Hello, Been a while since I was on here.

Im finally getting around to pulling out my 84 toronado again, so to do drives with the family on the weekends. Its either this one or my 66 VIP but that needs more work to get on the road again.

Im looking for suggestions and guidance with the servicing of my 325-4L thats in it.
I called the trans guy I been using for years and he's getting closer to retirement so its hard to get in. He remembers the 325-4L as the local GM dealership used to send them to him to fix.
Said he would go through his old notes, but I got thinking I should start thinking about parts and a manual for the transmission.

Reason Im going in, is the speedo gear inside the transmission is not working. I broke open the cable going from the Transmission through the engine bay, into the cluster to check. Thats when I found I need to open the cluster to loosen that up too.
Also I think the Torque Converter Lockup solenoid is gone.. as when I come off the freeway or a long drive when I come to a stop teh engine will sometimes stall. I remember posting on here years ago, and this was one of the suggestions that made sense. i used to have an 86 Pontiac 6000 that did the same thing with a lockup solenoid.
The car has 24k kms on it, so i cant see the trans being worn out.

For kits and parts.. is there any particular brand you suggest to use? And where to get it from? I can find a few like Standard, Pioneer, PA Cargo on Rock Auto.

For a Trans manual, I can find some Hydromatic Manuals for the era.. or theres a newer one from ATSG for the 325 and 325 4L. I was wondering if that was better as it is newer, and possibly would have more information including rebuild information?

Thanks for any and all suggestions.

 

The "Transmission Manual" is the factory Chassis Service Manual. Chapter seven covers the transmission in detail. Be sure you get the one that says "Toronado" on the front cover. There are several different volumes in 1984 that otherwise look exactly the same.




The converter lockup solenoid is a common failure, and is easily replaced by dropping the pan.

 

I have never been in a 325L4 trans, I do know they are based on the rwd 200R4 trans. Much like the 425 trans shares many parts with the rwd 400. If the trans really only has 24k miles on it, I wouldn’t do anything other than replacing the TCC solenoid and a new filter and fluid.

 

Hi Joe.
thank you!

Glad you mentioned about the chassis manual. I didn’t think the transmission would be in the manual for some reason. You were the one that suggested to me to buy these manuals.

I went through to the sub-section in section 7, for the 325-4L.. been reading and going through it.

I’m trying to get the trans guy to do it all at once. The speedo gear, the filter and fluid, and the solenoid. If he can’t get me in the next few months I’ll do it myself.

thank you.

 

Hi Matt.
I fully agree with you. It does only have 24k km’s/ 15k miles on it. It came from a family friend. It’s been off the road and barely driven for the last 20 years.
I only plan to do the solenoid, oil and filter, and the speedo gear. If I can’t get into the trans guy in the next few months I’m going to do it myself.

i was asking about what kit or parts makers I should look at buying In case I run into problems finding stock easily down the road.. I was planning on ordering two filter kits, two lock up solenoids, and a complete overhaul kit to keep on hand.

thanks for your help and suggestions

 

Well, while waiting to hear back from the tranny guy.. I used the chassis manual for reference material, and opened the speedo gear cover.
Both the driven and driving plastic gears are fine from what I can see.
The one into the trans is a green one, and with the car in park I couldn’t turn it so to me that side is fine. The one that comes out is black and I couldn’t see any damage to that one.
I hooked the lower cable and the longer upper cable together and using a drill spun the cable. The speedometer in the dash started working.. but it was really wavy. It did that before until it stopped working completely.






I looked on a few sites and called the local parts store to see if I could get the lower and upper cables. The lower I couldn’t find anywhere, but I can get an upper cable.

Anybody have any suggestions for where to get a lower cable? Why is there a 2 part upper and lower cable? Why not a one piece? was there an option offered on this car?

tomorrow I’m going to remove the remove the cluster to get at the speedo to see if I can lubricate it or see if I can see anything where it connects into the cluster.
Is there any tricks for this anyone can suggest? I’m looking through the site too.

Thanks.

 

Trans parts:
The trans parts industry is an interesting one. For the DIY-er you have to just scramble around and see what you can find where. Start with a general "325-4l parts" search and you'll start finding vendors. There's not a one-stop-shop for old transmissions like this that I can find. Brand names don't matter a whole lot - except for frictions, bands and steels. Seems like all the other parts are generic and rebagged as anyone sees fit.

Manuals:
ATSG is the service industry body for trans techs. They put out service manuals that can be thought of as the cliff's notes versions of the manufacturer's. They'll usually have updated guidance based on what techs have seen in their shops, they'll highlight faster/simpler procedures, etc. Good to have both the OEM and the ATSG book in my opinion.

Speedo:
Yeah, the cables do dry up and wear out. Once it gets difficult to turn then then it'll stop working. I've tried lubricating with powdered and/or spray graphite before. Sometimes that will help for a while, sometimes won't. The upper is probably a more common part shared across platforms, and the lower is an extension to make it work with the toro....
The other thing to check is the inside of the shank of the driven speed gear - the part that engages with the speedo cable. It's usually just plastic, and it's a very loose square drive. The cable gets tough to turn, plastic gets old and dry, and it quickly gets worn out and won't turn the cable anymore. It looks like those gears might be unique to the 325, so might be hard to find. Just take out the driven gear, put the end of the speedo cable in it, and make sure there's a good solid engagement while turning.

Speedo cable:
Don't know about the 80's, but I expect its the same as the earlier cars. The 70's cars used a spring retainer. Get your hand up behind the gauge, push the spring retainer towards the gauge, then pull the cable housing. It's easy after your 30th try.

 

Hello Oddball
Thank you for the help. I was browsing the ATSG site, and wondered teh same thing. However like Joe said, I have a section in my chassis manual. Which at this point will do me, but Ive made notes on the ATSG.

I have emails out to various trans places asking about the gears for the transmission. From what I have seen online, like you said my gears are different to all others. Some sites list the driven gear from the 200R4 with the holder as also 3254L. If i find a place that has some in stock, Im likely going to buy a set just to have on hand, as these seem to be hard to find.
However I managed to "encourage" mine out of the little housing cover as it was seized in, and it has a metal shaft that the gear locks onto, while the 200R4 looks from the pictures to be all plastic, including where the cable feeds into. I put the whole thing in my ultrasonic cleaner for a while and it came out pretty good.

I will admit. I went to stick the unit back together onto the trans and when I was putting the spring clip on, it sprung and flew in between the radiator and the AC cooler. After I figured out where it went, I removed the top cover on the radiator that holds it in place. The threaded bolt clips that held that cover on were not locked into place.. and they also dropped down in between the radiator and AC cooler. Im currently waiting on an amazon order of a 30" extended magnet. My son seems to have played with and broken the one I had.

Im working on removing the Console now. It took me about 20 minutes to remove the headlight ****. I couldnt remember how to do it.. I finally broke down and googled it.. then remembered it has a metal tab that springs out on the light switch shaft. Small Screwdriver to push it in to release.

I ordered a bunch of items from Rockauto at the same time I ordered a new AC Delco Upper Speedo cable. How stiff is the cable supposed to be? The original ones in there are white sheathed, and are really loose, when I compare it to the the new one from AC Delco. I found a writeup on here, and I flushed/ blew the lower cable out and put a dab of grease in the ends, its as stiff as the new AC Delco cable now.

They have a number of AC Delco items discontinuing on rockauto it seems so I ordered Fuel, air, and Oil Filters by the case.

 

Ok so I called about 17 places, and sent emails with pictures. Mine are still ok but I kinda wanted to know about spares.

nobody makes or stocks speedo gears for these 325-4L from what I can gather.

The Driving Gear is not similar to anything else according to many I talked to.
I was told to start trolling eBay. One guy told me if he sees good 325-4L speedo gears(as well as other obscure gears) he buys them.

The Driven Gear I can make work if I buy the “speedo bullet” for a 200R4, which will allow me to use the all plastic Driven gear.

 

Here are the part numbers for the drive gear and driven gear, by tire size and final drive ratio. Search these P/Ns in ebay and Google. Frequently parts show up. The TH125 and 440-T4 transverse FWD transmissions use the same speedo drive gears.

 

Thanks Joe!

searching now. I was trying to find those numbers.

surprised all these places I called didn’t know the drive gears are the same as those you mentioned.

 

Just to add in case someone searches in the future.

I got an email back from one of the places I emailed. He found a source for new driven gears 27 tooth, and used drive gears 10 tooth.
I ordered a set for spares for myself.

Heres the link if anyone is looking.
https://www.charlietranny.com/325-4L...for%20Sale.htm