Tomorrow I am going to look at two low mileage Toronados, one black and one white with low mileage all original with sunroof, the white one has under 50,000 miles not sure about the black one. The sleeper his is the 73 tan one with black interior, Speedo says just under 25,000 which after looking at it I am inclined to believe it and i usually don't believe anything.

I went there to buy a 78 Eldorado Biarritz triple white with Western mag wheels which is now in my garage. I was joking and said to the old farmer I wish you had one of those old Toronados with the big back windows. To my surprise he said you mean the XS, I have a few of those and to my amazement he did along with a brown 75 Sedan Deville, 78 Lincoln Mark 5 and Thunderbird, not sure what year it was. The father who passed was quite the business man and created generational wealth that passed to his kids along with these cars, a few model T's, several convertibles and a lone 72 green Chevy Impala 4 door. When I say generational wealth, I mean miles and miles of farmland.

I plan on bringing home the 72 Impala and hopefully one of the Toronados. The new owner the son said his dad was pretty good about changing out the oil and anti freeze until he passed in 2020. When I changed out the oil and anti freeze in the 78 Eldorado I got from him, it rang true.

My question is not knowing much about the Toros, which would be more collectable? Both for different reasons of course.

Thanks,

Dennis

 

The XS would have more collector interest but I'd lean to the 72, for the trimmer styling and the 455.

 

Yes, performance = '72 with 455, but for sheer funkiness, the '78 XS with the wrap-around rear window can't be beat. Just ask the man who owns two -- @Jaunty75.

 

rocketraider and 69442ragtop, I agree with you both, I had not seen the XS in person for over 45 years to see more than two in a barn was quite the treat and the opportunity to possible own one in great shape. .Given the chance i would pick the Black XS over the white one and it's a toss up between XS and the 72.

 

Actually, I have two XS's, but only one is a '78.

 

jaunty75 who does that, has not one but two of these beauties. I thought they were extinct until recently. If you could pick one black or white which would you get? These babies have been sitting in the barn for many years. Is there a away to tell which is the better buy besides mileage and condition, they both are about same condition, The white has brown interior and black has red interior with 49238 miles. Anything I should look out for? I gotta admit that 72 looks good too. He shoulda made it easy on me and had some 442's or even Cutlas's in there.

 

I'm still confused about exactly what you have to choose from as far as the Toronados go. Black or white what? Black '78? White '78? Both are XS, or only one? Also a '72?

Perhaps a little background is in order here.

The '71 to '78 Toronados are the "second generation" Toros. They're far less collectible than the first generation, which were the '66 to '70 models. The third generation was '79 to '85, and the fourth and last generation was '86 to '92.

The Toro was originally sort of a "personal luxury coupe" with, of course, the unique front-drive system. It's the front-drive at a time when no other mainstream manufacturer was offering it, plus the unusual, hidden-headlight styling, which Olds had never used before, that generated interest. Olds took the Toronado in completely different direction with the second generation, turning it into what was essentially a living room on wheels a la the Olds 98. The front-drive system was still unique, made for plenty of legroom in the car, and was a great selling point. But any real relationship between the first and second-gen Toros is pretty much limited to the engine and drivetrain. Body styling, etc. was completely redone.

I like to think of the '77 and '78 Toronado as almost their own generation, call it generation II-B. I don't know how old you are and thus whether or not you might remember this, but one of the biggest events in GM history was the "great downsizing" of the their mainstream B and C-body cars (Delta 88 and 98, in the case of Olds) for the 1977 model year. After relentless increases in size and weight over the decades, GM, most likely due to the ongoing energy shortages at the time and government pressure to increase fuel mileage, made their cars smaller. But they did this in stages, with the B and C bodies for 1977, the A-bodies for 1978, and the E-bodies (Toronado and Eldorado--and maybe the Riviera, too?) for 1979. So, for two model years, 1977 and 1978, the Toronado soldiered on as the largest car Oldsmobile offered.

Another distinction between the '77/'78 and the '71 to '76 models is the engine. The last year for the 455 was 1976, and the '77 and '78 Toros got the new 403.

Third, to my mind, is the offering of the XS option, which included the famous wrap-around rear window featuring "bent glass" technology (also used on some '77 through '79 Chevrolet Impala and Caprice coupes). It was just an option package, yet references such as "Setting the Pace" by Olds historians Helen Earley and James Walkinshaw, treat the XS as a separate Toronado model in the production numbers in their book. The XS was only about 10% of total Toronado production both model years, but they do seem to have been kept in greater numbers than the conventional Brougham models because it seems that about half the '77 and '78 Toros that pop up for sale nowadays are XS's. If these cars had been kept in proportion to their original production, you'd expect about 1 in 10 '77 and '78 Toros for sale today to be XS models.

One lesser know piece of history regrading the XS is that it was a last-minute replacement for what Olds had originally planned to offer for 1977, a Toronado model called the XSR. It was to have featured a powered T-top where the two halves of the roof would slide toward the center.

Here's a picture of it that appeared in the 1977 Olds big-car brochure. Olds came so close to producing it that all of their early '77-model-year sales literature featured the model. But, at the last minute, production was nixed, and the reason most often heard is that they could not get the T-top mechanism, which was motorized, not manual, to work reliably enough. So they quickly substituted a motorized "astro-roof" in place of the T-top and called it the XS.





Depending on the source, Olds produced one, two, or maybe as many as three prototype XSRs. What became of those cars is a source of mystery from time to time. At least one was found in a field somewhere and restored. A second one has also been found.

"Front Wheel Driver," the bi-monthly magazine of the Toronado Owners Association, has featured the XSR and the last of the second-gen Toros from time to time.

They call it "The Last Big Lansing Toronado" because, from its beginning in 1966 through the 1978 model year, the Toro was built only at the Lansing plant. After that, production occurred at other plants as well.






Here's a closer-up view of the T-top.









One last little tidbit about my '78 is the car's VIN, specifically the last six digits, which are always the production sequence number at the assembly plant involved and which usually nobody is interested in.





Through at least 1978, production sequence numbers for Toronados always began with 700001 (not 100001 or just 000001). The last six digits on my car's VIN are 700005, suggesting that it was the fifth Toro built that year. The build date on the cowl tag of late August 1977 supports this. I wrote to the GM Heritage Center, from which I obtained the dealer invoice shown below, to ask about the prior four cars with VINs ending in 00001 through 00004 as I especially wanted to know if any of those cars had the XS option. They told me that Toros with the VINs in ending in 700003 and 700004 also had the XS package and that they did not have invoices for the Toros with the first two VINs. They didn't have an explanation as to why not. So all I can assume, if I can even assume this at all, is that my '78 was, as I said, the fifth '78 Toro built and perhaps the third '78 Toro XS built that year.


Note that the XS option was almost $3000 on car with a base price of just under $9000. Not cheap.








Now, to answer your original question---which one to buy? Obviously I am biased. I would take the XS over anything else. It is an interesting, very unusual car that always causes head-scratching at the local car shows because no one has ever heard of it, let alone seen one.

But condition matters, too. You're always better off, money-wise, buying the best-condition car you can find. But don't assume that this is any kind of investment. I have spent WAY more on my '78 than I will ever get back if I ever sell it. But I didn't buy it as an investment. I bought it for the fun and enjoyment of owning it.

 

Here's an image from the 1979 Chevy sales brochure showing the bent-glass rear window on a Caprice coupe. It wasn't quite as dramatic in appearance as on the Toronado, where it practically screams "look at me!"

 

jaunty75, I just saw this message. Yes both are 78's with sunroofs and a little surface rust at the bottom of hind quarters. He decided not to let the 72 go yet and I didn't get either of the 78's, instead I opted for the 94 Deville which was the cleanest of them all.

 

Photos of any of these beasts?

 

jaunty75, yes I remember the downsizing of the Olds, at the time I had the Eldorado which of course got the downsizing. Who knows, maybe down the road if they are still available I might pick up one but gotta get my health in check first, the wife isn't too excited about me getting more cars especially since I have a Fleetwood and another Biarritz on my radar, LOL.

The great thing is since I have bought two cars and probably a 3rd next Sunday, they have become friends.

 

Here are a couple of pics

 

Thanks for the photos. That white '78 would be helped greatly a hose and water.

 

And the removal of that huge bug deflector.

 

Yes they are dirty and i will take them all day long, all are original and complete. Sad they are just sitting there but I am glad they are not advertised.

 

That black '78 XS looks good, too. Are those cars for sale?

 

Yes they look pretty good, will need work, most of them been sitting a long time, some as far back as 86. According to the son the dad would change the oil every year even though he didn't drive them. I took the valve cover off the 78 Eldorado I got from him when I had the carb rebuilt and this is what it looked like. Hopefully it's ok to post this on here, some forums get touchy but it's only a motor not the car. The black is my favorite as well. Since his son wants the 72 I have been talking to my brother about getting one.