pistonpop

OK, another crazy idea I have. I have been reading up on water methanol injection. A kit was featured on SPIKE TV’s Power Block. It was
http://www.snowperformance.net/categories.php
Looks pretty impressive, but I am not sure of its performance. They claim anywhere from 40-60 HP increase with timing advanced by 4 degrees? I found a lot of pros and cons, read a lot about benefits, but real need to find out more. Snows tech support was really helpful, and a friend of mine had seen the same show and also thought it was impressive. So who can steer me straight on this one?
John NY
71 Cutlass S 350/350

pistonpop

Here is the Muscle car aplication by snow performance
http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=77

pistonpop

Here is a Youtube video I found with dyno testing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuSKB...layer_embedded

jensenracing77

i did not look at your links yet but the biggest reason for water meth injection is to prevent detonation. it by itself won't crate much if any power. it is mostly used with turbo systems because of the heat it creates. the water meth injection cools the fuel air mix. the only reason i know much about it is because i just got a 62 jetfire and they came factory with a water meth setup. they called it turbo rocket fluid. i have done alot of reading about it lately. i missed the show but my friends were telling me about it.

jensenracing77

this is a good video on it. for the most part, it is a way to run a hotter setup without running race gas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPFZWd8wj4

pistonpop

Looks great! Do you or anyone else out there think I will gain any bennies from installing a meth kit? Or for
My setup, it's just a waste of money?

pistonpop

According to the video link you posted. Advanced in timing and the steaming process in the combustion chamber alone will increase HP on a normally no boosted asperated engine!

jensenracing77

i think the steaming is a little far fetched but i am no expert. almost all the vaporizing will already have been done by the time it is ready to fire i would think. i don't think it will give enough gain to be worth it if you don't make any other changes. if you are not needing race gas now then i don't think you would need water meth. if it is not hot there is not much to cool. if you were boosting and wanted to add more and not run race gas for street use then it would be great.

the Jetfire is 10.25:1 compression and boosting around 6 psi on top of that. on pump gas it would ping and detonate bad if it were not for the water meth. in this case the water meth still don't add power but it lets the engine make the power it is capable of without burning up.

on one of your links, i would like to see the dyno results compared the way they did it to the same car with race gas and no water meth. i bet there wouldn't be that much differance.

brown7373

I bought a Holley Water Injection system back in the early 80s, just about the time they lowered the octane in premium fuel. I had a 70 Pontiac 455 with over 10:1 and it started pinging on the new, lower octane fuel. Maybe the Holley system was no good, or maybe I didn't set it up and adjust it properly, but my car still pinged and it was eventually junked (the water injection). Maybe the systems are better today, or maybe it's snake oil. I don't know.

pistonpop

Why is it there is not anyone or any one company willing to do an independent, impartial test with before and after dyno results on this and other types of add on system? And not consumer reports! I find they are not always on the money with their testing! Especially electronics.

Or is there?

cutlassefi

One of the magazines just did a piece on this, do a search.

There are a few good ones but Snow and Labonte seem to be the most popular.

jensenracing77

i can say for sure this one isn't snake oil. it works great in the right application. for the most part, this setup is for turbocharged or supercharged engines used on the street. this way you don't have to run race gas to drive down the road in a high boost engine. again i am no expert on it but looked into it heavy the past month. i have a friend that was using it on a turbo diesel truck.

joe_padavano

Be aware that water/methanol injection by itself does not add power. It ENABLES you to do other things that increase cylinder pressure and thus increase HP.

jag1886

What he said is correct, injection will make a power difference if you have an engine that runs on the edge of pinging (like a P-51 Mustang at 30,000'), then you will get a power boost, if your car runs fine on pump gas there will not be any real advantage.

pistonpop

So if there is no real advantage for a normally asperated engine why is it Snow performance, among others, are claiming and offering a kit for reg gas engines, (non forced induction)? Is it because I can increase my timing? Is this where I could see a Hp gain? I am confused?

70Post

BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING SOMETHING!!

In theory, it has an application.....you could run cheaper lower octane fuel and get the same performance. But - do the math - you'd probably have to drive A LOT of miles to see any sort of meaningful payback.

coppercutlass

The gain can be 1 hp and they can legit say that it makes hp. I have seen mustang guys run the snow kits but they usually have a nice blower to go with it .

pistonpop

I might just dyno my cutlass, get a baseline, and post my results! I am SICK of BS manufacture claims! If a magazine reviews a product by a manufacture, and that manufacture buys plenty of advertising space in that magazine, how fair do you think the review is on that product? Would you bite the hand that feeds you? I am heavly in the consumer electronics biz, and it's seems that how it is, a bit bias!

I just might!