Sorry if this is the wrong place for this post, but it is for a small 71 small-block 350...

I have noticed recently that my starter is struggling when the engine starts to build compression during cranking. If I've just driven the car recently (10 minutes ago) and try to start it, it cranks for a second or less and gets suddenly "quiet" until the engine suddenly starts. It is really hard to explain the sound, but I am really glad the car starts after that first compression stroke...

Anyway, I was thinking of replacing the wiring to the starter and replacing the starter altogether. I'd like to get one so that I can get headers into the car... I ran into some questions :

1. Are there any downsides to going with a "clockable mini-starter"?
2. Do I need a mini-starter to get headers into my 71 Cutlass convertible (I already moved the brake combo valve)?
3. What level of torque will be necessary for a stock-rebuilt 350?
4. I was thinking of this one; has anyone tried it out?: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-820311/
5. Anyone know who builds Summit's house-branded stuff? Is it generally ok?

I know this is a lot of questions, but if you can answer any of them, please feel free - I'm looking for advice and ideas...

The background is: I want to get my 350 to start and breathe a little more easily, but without breaking the bank. I am planning (if I can find a decent core) to build an Olds 455 for this car someday "soon". No reason to have a million dollar diamond encrusted starter or headers for the 350, just something that'll work reliably.

Thanks!

 

I'm running a stock starter motor with headers and haven't had any issues, I used to run the timing at about 8 degree's BTDC and that would cause the issues you are describing. Slow cranking when warm.

 

I too run a stock starter with my 71 Cutlass 350 with headers with no issues. I actually just replaced it last week with a new stock starter from Auto Zone - cost me $50. The only issue is changing it out once you have headers is a bit of a challenge - I did have to unbolt the header to squeeze the starter out from under them and to get the new one back in - and it took a small amount of persuasion from a 3 foot crowbar to make that squeeze. Other than that - I think you will be fine with a stock unit - don't spend a lot of money on a high end aftermarket starter - not worth it, imo.

 

Really? I've heard nightmare stories from folks with Chevelles about the headers having to be hammered into shape and then overheating the starter, etc., etc.

Anyhow, I don't think heat is my issue here. I'm running 6* with manifolds. Also, when I start the car after 2 weeks of sitting or so, it cranks well - right up until the first point that it actually gets fuel to the engine. Then it slows to the point you think it won't start but - bang - it fires up. IDK, just figured the starter and/or starter wiring is the issue.

 

timing

 

I had the same issue with slow starting on my 455 starter. Just last week I installed a new solinoid on the starter and a new positive battery cable. The difference is night and day, and totally fixed my problem.

You don't need a mini starter. I'd be looking at your battery connections-wires and terminals also.

I have headers...but run much more timing than you. In fact I think your leaving a little power on the table by not running more intial timing. If your timing is that low and you have trouble starting, your problem is elsewhere.

Have you thought about priming your carb with some gas to get it to fire quicker after it sits awhile?

 

Heh, yeah. The problem is that the starter seems weak whether or not the engine is cold and been sitting or warm and primed. If the engine didn't fire after the first good compression stroke, it sounds like the starter wouldn't be able to turn it over...

You may be right - but for now I want everything close-to-stock. It's the original engine for this car, so I don't want to take any chances. Don't want to induce detonation.


So it seems that no one thinks my starter may be crappin' out. That's good, I guess. On the other hand, what would be the sign of a starter going bad?

 

I had starter problems on my 455 with headers. Started fine til it was hot. Had to wait about 15 minutes after turning it off before it would start. Had a heat shield on the starter, header tape on headers and still had problems. I got a lifetime warranty starter and just replaced is every summer. Maybe cheap starters?

 

I have had an issue with starters becoming overheated from headers and failing to start after a bit of a drive. Now I just wrap the starter with 2 layers of Thermo Tec and it is good to go.

 

Same. I wrapped mine with a similar tape and also the selenoid. No problems to date. I did however have to "customize" the headers to clear. Heddman's.

 

What kind of "customization" are we talking about here? Like BFH customization or cutting and welding?

Would a mini-starter eliminate the need for customization???

 

I've never ran into any problems with my Chevelle overheating the starter. I did have to use the BFH to persuade the headers to fit correctly. Nothing too major.
As far as my 72 hardtop cutlass, I had the same issue that you're having. Upgrading the electrical system is what helped me. I used a thicker gauge wire from the starter to the battery and I bought a higher amperage alternator.It was the best thing I've ever done for the car. Not only can I run my system but i keep my HID lights on all the time and when i pull to a gas station or run quick errands I can turn the car off and then back on with no problems. I use to be afraid to turn it off and started to carry around a portable jump box with me.....HAHA!
Never again my friend.

I just installed the headers on my convertible with a 455 so it's a little to early to tell if I'll have problems but so far so good.

 

Small FH

 

Sweet. I got a few SFHs and BFHs around, but no welder yet.

 

I used a mini starter on my old man's 69' Goat. The pontiac's seem to have more of a heat soak problem with the starter, the olds no so much, at least in my experience. The starter heat wrap from summit helps too.