know how easy or difficult it is to fix any of those 3 problems you mentioned - I'm not a transmission man.
Thanks so far!

88 coupe

Used to be common when using Olds/Hydro in light cars.



Remove the cable, and move the (throttle valve) arm, toward the front of the car, until it meets the resistance of the TV spring. Replace the cable and adjust it (Shorten the cable) so the arm about ⅛" closer to the carb.

Take it for a short ride. If the shift points are still too low, shorten the cable. if they are too high, lengthen it.

Norm

d2_willys

Do what Norm has suggested, it could be as simple as the TV cable being to short and what the transmission will do is "hunt" for the next shift. Ideally you want the TV cable to move the lever the full range of motion from idle to WOT. I would push the lever all the way back (toward back of trans) and with the carb linkage at idle adjust the TV cable length to just fit into lever. Then check the range of motion. (Remember that this is suppose to return the lever to the back position at idle position.

Another check (Oldsmobiles only in general) is to start in LO and listen for the 1-2 shift. BTW: How many shifts did you get in SUPER range? Should have two normally.

Let us know what happens after adjusting the TV cable.

We will go from there if still no 4th gear.

roadster-rob

Thanks fellas, didn't get the chance to take the car out last night, will try to tonight.
I have a 6 carb setup - but shouldn't really make any difference to the suggestions you have given me.
I will let you know how I get on, and thanks again for the advice so far.
Rob.

roadster-rob

(Another check (Oldsmobiles only in general) is to start in LO and listen for the 1-2 shift. BTW: How many shifts did you get in SUPER range? Should have two normally.)


In LO, I didn't notice any shift. In SUPER I got the one shift at around 20-30mph which I would think is 2nd to 3rd
The car did come from North Dakota - was this a PLAINLANDS car? If so it may explain the real absence of a shift from 1st to 2nd?

88 coupe

I am guessing that this is the way it was done originally. If so, it is likely the cause of the problem.

The part about the TV spring is the key to finding the ratio that will work with that combination.

It can make a significant difference in the ratio of carb to throttle valve travel.

It explains nothing.

All Hydra-Matic equipped cars, trucks, and tanks, left their factories with 4 gears.

There was a modification that could have been made by the Dealer, if a buyer did not like the way it shifted. It applied to '49 (possibly to some '50) Eighty-Eights only. By '52 the issue was long forgotten.

Norm

88 coupe

In the interest of clarity.

If the cable/ratio is the problem, it would be that it is not short enough.

Until the lever moves 20 to 30% of its total travel, it does not even contact the valve.

Norm

roadster-rob

Right, just managed to take the car out.

In LO,it definitely shifts into 2nd very smoothly at around 10mph.

In Super, again it definitely shifts as in LO, then shifts into 3rd at around 35mph. If I keep accelarating and then back off, it slips into 4th - but it won't slip into 4th unless I back off. It will hit 4th at around 50mph.

In DRIVE it shifts 1st to 2nd to 3rd as above, but won't hit 4th.

The shift pattern shuld be correct - if so it must be the kick down?
I am going out again soon and start looking at the cable.
The revs do drop right down in 4th, thank god I can get 4th.
I will also get it in 4th in SUPER, then pop it into DRIVE and see if it stays there.
Thoughts?

roadster-rob

Excuse the last post - I can get 4th gear but only if I knock it back from Super at 45-50mph into DRIVE. It won't go into 4th automatically in DRIVE....

88 coupe

1-2 and 3-4 shifts involve the application of the front clutches.

If the TV cable checks out, a pressure test will be next.

Norm

d2_willys

These transmissions behave like this in SUPER :

It normally shifts 1-2 and 2-3 as in Dr. But when you accelerate to the maximum TV PRESSURE AND GOVERNOR (G-2) PRESSURE, a 3-4 shift will occur, and if you deaccelerate, the transmission will shift down to 3rd.

What you are explaining when in SUPER and DR, sounds very much like G-2 PORT on governor is stuck wide open and causing maximum G-2 pressure out of governor, causing the 4th gear shift in SUPER.

But before doing this, get the TV linkage set correctly.

BTW NORM: I have several of these transmissions and have them adjusted just fine doing the idle set method first, then checking the range of motion to insure linkage is pulls past the resistance at max throttle.

One other thing, the clutches are both used in 4th gear. The clutches are used for 2nd and 3rd also, only one at a time in each of those gears.

roadster-rob

Thanks both - I'll be looking at this over the weekend when I have a bit more time and when it stops raining. Being in the city I need to get out in the sticks on some long straight roads wth my toolbox...
I'll let you know how I get on, if it's not the cable adjustment I'll need some more help!
Cheers. Rob.

88 coupe

And I do not.

If I did have "several" of them, would it make my information any more accurate?

Non stock linkage (Cable) used here, notwithstanding, what does that have to do with the full travel (or lack of it) of his TV lever?

Did anyone say any different?

Did anyone say any different?

Norm

d2_willys

Norm: I will stick with the G-2 port being stuck on the governor diagnosis. Don't think u mentioned that one.

88 coupe

No need to.

You mentioned it, in post #2.

Norm

Frank Allen

had a brand new 51 98, the car in drive started out in second gear, had no super, a mecahanic at the time did a small procedure , I don,t recall what it was but he made it start out in 1 st and go through the shift range to 4 th. probably the last year was 51.
lots of knowledge here that is valuable, not many left that know about these transmissions I hed one in a 1950 gm transit bus.


Frank Allen