Crank No Start
April 12th, 2015, 06:47 PM
#1
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Crank No Start
I have a 74 Delta 88 with a 350 that's cranking but not starting . Changed spark plugs , wires , distributor cap , ignition coil , and ignition module inside the hei distributor but it's not getting a spark . I noticed the wires that run to the coil and the module are in bad shape cracked and exposeing the wires . Waiting for a new connector to get here so I can replace them . Any other suggestions to why it won't start ?
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April 12th, 2015, 07:13 PM
#4
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When i attempted to start it today I could smell a strong fuel odor under the hood and before my brother tried starting fluid so I'm guessing it is . There's no fuse for the pump , do mechanical pumps have a fuse ?
April 12th, 2015, 07:41 PM
#6
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I would start with seeing if you have full battery power at the distributor in both the crank and run position.
April 12th, 2015, 07:54 PM
#7
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No fuse
No fuse. by definition mechanical is not electrical so no fuse or wires going to mechanical pump.
Pay close attention to the other advice here. An engine needs three things to run, spark, fuel and air. You have to check all three to determine what the cause of no start is.
I'm assuming your engine is turning over at normal starter speed so that you have enough battery. If not have your battery checked and charged or replaced if needed. Moving beyond that:
If you had a strong smell of gasoline when you tried to start it, and you didn't pump the foot feed like a demon, you may have a stuck float or other issue in the fuel chamber of the carburetor that is allowing gas to dump into the combustion chamber and result in a 'flooded' engine. Next time you try to start if you get that strong fuel smell, stop and turn the key off and pull a couple of plugs and see if they are wet. If so you either pumped the gas feed waaaay too much or you have unrestricted fuel flow because something is malfunctioning in the carburetor. Maybe a stuck float or float needle or maybe crud got through the fuel filter and has jammed in the float needle seat and won't allow the float and needle to shut off fuel flow in the carb.
If you pumped it too much and flooded it by your actions the way to clear a flooded engine is to hold the foot feed all the way down while you crank the engine for maybe 10-15 seconds. If it doesn't start or try to start you must stop and try plan B which is to open the hood and tap the carburetor repeatedly with a screwdriver handle around the area where the fuel line goes in. Do Not hit the carb with a hammer or heavy wrench. After tapping pull and air dry the spark plugs, replace them and try to start by just depressing the foot feed maybe 1/4 of the way and then let up and try to start. If it still floods you likely have a bad float or needle or maybe the needle seat needs replacing.
The next thing is to check for spark. There are a couple of ways to do this. Easiest is to pull a spark plug and reconnect the wire to it and lay the plug on something metal like the intake manifold so it will ground. Crank the engine and see if you can see a spark at the tip of the plug or going to ground from the plug to the engine. If you can you have spark. Alternatively you can just pull the wire and leave the spark plug in. If you have a metal connector from the wire to the plug just hold it-- with well insulated pliers-- a very short distance from the spark plug or anything metal on the engine and see if a spark jumps the gap when you crank the engine. A good strong spark will be white or blue and will have a definite 'crackle' when it sparks. If you hold the wire by hand you will most likely get shocked. Most people only need to do that once. BTW, do not have any open fuel anywhere around the spark plug or wire or any fuel leakage in the area.
Air: Unless you have a totaly plugged air filter chances are you are getting enough air. To be sure just remove the air filter element but put the air cleaner housing back on so if it backfires when trying to start any flame will be contained.
If you have fuel, spark and air and in normal quantities and it is still not starting life gets more complicated and you have to be able to logically diagnose problems like engine spark timing etc. That sort of goes beyond this Q. and A. and you need someone who can do that at your vehicle with proper instruments and tools.
Jerry
ps. Starting Fluid? what happened when you guys used starting fluid? There would be some clues from what happened then. From what you wrote I'm guessing it did nothing to help.
Last edited by 47 Convertible; April 12th, 2015 at 08:02 PM.
April 13th, 2015, 02:09 PM
#8
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Posts: 2,250
Actually 4 things, air, fuel, spark, and compression. In the correct amounts at the correct time. Chances are slim, but a jumped chain is a remote possibility.
Last edited by captjim; April 13th, 2015 at 02:13 PM.
April 13th, 2015, 02:12 PM
#9
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
_________________________________________________
No fuse. by definition mechanical is not electrical so no fuse or wires going to mechanical pump.
Pay close attention to the other advice here. An engine needs three things to run, spark, fuel and air. You have to check all three to determine what the cause of no start is.
I'm assuming your engine is turning over at normal starter speed so that you have enough battery. If not have your battery checked and charged or replaced if needed. Moving beyond that:
If you had a strong smell of gasoline when you tried to start it, and you didn't pump the foot feed like a demon, you may have a stuck float or other issue in the fuel chamber of the carburetor that is allowing gas to dump into the combustion chamber and result in a 'flooded' engine. Next time you try to start if you get that strong fuel smell, stop and turn the key off and pull a couple of plugs and see if they are wet. If so you either pumped the gas feed waaaay too much or you have unrestricted fuel flow because something is malfunctioning in the carburetor. Maybe a stuck float or float needle or maybe crud got through the fuel filter and has jammed in the float needle seat and won't allow the float and needle to shut off fuel flow in the carb.
If you pumped it too much and flooded it by your actions the way to clear a flooded engine is to hold the foot feed all the way down while you crank the engine for maybe 10-15 seconds. If it doesn't start or try to start you must stop and try plan B which is to open the hood and tap the carburetor repeatedly with a screwdriver handle around the area where the fuel line goes in. Do Not hit the carb with a hammer or heavy wrench. After tapping pull and air dry the spark plugs, replace them and try to start by just depressing the foot feed maybe 1/4 of the way and then let up and try to start. If it still floods you likely have a bad float or needle or maybe the needle seat needs replacing.
The next thing is to check for spark. There are a couple of ways to do this. Easiest is to pull a spark plug and reconnect the wire to it and lay the plug on something metal like the intake manifold so it will ground. Crank the engine and see if you can see a spark at the tip of the plug or going to ground from the plug to the engine. If you can you have spark. Alternatively you can just pull the wire and leave the spark plug in. If you have a metal connector from the wire to the plug just hold it-- with well insulated pliers-- a very short distance from the spark plug or anything metal on the engine and see if a spark jumps the gap when you crank the engine. A good strong spark will be white or blue and will have a definite 'crackle' when it sparks. If you hold the wire by hand you will most likely get shocked. Most people only need to do that once. BTW, do not have any open fuel anywhere around the spark plug or wire or any fuel leakage in the area.
Air: Unless you have a totaly plugged air filter chances are you are getting enough air. To be sure just remove the air filter element but put the air cleaner housing back on so if it backfires when trying to start any flame will be contained.
If you have fuel, spark and air and in normal quantities and it is still not starting life gets more complicated and you have to be able to logically diagnose problems like engine spark timing etc. That sort of goes beyond this Q. and A. and you need someone who can do that at your vehicle with proper instruments and tools.
Jerry
ps. Starting Fluid? what happened when you guys used starting fluid? There would be some clues from what happened then. From what you wrote I'm guessing it did nothing to help.
No fuse. by definition mechanical is not electrical so no fuse or wires going to mechanical pump.
Pay close attention to the other advice here. An engine needs three things to run, spark, fuel and air. You have to check all three to determine what the cause of no start is.
I'm assuming your engine is turning over at normal starter speed so that you have enough battery. If not have your battery checked and charged or replaced if needed. Moving beyond that:
If you had a strong smell of gasoline when you tried to start it, and you didn't pump the foot feed like a demon, you may have a stuck float or other issue in the fuel chamber of the carburetor that is allowing gas to dump into the combustion chamber and result in a 'flooded' engine. Next time you try to start if you get that strong fuel smell, stop and turn the key off and pull a couple of plugs and see if they are wet. If so you either pumped the gas feed waaaay too much or you have unrestricted fuel flow because something is malfunctioning in the carburetor. Maybe a stuck float or float needle or maybe crud got through the fuel filter and has jammed in the float needle seat and won't allow the float and needle to shut off fuel flow in the carb.
If you pumped it too much and flooded it by your actions the way to clear a flooded engine is to hold the foot feed all the way down while you crank the engine for maybe 10-15 seconds. If it doesn't start or try to start you must stop and try plan B which is to open the hood and tap the carburetor repeatedly with a screwdriver handle around the area where the fuel line goes in. Do Not hit the carb with a hammer or heavy wrench. After tapping pull and air dry the spark plugs, replace them and try to start by just depressing the foot feed maybe 1/4 of the way and then let up and try to start. If it still floods you likely have a bad float or needle or maybe the needle seat needs replacing.
The next thing is to check for spark. There are a couple of ways to do this. Easiest is to pull a spark plug and reconnect the wire to it and lay the plug on something metal like the intake manifold so it will ground. Crank the engine and see if you can see a spark at the tip of the plug or going to ground from the plug to the engine. If you can you have spark. Alternatively you can just pull the wire and leave the spark plug in. If you have a metal connector from the wire to the plug just hold it-- with well insulated pliers-- a very short distance from the spark plug or anything metal on the engine and see if a spark jumps the gap when you crank the engine. A good strong spark will be white or blue and will have a definite 'crackle' when it sparks. If you hold the wire by hand you will most likely get shocked. Most people only need to do that once. BTW, do not have any open fuel anywhere around the spark plug or wire or any fuel leakage in the area.
Air: Unless you have a totaly plugged air filter chances are you are getting enough air. To be sure just remove the air filter element but put the air cleaner housing back on so if it backfires when trying to start any flame will be contained.
If you have fuel, spark and air and in normal quantities and it is still not starting life gets more complicated and you have to be able to logically diagnose problems like engine spark timing etc. That sort of goes beyond this Q. and A. and you need someone who can do that at your vehicle with proper instruments and tools.
Jerry
ps. Starting Fluid? what happened when you guys used starting fluid? There would be some clues from what happened then. From what you wrote I'm guessing it did nothing to help.
Good post. ^^^^^ Keep in mind, wet plugs will not fire, so you may have to pull them and clean/dry them off. Check for spark first, sopunds like you have fuel.
April 13th, 2015, 02:22 PM
#10
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Location: eastern MA
Posts: 3,287
You also mentioned the wires going to coil were in bad shape? They or any other wires that have voltage running through them could be grounding out on manifold or something. I would inspect them well. I had it happen to me once and my brother saw a grounding spark jumping from a wire to the top of the intake manifold because the wire had casing melted off or cracked. I moved the wire off the manifold and it fired up.
April 13th, 2015, 02:44 PM
#11
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
I went out today and messed with it . Just for the heck of it I changed the fuel filter and the ignition rotor . I had my cousin crank the car just to make sure the rotor was turning counter clockwise as it should but still no spark . Scrappie , the wires running from the ignition coil inside the distributor to the control module are in very bad shape , all the wires are cracked and exposing little by little but havnt checked to see if theres any voltage running through them . I ordered new wires off Ebay and should get them within the week and replace them while checking the conditions of the plugs , so iam hoping the wires/connection is the problem if not im going to have my uncle whos has a lot more experience to take a look at it .
April 13th, 2015, 03:10 PM
#12
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
"it's not getting a spark...
a result of your tune up?"
===================
that's pretty funny.
Not the usual result of a tune-up though.
There is really no point in going after fuel, timing of the cam, compression, etc. if there is no spark. That is kinda crucial. What with all you have replaced, it is coming down to one component left- the pickup coil and its wires to the module. They flex in use, and so fatigue and break. To replace that you have to tear down the distributor, remove the shaft, etc. Regrease it. Polish your shaft. :-)
Or, just put a different HEI in it and be on your merry way.
I really wish I could share the video of the 403 firing right up after 6 months off duty.
a result of your tune up?"
===================
that's pretty funny.
Not the usual result of a tune-up though.
There is really no point in going after fuel, timing of the cam, compression, etc. if there is no spark. That is kinda crucial. What with all you have replaced, it is coming down to one component left- the pickup coil and its wires to the module. They flex in use, and so fatigue and break. To replace that you have to tear down the distributor, remove the shaft, etc. Regrease it. Polish your shaft. :-)
Or, just put a different HEI in it and be on your merry way.
I really wish I could share the video of the 403 firing right up after 6 months off duty.
Last edited by Octania; April 14th, 2015 at 09:51 AM.
April 14th, 2015, 03:17 PM
#13
Did you try changing the ignition module again? I had the same problem a couple of months ago on my HEI. I did a simple test, attached my timing light, cranked it for a few secs, no light/no spark. Wires and plugs are new, rotor looks good. Swapped the module, fired right up, lasted for 4 weeks, fried again. Swapped it out, working again and still working.
Last edited by chrisneu68olds; April 14th, 2015 at 03:20 PM. Reason: ...
April 14th, 2015, 04:03 PM
#14
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
"I noticed the wires that run to the coil and the module are in bad shape cracked and exposeing the wires.
___the wires running from the ignition coil inside the distributor to the control module are in very bad shape, all the wires are cracked and exposing little by little but havnt checked to see if there's any voltage running through them. I ordered new wires off Ebay and should get them within the week and replace them "
=====================
pretty sure he is referring to the pickup coil down in the center of the distributor.
Bingo.
By the way, those wires I don't think you can/ should "check for voltage running thru them".
Your local store can check your module, or run by youtube and look for a DIY how-to.
I don't think this guy is quite skilled enough to properly replace the pickup coil at this time.
So, a great alternative is to swap in a known working HEI. They are plentiful and cheap.
___the wires running from the ignition coil inside the distributor to the control module are in very bad shape, all the wires are cracked and exposing little by little but havnt checked to see if there's any voltage running through them. I ordered new wires off Ebay and should get them within the week and replace them "
=====================
pretty sure he is referring to the pickup coil down in the center of the distributor.
Bingo.
By the way, those wires I don't think you can/ should "check for voltage running thru them".
Your local store can check your module, or run by youtube and look for a DIY how-to.
I don't think this guy is quite skilled enough to properly replace the pickup coil at this time.
So, a great alternative is to swap in a known working HEI. They are plentiful and cheap.
Last edited by Octania; April 14th, 2015 at 04:06 PM.
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