I'm surprised at how few things I am finding on the vacuum tanks and testing them and various valves for leaks, etc. I have nothing vacuum-powered that works, so I am starting at the main metal tank by the driver side headlight. Attaching a hand vacuum to the single nipple on front results in nothing at all. This leads me to believe that this tank is bad, however these tanks can go bad. Rust holes? Split seam? Attaching the vacuum pump to the hose that goes to the actuator results in nothing, so I assume the actuator is either bad or the hose on the bottom is loose. I hear no hissing when I squeeze the hand pump. The lights won't stay up when pulled manually, so I assume the vacuum locks are bad, though I can't test them at this point. Advice here is appreciated.

Is there a more step by step procedure to validate the whole vacuum system? In the Chassis Manual, there is very little in the troubleshooting department - it focuses on hoses, not the tanks or actuators. Everything moves smoothly as far as I can test by hand, but nothing operates. The heater controls do nothing (standard AC, not Comfortron). The trunk does not open, but there is a distinct and prolonged hiss when the release button is pushed. A hose connected to the trunk release directly shows it is non functional. Any input or favorite methods are welcome! It's all brand new to me - I just figured out how to remove the front vacuum tank but haven't figured out the actuators yet - do the cornering lights have to be removed first?

And yes - I bought a Body Manual... but the idjit seller shipped it to Iowa instead of Ohio, and so I didn't get it yet... Thanks, everyone for your input

 

With so many things not seeming to respond to your manual vacuum pump, have you tested that pump for proper operation - just asking.

 

For one thing, 55 year old rubber tubing likely has hardened and then possibly split at connection points, so that is a possible culprit - use a short length of new tubing to connect directly to different components to test.

If the headlight cannisters are poisitioned similar to 1966, the cornering lights shouldn't be a problem, but the battery and large vacuum tank would need to be removed for access.

 

Yes - brand new hand pump / brake bleeder. Holds vacuum against my finger easily without leaking.

Most of the easy to reach tubing I have removed and cut off the hardened ends and reattached. I know there are more to go. I hooked the hose pulled from the main vacuum tank to the pump and could pull some vacuum which quickly bled off. I haven't gotten to the plastic tanks up by the firewall yet. Actuator canisters are the same as '66, that I can tell. Looks like two nuts underneath the front fender to release them - like you say, one behind the battery and one behind the main vacuum tank.

 

You’re quite right that there’s not much written on the vacuum systems. However, the key supplier to the big 3 was a company called Trico which also made wiper blades. You may find some servicing data looking under that name. They made power trunk locks, power door locks and may have made the Toro system too, I don’t know.

Get or make diagrams
Whatever system you’re working on, get a diagram of it showing you what hoses connected to what numbered vacuum ports. Or more importantly, what _color_ striped hose connects to what numbered port. You might also want to use a labeler or blue tape and sharpie to label individual lines as you fix ‘em up so you know what you’ve worked on before and what you did.

Supplies
To prepare for repairs, you might want to invest in 20’ or so of vacuum line that you’ll need a bunch of lengths of. That way, in a pinch, you can make and label your own replacement lines and know you’ve done it right. Olds used a bunch of sizes, so take a few examples to a good auto parts store nearby and get the supplies you need. You will also want to get assorted size Union connectors (<—>), T connectors (<-^->) and adaptors with different size nipples to allow you to plug and play as needed. Sorry about the bad ASCII art. It sounds like you may already have the very useful hand vacuum pump.

Submerge parts & use compressed air to find tank or actuator leaks
If you’re trying to trouble shoot the giant square tank, one easy way to do it would be to have a local radiator shop submerge it underwater and shoot compressed air into it, then find where the bubbles are coming from - that would be the leak - or leaks. Then it wouldn’t be a stretch to solder them up, or maybe weld if needed. Not everyone has a compressor and sink they can use as a test tank, but if you do, so much the better to do at home.

Hose to metal nipple leaks
One common source for leaks I’ve found in various of these tanks was the circular insert where the hose connections live. It seems the air-sealing rubber gives up over the years. If that’s your problem, you might try resealing that with simple clear or black silicone sealant. Or 3M “dum-dum” or that black goo that comes in strips.

The rubber vacuum hoses can develop leaks over the years, but across 2 cars I’ve generally found the factory hoses very, very well built. My ‘66 Starfire will hold vacuum for 24 hours. I consider that luck, but it can happen. Usually where the leaks develop are right where the hoses connect to the metal nipples they slide over. The rubber eventually cracks from the stress of being stretched for 50 years. No surprise.

The good news is that usually you can snip off 1/3-1/2” of hose and refresh the seal. Olds usually left those hoses long enough to allow them to be shortened once or twice, or maybe more. However, sometimes all this trick does is continue the original crack up the line. So to avoid that, shoot the metal nipple and inside of the rubber line with silicone spray to allow them to slip together easily.

I don’t know much about the vacuum operated Toro headlights other than learning recently that someone is making 2 way electric motors for them. Perhaps that helps you. If you’re looking for parts for the other systems - door locks, trunk locks, maybe even heater/AC vacuum hoses, check across Olds and Cadillac products in the classic car junkyards. Caddies had a lot more of these goodies than Olds sold, so they’re slightly more available in dead Caddies. Behind the trim, the systems pretty much worked the same, but don’t expect to use a Caddy A/C controller in your Olds. The trim was different to differentiate the brands.

Chris

 

My 66' vacuum tank looked great while installed. It was the original tank, however. Like yours, I couldn't get the tank to hold any vacuum at all. When I unbolted it and removed it from the car I found the whole bottom had rotted out. It was never gonna hold vacuum in that condition. I guess moisture collects in the bottom of those things and rots them out. I replaced mine with one from a donor car and "voila"......my headlights popped up again.

I'd actually like to get mine repaired to have as a spare but that actually seems like a more difficult repair than it looks. One of these days, I'll get a shop to look at it.

 

Great, great, great advice, thank you all. And I'll know about my main tank shortly, as I'm going to pull it out and see what's going on. So many projects, so little time.... I'm trying to kill the little ones before moving onto the motor gasketing issues I have. I have to keep reminding myself it doesn't have to be completed in a day. Or a week.

I think a trip to the parts store tomorrow for some 1/4" hose, 1/8" hose, and a box of connectors is in order. And a quick replacement of the lines under the hood shouldn't be too big of a deal - just to make sure those that I can get to are in good order.

 

That trunk hiss is very likely a leaky or disconnected vacuum line just behind your glove box. That should be a quick fix. Usually this is just plug the line back in. Unless the switch itself is leaking, which can happen, but usually they hold up just fine.

In place of a dead tank, you could probably make something custom that would work just as well for a whole lot less money. Some of the smaller vacuum reservoirs were literally metal cans like you'd get beans or canned veggies in - the only difference being you didn't use a can opener at the seam, you just connected the vacuum lines and off you go.

If I were trying to gin something up at home, I'd start with a 1 gallon can of ketchup or mustard from Costco, drill it in 1 or 2 places, clean out the original contents, then solder in some fittings, then paint it satin black. Hide that under a fender and no one will ever know it ain't original. Really almost any sealed container would do - probably even something plastic that's your preferred shape/size.

In my Starfire I have one that is essentially an elongated canned vegetable can with the vacuum fittings on top and crimped brackets to bolt it to the car. I think I pulled it from a Caddy decades ago and it works great. I have the 2 factory reservoirs too, since it's an A/C car and it work great.

If you have extra room somewhere on an inner fender, consider plumbing in an extra vacuum tank, once you get the rest of the system sound, it will allow you to use these accessories when the engine is off. At least for a little while.

Cheers

 

When you tear into the lines under the hood, take a picture or 5 on your phone so you don't have to remember what went where. Or so we can look at 'em and help you decide what to hook up where.

If you have the tools and inclination, you can also custom bend vacuum hard lines from the tubing you can get at the part store. Nice little custom touch which will probably wear out after we're all long gone.

On my convertible I bent up lines for my distributor and PCV. Fun project. Great way to learn how to use a tubing bender:

Custom vacuum hard lines just for fun.


Chris

 

That's pretty sweet! I just found a set of multicolored paint pens so I can color code the new hoses - I have some disassembly to get to. I need to focus on one thing at a time - super hard for me

 

I am stealing this idea!! Besides being cool, the rubber hoses seem more expensive than the metal lines lately. I can use rubber hose stubs to connect at the ends.

 

So, good news so far... The tank is in good shape and holds vacuum. Attaching the individual front hoses to the vacuum pump raises both headlights individually. They are very pliable and I snipped the ends for best connection for now. I removed the tank and I'm taking care of the surface rust for future protection and preservation. Now I think my focus will be the vacuum block on the fender, then keep working my way back. This could be a problem all the way at the headlight switch.

 

I bet the vacuum block/relay is the culprit, and they are scarcer than hens' teeth to find.

 

The what?? Are you talking about the headlight switch vacuum side?

 

***EDIT*** 8 pm. Started the car and pulled the various vacuum hoses to check. From the manifold to the first valve I measured right at 15 in vacuum. From the tank feed hose I measured 17. From the small check valve I measured 20. The hoses coming from the headlight switch have vacuum (red, green, yellow). It has to be the function of the vacuum block that is the issue - how is it supposed to work? Does it have internal parts that are supposed to move? Can it be cleaned or serviced somehow? Again, when I checked it by itself, each nipple has some sort of resistance, either to blowing or sucking. In any case, I think the problem has been located.


Ok - I pulled the vacuum block on the fender and each nipple has a distinct force when blowing or sucking, so it appears to have function - but I’m not sure if something is supposed to move or if it’s an internal switching of some kind…? When I disengage the blue stripe hose and connect it to the hand pump, both the lights work fine. Connecting the blue hose back to the block results in nothing. Would it be the block or the valve just before it? How could I test either of them definitively? Then again, I haven’t gotten to the headlight switch connections yet, and each of these small hoses plays a role there. How much vacuum should I be pulling from the blue line at the vacuum tank?

 

I was trying to indicate the multi-ported device actually pictured in the post after yours - the device with blue, red, and yellow hoses attached - sorry for the confusion.

 

I too am not familiar with that part. Could my 66 not have one of those?

 

Ahh, I see.......that contraption isn't on the 66'. Must be something they started using on the 67'

 

We're on the same page. I just edited my above post where I checked vacuum at all the ports and it seems the issue is this distribution block or valve. Is there something inside that moves or shifts to change where the vacuum is directed? I don't understand this part - but I believe it is the center of the problem.

 

I think that's a "relay" as you suggested. Activated by the diaphragm to route vacuum to one of two places...

But my gut tells me the vacuum source should go to the middle position. Are those hoses definitely in the correct positions? I don't have the 67 book in front of me.

 

According to the manual, it’s in the right location

 

Must be that they wanted the air (and lights) to move faster or something. I also see they moved the locks for the 67 lights. Makes a lot more sense the 67 way.

 

I'm trying to make some sense from what I'm reading/seeing.
I'm guessing the 'relay's domed end has a diaphragm that's pulled by vacuum from the yellow hose, and that pulls a slide with holes inside the long box of the relay which internally changes connections to different tubings. Does the yellow line possibly go to the headlight switch at the dash?
I know the headlight cannisters for '67 are different from '66 - do the '67 cannisters possibly have ports both below and above the internal diaphragm? If so, maybe the relay is used to change which side of the diaphragm has vacuum applied - one side opens, the other side closes the headlights. We know the blue line opens the headlights, and maybe the (larger) red hose pulls them closed, compared to.the cannister springs that do this in 1966 cannisters).
If like 1966, 1967 also has locks to secure headlights open in event of system failure, maybe the smaller red line goes to the locks to pull them off during normal closure of the headlights.
Enough guessing for now - good luck

 

I think you have it correct. My current question involves your supposition that there is a slide of some kind inside the valve that routes the vacuum sources different ways, much like a valves on a trumpet. So if I'm getting vacuum to all ports, and testing each port shows that it technically SHOULD work, then is there a way to unstick this assumed slide or distribution block internally? The back side of this seems to have a removable cover, much like the covers on an electric relay. Pry back a bent tab and pull it open. I'm guessing that's not recommended. But would a soak overnight in evaporust or dishwashing soap free things up? Someone has to have had this issue before.

 

I'd try WD-40 or something similar

 

Ok, the multiport controller is serviceable to a degree. A knife blade slid under the end of the back panel will let you remove it, exposing the slide piece. Mine was full of dirt. Blew it out and cleaned it like new. Added some Boeshield because I had it. Tested every vacuum port again, and the internal slide worked perfectly. Hooked it back up - nothing. Switched the small yellow and red hoses and the lights came up permanently. As soon as the yellow vacuum touched the original port, the lights went back down. Now I’m really stumped. Maybe the red hose port is clogged in some way? I’ll try again tomorrow. I guess the question is why does the small yellow hose always have vacuum? Shouldn't the vacuum alternate between the yellow and red hoses to raise and lower the lights? Now maybe I'm on the way to saying the headlight switch is bad somehow...

 

With everything hooked up correctly at the headlight switch, the only answer must be the switch itself. I cannot find anything on the switch function, but I assume it must have a sliding assembly, like the distribution block under the hood, to move the vacuum from one line to the next. Under the hood I get vacuum to the yellow hose that is enough to raise the lights when moved to the red hose attaching point, but the red hose doesn't get enough vacuum and the yellow hose never stops having full vacuum - so the lights won't raise. The headlight switch is touchy - it takes very little to turn on the parking lights, but otherwise it feels solid. What is it that switches vacuum from one port to the next? I'm trying to find a tool to take the switch out.

 

Can you post more of the colored drawing that you posted yesterday - a more complete drawing could be helpful in understanding your '67 system.
Earlier you said vacuum on the blue hose raised both lights, now you're saying the yellow hose raises both lights ?????
Obviously something is amiss here, and yes the actual switch could be bad, but more info is needed, the whole drawing please.

 

This is the diagram from the ASM. Here's what happens: removing the blue hose from the valve assembly and applying vacuum raises both lights. This tells me the hoses to the actuators and the actuators themselves are good. Connections are tight. I have also tested the tank and it holds vacuum fine. The yellow and red hoses are the feeds from the light switch. When the car is running, the yellow hose has good vacuum. Red does not. When the headlight switch is pulled, I believe that the vacuum should switch to the red hose from the yellow and raise the lights. My experiment yesterday involved switching the yellow hose to the red hose location, and the lights went up. If I switch the red and yellow hoses permanently, then the lights are up as soon as the car is running and will not go down.

So my contention right now is that there is a something in the headlight switch that physically changes the direction of the vacuum from yellow to the red hose when the switch is pulled, and that is what I need to repair, however that is accomplished.

 

Oh, the drawing helps so much. This is how the system works as I see it, and I'm not totally certain that I'm 100% correct.
First, at the switch, the green hose is vacuum supply with the (small) yellow and red hoses determining which position the 'relay' is in - headlight doors open or closed. Those small red/yellow hoses appear to pull a diaphragm inside the domed end of the relay to move the slide, to one of two positions. The vacuum originates at the intake manifold, and is 'stored' in the large vacuum reservoir, with the check valve in between to isolate stored vacuum. That vacuum is available to both the headlight switch as well as the relay (black hose) with vacuum of the small yellow/red hoses controlling vacuum to the headlight cannisters to open them (blue hose), or to the headlight lock assemblies to pull them open for the headlights to close.
I am wrong on my earlier suggestion that the headlight cannisters might have 2 hoses each, one to pull open the headlights, and the other to push them closed. Instead, although the cannisters are different from 1966, it appears they also use an internal spring to push the headlight doors closed, or maybe they just use the weight of the doors to close themselves.
That's possibly as much as I can figure out from the drawing. I can't figure out which of the switch's red/yellow hoses turn the headlight on, and which turns them off. There will always be vacuum on the green supply hose, but not always on the other two, counter to what you are seeing. At the relay, there will always be vacuum at the (first) black hose, and then also on the blue hose when the headlights are turned on. When you turn the headlights off, I'm not certain of this, but instead of 'active' vacuum from the reservoir pulling open the locks, I think it might be the 'passive' residual vacuum in the headlight cannisters that pulls the locks open.
BTW, is there any text with the schematic drawing that describes headlight function - that would be helpful to see as well.
All for now - I've got a brain cramp.

 

I’m no expert on the Toro slide switch or light switch, but see if you can disassemble them to seal or shim them back to correct function.

If in doubt, don’t break them in disassembly. Just stop and consider alternatives.

One thought I had is that it shoudl be possible to rig up a manual switch to replace the light switch vacuum function with a simple ball valve or similar.

You might also dig around under the brand name Trico who manufactured lots of vacuum doodads in the 60’s. There’s a chance that the vacuum parts of the Toro light switch or slider mechanism were used for other cars in other way across GM, Ford or Chrysler.

Chris

 

This is a 66' switch disassembled. I'm not sure if there's any similarities between it and the 67' switch but it appears to be pretty simple in it's design. The 67' had three vacuum connections as well so I'd bet its operation is very similar. This isn't my switch, I swiped the picture from someone else's thread here a while back (I save all the interesting bits for later, just in case).

 

THANK YOU! I see that there is a slight design difference between 66 and 67, but you confirmed that yes, there is a sliding diverter that in my case is likely not working for some reason. I'm going to try and get my switch removed today and see what I find. This is the best pic I could have asked for.

 

I found a 67' Toronado switch on Ebay that had some great pictures showing the detail. There's definitely quite a large difference in design from the 66' switch but I would guess that the internals work similarly.

 

Super good pics. Now I can see that the release button for the pull **** is on the drivers door side of the switch, as I know the vacuum hoses are oriented towards the top. It's kind of a tangled mess of wires there - I'm hoping I can get it removed and checked out.

 

Ignition bezel is stuck tight. I ordered a bezel tool to help me get it off, which puts me back a few days on this project. I'll switch gears to another and come back to this...

 

Curious, what tool is required for that? Got a picture of it? Thx!

 

There are tons of 3-4 pronged tools listed on eBay and Amazon, but nothing ever gives the dimensions. I I bought an adjustable watch bezel tool like this one on eBay for $4. Amazon has them listed for $15. I'm sure some of the nicer tools would fit, but for only a couple uses, I figured I would throw caution to the wind with my $4...



Parts Place lists this one for Chevy
https://www.ebay.com/itm/35087222479....c100667.m2042

 

Interesting how the ports are numbered and not color-coded.
If the schematic drawing is correctly drawn for the switch ports, #1 is red, #2 is green, #3 is yellow.

I thought some more about the switch-to-relay red and yellow hoses - the red hose is used to turn headlights on (up), and the yellow hose is used to turn them off (down). the yellow hose moves the slider to connect the vacuum source to the headlight cannisters, and the red hose moves the slider to connect the cannister's residual vacuum to the headlight lock assemblies allowing the headlight doors to close - there is no active vacuum used for headlight closure.

Knowing the interconnections and beginnings/endings of vacuum pathways should be helpful in your testing of the system - again, good luck.

 

I believe that is exactly right. I know that moving the yellow hose to the red location brings the lights up quickly. Moving it back to it's original location brings them back down. I suppose the only other thing that could be wrong is that one of the hoses is switched with the green at the switch, but I can't find evidence of that. Yet.