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I'd like to get a new pulley for my '78 Toronado with the 403. The old one is serviceable but is rusted and pitted in spots, especially in the V-groove. There are also scrapes and scratches in the bore.
Of course, I haven't been able to find an exact replacement (two-groove, 3/4" bore, 6.625" diameter), but I found one that's very close. It has the same bore, but it is 1/2-inch smaller in diameter (6.13"). According to my back-of-the-envelope calculations, this would make the pulley spin about 8% faster than the regular pulley. Would this harm anything? Any other reason why this wouldn't work? I can get it at Amazon for $25 with free shipping. Thank you.
I've thought of some of these. I think there's enough adjustment in both the steering pump and alternator brackets to allow for the necessary adjustment. Currently, both the alternator and pump are right in the middle of their adjustment range (which is what I would expect if the correct pulleys and belts are used). If there isn't enough adjustment, I presume I can buy next-size smaller belts.
As far as the offset, I'll put them side-by-side when the new one arrives and see.
I've thought of a clean-up of the old pulley as most of the "problem" is cosmetic. But bead-blasting wouldn't help the scoring and scratches inside the bore.
Here's a photo of the pump with one of the belts still on it and with the alternator removed. The replacement pulley is 1/2 inch smaller in diameter, which means it's 1/4-inch smaller in radius. So the pump would, at most, have to be moved 1/4" farther out on it's adjustment travel for the same size belt. It would be the same, I would expect, for the alternator--at most a quarter-inch of movement. You can see the alternator adjustment groove at the bottom right in the photo. It is 3-inches long, so there would be about 1.5-inches of adjustment available in either direction from the center of it. Seems like it should easily be able to accommodate a quarter-inch of adjustment.
Of course, I'm no geometrician, and I'm fully prepared for this not to work. The pulley is only $25, and it is returnable.
Last edited by jaunty75; March 17th, 2020 at 12:36 PM.
Can you check? I'd rather have the correct pulley if it's in decent shape. As I said, I can always return the new one and get my money back. I'm not scheduled to receive the new one until next Tuesday (week from today), so I've got plenty of time to continue to check other possibilities. Thanks.
I noticed that mine has a slight bend in it at one of the openings. I just noticed this when I was looking for the KH stamp. I have no idea how it got bent. Perhaps someone tried to remove the pulley by sticking a crowbar under there and prying. It doesn't look like it would affect operation.
jaunty, if Nick's KA turns out to be different in some way, I have a KH on a pump in my 1978 Toronado parts car. John
John, I didn't think to ask you because I thought you didn't have the car any more. Yes, can you get it off and clean it up for a good look? From what you've already cleaned to expose the KH, yours already looks like its more dusty and dirty than it is rusted or pitted. I'd rather have the exact replacement if available. Thanks.
If you are going to change or clean the pulley, I would hope that you remove the pump and bracket and make them prettier.
Ah, good eye! Actually, that photo above is not current. I have a new pump to install, and I didn't want to use the old pulley if I could get something better. I just took that photo to have a record of what things look like when I go to put things back together. I'll post a photo when it's all back together, but you won't actually end up seeing much of the pump as it gets hidden behind alternators, brackets, and fan belts. I'll take some photos before everything is all back together.
Intermediate update here. I'm still working out the purchase of the pulley from John's '78 parts car. In the meantime, the pulley I ordered from Amazon has arrived. I'll hang onto it for now as I have until April 19 to return it for a refund, and I want to get everything squared away with John's pulley before doing so.
The instructions that came with the new pulley had this interesting little item. Apparently the idea of using a different-diameter pulley is common-enough that they addressed it in the instructions. In my case, the "application" would require a slightly shorter belt.
Jaunty,
I've been chuckling for a couple of days now. "I'm no geometrician". I swear that is somehow going to wind up on my resume or LinkedIn profile. "Part-time Amateur Geometrician".
There are several of us that owe John a debt of gratitude for pulling that '78 Toronado home, and having the patience and will to sell parts from it. I know I have several pieces of it here with me.
Good luck with the power steering pump replacement and bleeding.
Another quick update. John has shipped his pulley (still attached to the power steering pump, so I'll be pulling it off of that one and putting it on mine), and I should have it day after tomorrow (the 26th) according to Fedex.
I received John's power steering pump, pulley, and brackets yesterday. I got the pulley off after a bit of wailing and gnashing of teeth. It is now on the car and everything is good.
Here's the backstory. I had actually replaced the power steering pump last September because the one that was there, which I assume was original, but was in any event pretty old-looking, was leaking. The job was straightforward. Got the old pump and brackets off, removed the pulley, mounted the new pump, attached the pulley, got everything back in the car, new belts, and we're good to go
Fast-forward to about a week-and-a-half ago. Between last September and now, I've put about 500 miles on the car. I was out for a drive, stopped at a store to run a quick errand, come back out, try to start the car, and I hear KA-CHUNK, KA-CHUNK, KA-CHUNK, CLANG, CLANG, CLANG in that order. I thought, "what the hell is going on now." I get out, lift the hood, and both the power steering and power steering/alternator belts were broken and wrapped around everything. The power steering pump pulley had been pulled off the shaft and was laying on the ground under the car. That was the CLANG CLANG CLANG.
I assume what happened is that a belt broke, got tangled in the fan and the pump pulley, and the force of the engine pulled the pulley right off. That's no trivial thing, and I'm surprised the belt didn't just break instead of holding up long enough to pull off the pulley.
Anyway, I untangled the belts and retrieved the pulley from under the car. Fortunately, I was only about a mile from home. I started the car with no belts around the alternator and, obviously, none around the power steering pump. The GEN light was screaming at me, but the car did run, and I could steer it if I kept the car moving slowly and turned the wheel gently. I did get home.
Then I started looking into replacement pulleys for the reason I gave at the top of this thread, which was that the old pulley was scored in several places in the bore.
So one thing I had been wondering since the beginning was, how easy is it, if it's doable at all, to install a pump pulley while the pump is on the car rather than on my workbench. It turns out there is plenty of room to attach the pulley push-on tool, attach two wrenches, and turn one of them until the pulley is fully on. I put two new belts on, started it up, and everything was fine. I took the car for a drive around a few blocks with no problem. I'm still scratching my head about how ANYTHING could have pulled that old pulley off the shaft. Those things are on there so tight that you practically need dynamite to get them off.
Below I've posted some scintillating photos of power steering pump pulleys.
The first two are side-by-sides of the pulley from John's car on the left and the original one from my car on the right.
Here's the new pulley mounted on the pump shaft before I reattached the belts. Didn't I say these photos would be scintillating?
Here's a brief video (18 seconds) of the pulley in action with the belts attached. Thank you to John (2blu442) and Nick (nicks1966) for your help!
I'm glad it all worked out and your back on the road again! So it was easier for me to ship you the whole schebang! I'm glad you were able to get the pulley off without damaging it.
March 17th, 2020, 07:30 AM
