joe_padavano

It really isn't particularly difficult, especially if you have help. Even by myself, I've been able to find TDC on compression pretty easily by putting a small wad of paper towel in the plug hole. Bump the starter and when the paper towel gets blown out, you're on the compression stroke. Turn the balancer to about 10 deg advanced, stab the distributor in, and crank. It helps if someone can turn the key for you, as you can slowly turn the distributor while cranking until it fires. Of course, you can also set the timing without the engine running so long as you can crank it.

cjsdad

Sometimes you make things too difficult Joe. That works if you don't have any idea where the engine position is but if you are doing your own tear-down there are modern alternatives. Take a photo of the cap and rotor position before tear-down. Everybody has a phone nowdays anyway, right? You don't need to move the crank when replacing the intake so reinstall the distributor in the same position that your photos indicate and you will be close enough to restart the engine. Whether you use RTV or gaskets to seal the manifold it needs to be set down pretty close to exact position so give yourself plenty of room. Chances are you will need to re-time the engine after changing the carburetor and intake anyway so you will already need to take the timing light out. Sure beats replacing a cracked or broken distributor cap.

joe_padavano

You are correct, I was detailing the more general case of installing a distributor for the first time. Having said that, lots of distributors were removed and reinstalled long before cell phone cameras. Simply make a mark (or piece of tape) for the vac advance can and the rotor before pulling the distributor. Naturally, note how much the rotor turns as you extract the distributor and account for this at reinstallation.

tkheld

So I do have my engine hoist at the ready to lift the intake - no way I would do that to my back. Glad to hear that I do not need to remove the distributor - one less thing to worry about. I do have a tubing bender but I will try using the standard '68-'72 fuel Iine first. As long as it clears the water neck, I can make it work.

olds 307 and 403

It is not that hard to retime an engine but why do it if you don't have to? Olds grabbed half a brain and said let's not run the distributor through the intake, why not take advantage of the superior design? There is plenty of room even with an HEI as long as the vacuum can is pointed towards the firewall. Even it isn't just turn it. Of course I don't wrangle iron intakes, other than removing them for scrap.

tkheld

Pulled the intake today. I am concerned at how much dirt was in the turkey tray. Also there was oil pooled at the back of the valley that looked a little green - perhaps like some coolant was mixed in? No indication that any RTV was used on the previous install.

What else can I inspect while here?

I plan to scrape all the crud off the surfaces and wipe down with parts cleaner. Any other tips, tricks, or suggestions?

tkheld

More pics

tkheld

Getting there - Cleaner

oldcutlass

What did the engine look like under the turkey tray? I'd loosen all the rocker assys so as to remove push rods. Keep all the push rods in order so they go back in the same slots they came out of. Pop each lifter out of its bore and inspect the bottoms of the lifters and each cam lobe thats under them. Keep lifters in order as they need to also be returned to the bore they came out of they are in good shape. If there is any wear (concave on bottoms) they need to be replaced and that cam lobe may be worn also.

tkheld

Under the turkey tray:

tkheld

So I have a spare 330 that has the bolt in tray. I have read that the turkey tray can be tricky to keep in place during installation of the intake. Is it worth using the bolt in tray from the other engine and the two piece gaskets?

oldcutlass

I would put the bolt in stock tray and use the 2 piece (called 4 piece with the 2 rubber ends), Follow the directions and throw the little tube of RTV that comes with them out as its usually dried out. Purchase a fresh tube and use it.

olds 307 and 403

That motor looks fine for being 50 years old. It is possible a small amount of coolant snuck in, assuming you properly drained it. Just do a oil change if you think some got in there. The Felpro turkey tray fits nicely, it locates itself in 4 holes. You can use this with the bolt in tray. https://m.summitracing.com/parts/fel-ms99471
Just use high temp RTV on the 4 end water ports on both sides of the gaskets. Use RTV in place of the end seals, just build the beads quite high but not too wide.

cjsdad

Like just mentioned, the coolant probably fell into the tray when you removed the intake. There is always a little left in the intake when you drain it. Nothing to worry over, just change the oil when you're done and it will all be gone.

Your lifter valley doesn't look too bad, take a look at mine.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...lots-pics.html

oldcutlass

You cannot use the turkey tray with the stock tray bolted on the lifter galley. Not enough room. Thats why there is the 4 piece gasket, Fel-Pro Intake Manifold Gaskets MS99471 available at any auto parts store.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/FPBMS99471

tkheld

Part of the reason for removing the intake was for an engine stumble that I suspect was due to a coolant leak. I had replaced every ignition electrical part and vacuum hose troubleshooting the stumble and I already had coolant puddling on top of the intake. I am hoping that this intake and carb swap solves the stumble problem. If not, I am going to start searching for a 455 while I run this 330 into the ground.

olds 307 and 403

Yes, I know, one or the other. My link is also the 4 piece set. I cannot import the early Turkey tray to Canada, the late one, no problem, go figure. So I cut my old tray and used the 4 piece with it.

sailinghudson25

If it still randomly misses, consider adding a bit larger resistor to the ignition coil. It may be overheating.


You can check if its misfiring with neon bulbs or an induction timing light. Put the bulb or the clamp on pick-up. See if it has an even beat.


I tip my hat to you still working with points. HEI kits are simple and cheap.

tkheld

Installation complete. Car fired right up but RPMs keep climbing. I can see the choke linkage working but I am not sure why the RPMs keep climbing. I had to discontinue troubleshooting due to a coolant leak at the water neck. Now I am waiting for the RTV to dry. Any suggestions? I wired the electric choke as recommended by Joe P.

oldcutlass

Define climbing? Can you release the choke or block it open? Can you adjust idle screw to reduce the rpm?

tkheld

I can see the choke linkage moving and the butterfly for the primaries is opening but the RPMs keep increasing. I started it three times but had to shut it down quickly. I don't have a tach but I can hear the RPMs climbing.

The Fast idle screw is under the choke housing and it is not easy to see that linkage and how it is set. Doesn't appear as simple as the 2GC cam steps.

olds 307 and 403

The fast just may be set way high, if so back it off one turn. Make sure all the linkages and throttle plates are moving freely. I have had a base gasket hold throttle plates partially open and another time closed, didn't allow any secondary opening.

tkheld

Well, success...and failure. Figured out the RPM problem - linkage adjustment. Car starts and runs as well as it ever has...but the stumble is still there. Back to the drawing board.

oldcutlass

Is it still doing what you described in post #1 when its hot? Recheck all your tuneup setting and look down into the throat of the carb with the engine running and see if fuel is dribbling while its idling. If it is lower your float adjustment.

olds 307 and 403

Chances of two carbs being bad is pretty low. I would really go over the ignition side as said. Check dwell, condition of all the parts along with their quality.

tkheld

So now I am going to replace each component in the ignition system, one at a time. I will start with the condenser, then points, then spark plugs, then wires, then coil (least expensive to most). I have read many posts where people lament the poor quality of the chinesium parts these days. Anyone have a recommendation for best brand and location to buy?

oldcutlass

Replace points and condenser at the same time. Standard Motors brand is good, points for a Vette have a heavier spring. Make sure your dwell is at .030 or .019 gap.

tkheld

Is this a reliable source?

http://www.parts123.com/corvettecent...47&subcat=47ER

oldcutlass

Why not your local auto parts store?

droldsmorland

I didnt re-read this whole thread. Have you provided us with baseline specs?

fuel PSI at idle-
current base timing setting at idle-
current base plus vacuum timing setting at idle-
voltage reading at the coil with the engine running-
warm vacuum reading at idle-
warm curb idle RPMs with choke off-

Throwing parts at it with out knowing some basic specifications is not efficient troubleshooting.

How many turns out are the air/fuel screws on the carb?

Look down the carb with the engine off. Actuate the throttle. Do you see two strong fuel squirts coming out of both squirters?

Have you looked at the timing chain for slop? If the cam gear has the plastic coated teeth that is likely junk by now. A sloppy chain will cause hesitation. Rotate the engine by hand back n forth with the distributor cap off. Observe how many degrees of slop are in the chain as you move the crank observing the rotor for movement. Does the timing jump around at idle while you're shooting the damper with a timing light? Open the points adjusting door on the distributor cap while it's running. Is the point plate steady or moving around?

Ecklers and Corvette Central and possibly NAPA have the "good" points and condenser.

Have you cleaned and tightened all of the engine grounds?

tkheld

I checked the voltage at the coil with the engine running. 11.3V, then as the car warmed up it dropped to 10.9V. Could this be causing my stumble issue?

oldcutlass

No, the operating voltage for a points distributor is lower because of the resistance wire.

tkheld

If possible, I would request people watch and listen to this video. See if you can hear the stumble.


This only happens with the engine at operating temp.

tkheld

I found this other thread:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...while-hot.html

The conditions sound very similar. How do you check the Heat-Riser Valve on the exhaust manifold? Should i be able to push on the counter weight?

Oldsmaniac

Yes you should be able to move the riser mechanism by hand and it should move freely. I see the stumble. Have you made sure your dwell is holding and not fluctuating?

My2nd 69 442

You may want to try pulling a plug wire with engine running and see if stumble gets worse or stays the same. Cylinders that make stumble worse are good, cylinder that does not make stumble worse is the cylinder that is causing the issue. now you at least have narrowed the problem down to what cylinder is giving you the problem

tkheld

I just tried to move the counter weight it is frozen. Since I have replaced every piece of ignition equipment, I am inclined to believe this valve is stuck half closed. It might explain why the paint was burned off the old intake in the cross overs.

Now, how to get it unstuck...

Oldsmaniac

I always take mine out,,,, remove the flapper or cut the shaft from inside leaving the ends to seal the hole that would be there if the shaft was removed. Its easier to work with the manifold off the car. I doubt you can just loosen it up then expect it to work again.

oldcutlass

Sometimes people weld faulty heat risers in place in the open position. You need to see if its stuck open or closed. If its stuck open leave it alone.

tkheld

Checked the heat riser and it is welded open so that is not the problem. I have possibly found another clue. I just installed a gauge set. I used the power window terminal for the voltmeter. I noticed today that when the engine is running cold (first 30 mins of operation), the voltmeter reads a steady 14 volts at idle in park. It reads a steady 12 volts at idle in gear.



After the engine heats up and starts stumbling, the voltage is fluctuating at idle in park, but steady 12 volts at idle in gear.


Could my alternator be causing my problem? I have swapped voltage regulators so I do not think that could be the problem. What about the wiring from the alternator?

Thanks in advance.