Hello all,
My no starting saga continues. Last year my Cutlass stalled out and I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what was wrong with the distributor. It was an old points style. I changed capacitors, updated points, re-wired everything but it wouldn't spark. I finally took it to a mechanic nearby to have them fix the distributor and the mechanic refused and said the distributor had gone bad and that I needed an HEI distributor. He said either remove your car off my lot (I'd have to pay for towing again) or let him fix it. So I let him fix it by swapping out the distributor and the car did start though it ran terribly because the carb was out of adjustment and I'm not sure the timing is perfect (still need to check that). So I drove it home which was a scary experience due to how poorly the car ran but I didn't want to take it back to the mechanic because his work is questionable. I tried to start it about 2 weeks later and it would run for a moment then die. I finally was sick of trying to get it to work and let it sit until about 3 months ago. I needed to move it to my new house and wanted to drive it so I spent some time getting the carb tuned and fixing some other various issues. I got it to drive and it was actually running pretty well so I drove it the 45 miles to my new home. The next day I started up to back it out of the carport a bit to do some cleaning and while it was running, I hopped in and it just died. I tried to start it but it wouldn't fire. So I took a wire out and hooked it up to my spark tester light and no spark yet again. Below are the things I have checked in order on the new distributor so far in trying to diagnose why it won't spark:

BATT Terminal on distributor - I checked to see if the distributor was getting antiquate power - it was getting 12.67 volts from the battery when cranking
Cap and Rotor - This was a visual inspection and I didn't see any sort of burn marks or disfiguration on either.
Control Module - I took it to AutoZone as they said they could test it. It tested to be in working order.
Ignition Coil - I tested the primary and secondary windings and they both tested within tolerance of the ohms
Primary was reading at .7 ohms - Between .1-1 is the tolerance
Secondary was testing at around 8600 ohms - Between 3,000 and 30,000 ohms is the tolerance
After these tests I took the distributor off the car to see if there was some sort of issue with the grounding or connection with the car and to test it as a stand alone unit. In this test I hooked it up directly to the battery where I ran a wire from the + terminal of the battery to the BATT terminal of the distributor. Then I hooked a wire from the - battery terminal to the metal hook of the cap, then i took a spark plug and plug wire and hook that to a cap terminal, then ran a ground wire from the spark plug to another hook on the cap. Then I spun it and it didn't spark. It didn't make any sort of clicking noise indicating a spark was jumping inside the cap either.
Magnetic Pickup Coil - Tested to be around 808 ohms which is in tolerance. Between 500-1500 ohms is tolerance. I also spun the shaft to see if it would generate any AC current and it would get up to 1.5 volts depending on how fast I spun it with my hand.

I'm not sure what else there is to test, I mean its a pretty simple part and those are the main components. I did call the mechanic to see if the part was under warranty and he said it has a 2 year warranty through him but that I'd need to bring in the car to fix it. I asked if he could test the distributor outside of the car and he said that's not possible, which is inaccurate. Any advise or ideas would be helpful!

Best,
James

 

Are you sure they tested the module correctly? I have had rear problems with my 70 with a HEI. I don't drive it much, had a new module, and went to start one day and no go. No spark, got a new one and started right up. I don't think the old one had less than 500 miles on it. I try to buy a good brand, but have heard other guys say they have had them go bad in a short time/ Might be worth trying a new one, or take old one to a different shop to test. Also there are some good videos on youtube showing how to test them.

 

One more thing, make sure you use plenty of the heat gel under it.

 

Thanks for the recommendation! I did also buy a second one which i had them check as well because ive read they are a pretty faulty part and often fail right off the shelf. I installed it and it didn't change anything. So I went to the next steps.

 

I’d suspect the pickup coil if it never sparks based on your tests. I fought with a distributor and replaced it with a proform from Amazon, adjusted the vacuum advance can and life is good. Does it spin freely or does it feel bound when out of the car?

 

In his first post the OP states,
"Magnetic Pickup Coil - Tested to be around 808 ohms which is in tolerance. Between 500-1500 ohms is tolerance. I also spun the shaft to see if it would generate any AC current and it would get up to 1.5 volts depending on how fast I spun it with my hand."

 

It looks like everything tests as it should. On the stock HEI, about the only thing I have seen fail is the pick up coils. You could try a different module or a new distributor all together.

 

Thanks for the suggestion! I did replace the module with a new one that I had tested before I took it home. I also had the one installed checked and it also checked out so I'm pretty sure thats not the issue, but I've heard they are a pretty faulty part and fail often.

 

Do you know if there is a different way to test the pick up coil? I tested the resistance as well as how well it spins and it spins freely and without binding up or anything like that. It feels smooth. I'm not sure what other tests I can preform.

 

You already did the best test the pick up coil that I know of = AC voltage output.
What you can do is flex and gently pull on the P/U coil wires while testing AC voltage output. Over the years these wires can break inside the insulation due to the constant flexing caused by the vacuum advance canister.

 

This is not the system on the OP's vehicle.

 

Thanks, I'll have to try that. And I took the distributor out and hooked it up directly to the battery, which I forgot to mention is brand new. My old battery was very old and tested bad so I replaced it. So as far as I can tell, there is electricity going to the BATT terminal on the distributor. I didn't test the current beyond that but i wasn't sure how or if that was required.

 

I did see that as being something to test and gave it a good wiggle while testing both resistance and ac output. But this distributor is brand new and only has ~50 miles on it so I don't think it should have the wire ware that comes from the vacuum advance moving back and forth.

 

I have a stupid question but I have to ask . . . . . . Is the distributor turning when in the car ??

 

Well I didn't say anything about that in my description of things I checked and it is a pretty important thing to be sure of, so it's a good questions. But yes, it did spin when it was in the car. And it spins smoothly out of the car as well.

 

I had to ask because I had a friend years go crazy trying to figure out a similar issue and it turned out the distributor wasnt even turning. His was a Ford engine and the camshaft was broken but every time I see something like this I think about it

It sounds like you have done all of the tests correctly. The only thing I would question is how did Autozone test the module ? I am thinking that is probably what is bad. It would probably be less expensive to buy a module to try as compared to towing the car back to the mechanic for him to fix it.

I dont know where you are located but maybe there is somebody close by who would loan you a module to try ?

 

That makes sense to me! Luckily the distributor and the cam are still in good condition. And they hooked it up to a computer tester in the back. I watched the system run and it had 5 or 6 things it checked, though I don't remember what all they were. But all lights were green. I had them check the new one as well just in case and it registered the same. All lights were green.

 

IMO you need to test with a good known unit. Roll the dice with another new one or if you’re acquainted with any Olds people nearby do a quick swap. Everything says it should work, but it don’t. I’m curious to see if the problem follows.

 

What color are the wires on the coil? And the pickup? I would guess the manufacturer of said HEI, if you bought it as a unit, came with the correct polarity. I don't know. There are generally two types of coils for GM HEI. Yellow/red, and white/red wires. Olds typically uses white/red. But could have yellow/red on some models. Olds pickup coils normally use white/green wire with black, sometimes yellow, connector plastic. Polarity won't affect the unit from firing, but it could run rougher than normal.

How's the button underneath the coil? I've seen those have issues where the button doesn't actually touch the rotor tab causing issues.

Of course, the wiring is that way for an OEM Delco distributor. All bets are off if it's made of chinesium. I have no idea what those things use.

I'm sure it's something simple that hasn't been found yet.

 

I'm in NW Arkansas if anyone is near and would be willing to loan me a control module for testing purposes.

And I believe the wires for the coil are red and yellow but i'll need to take a look after work to confirm. And I'm not sure about the wire color for the pick up off the top of my head but i'll look at that as well. Unfortunately, I'm not sure of the brand of the HEI as I didn't purchase or install myself. It could be a cheap Chinese part. I know I paid $250 for the distributor alone from the mechanic but that doesn't mean anything.

The button looks good but I didn't check if it was making contact with the rotor tab. It did look like the rotor tab had some marks indicating there was contact but I guess I could bend the tab up just a hair, just to be sure.

 

Don't get hung up on the colors though. Try to ascertain what brand of HEI you have, and check any documentation about what is supposed to go in it. There SHOULD be some information on it somewhere. Without knowing, don't simply start changing parts out just because. Shooting a parts cannon at it isn't the goal here. I was thinking if it was a Delco OEM type unit, then colors DO matter. I know nothing about aftermarket HEIs.

 

I had several bad new module's. A lot of the parts today are junk. I went with a Pertronix module and found it to be of quality.

 

years ago, I had a no start problem, ended up being a pin hole burnt thru the rotor under the spring tab, went thru rotor and arced on top of the dist. shaft piece of gum was a temp fix to get home