Replacing Head Gaskets On My 330 (lots of pics)
Out of Line, Everytime😉
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,085
From: Melville, Saskatchewan
Olds heads hold up really well, just like the rest of the motor. Run it for a bit and recheck the torque. I blew out a Corteco head gasket a year ago, replacements, so far, so good. I did a good clean up like you. Looked like a hack job, they probably broke that bridge when the heads were pulled. Those were the old Detroit head gaskets on your 330, were usually good but probably slapped in with no clean up. I would have swapped out that iron hunk and crappy 2bbl but that would probably finish it off completely
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Registered User
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,589
From: Texas
Someone has already done some work on this motor, the bottom end and rings maybe fine. Apparently the OP didnt know this until he saw the replaced timing chain, or thats my impression by his post. So i think what hes doing is ok, I mean he did have bad head gasgets. My only concern is the deck surface on the drivers side of the block. Where you sanded it, obviously the darker areas are low spots, the brighter areas are where the sand paper came in contact to the surface. Some of the low spots connect from water jacket to cylinder. As he said they all had different milling markings, the drivers side deck looks like the mill had some problems, perhaps giving a poor gasget seal. But again its his car, its ok go give suggestions but dont bash him. Of course some here always think their better.
Steve
Steve
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,304
From: NJ
My feelings are let time decide if he did the right thing or not. It may work fine and it may give trouble at least he tried and made an effort and it is for now better than it was. Machine shop service is not always necessary for parts and even shops send out bad stuff. Had a crank done and about 1000 miles later there was the slightest of a knock. i pulled it apart and took it back to the same shop. They said my crank was bent....hmmm how does that happen?! They turned it again after straightening it and me paying the bill again, and it is fine....
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,556
From: Harrison, Michigan
Look, Guys! If this were a full-on restoration, or if I were absolutely going to tear the engine down completely and rebuild it then yes, I would throw the $$$ at it and do it all to your satisfaction. But if replacing head gaskets meant a tear-down and rebuild every time, there would be an awful lot of cars that would never run again. I mentioned that this engine was 45 years old earlier, well I was wrong, it's 48 years old. It has lots of wear on it. It's tired! Not every part that comes off an engine needs to be remanufactured to original tolerances every time it comes apart. This was an expedient repair to get a little more service out of a tired, worn out, 48 year old engine and have a little driving fun in the Hooptie this summer. If you want to offer advice something like, "If this were my engine, the heads would go to the machine shop for a rebuild." Or "The wear on that engine suggests it should be completely rebuilt so it can be reliable and road-worthy." But to tell me I'm a cheap bastard because I didn't put enough money into this tired old dog is not constructive in any way. Make your comments and follow them up with constructive suggestions or criticisms, not just snarky shots about how much money you have in the pocket book. Be nice! I promise that you will get to see a lot more work go into this car. Engine, trans, body, interior, the whole thing. This is not a daily driver so if I get a few miles of fun out of it before I tear it all apart, it was worth it to me.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 86
From: Fowlerville Michigan
If people make funny remarks, it makes me laugh. To indiscriminately tell me that my heads are warped when you have absolutely no idea about the history of me or my engine is bordering on ridiculous. Your experience is impressive, no doubt, so I'm sure your comment was meant to be educational. But you have no idea what my experience or skill level is so your comment was belittling. Be nice and people will be nice back!
If this were a fresh engine then yes I would have checked the deck and heads for straightness. I have a precision ground straight edge in my garage. If I were trying to build a performance engine, you bet it would go to a machine shop for blueprinting. This turned into a minimalist repair when I found 3~4 thousandths ridge in the top of the cylinder bores. If I get a couple of months of top-down motoring this spring and summer I will have been successful in repairing this engine. For now!
If this were a fresh engine then yes I would have checked the deck and heads for straightness. I have a precision ground straight edge in my garage. If I were trying to build a performance engine, you bet it would go to a machine shop for blueprinting. This turned into a minimalist repair when I found 3~4 thousandths ridge in the top of the cylinder bores. If I get a couple of months of top-down motoring this spring and summer I will have been successful in repairing this engine. For now!
Amazing what this turned into, I think you will be just fine. Everything here always has to turn into a full restoration...geeez.
'87 Delta 88 Royale
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,514
From: Margate, England
What has it cost in parts to replace the blown gaskets?.
What a full on overhaul cost?.
How long to overhaul the engine?
The OP wants his car back together for a seasons cruising. His engine doesn't need to be as new for that, if he was beating down a drag strip or round a race track that would be another matter.
So lets wish him well, and look forward to spotting his car being enjoyed as it was intended.
If at a later date he decides to go down the expensive route of a full overhaul, well he got another season out of it first.
Roger.
What a full on overhaul cost?.
How long to overhaul the engine?
The OP wants his car back together for a seasons cruising. His engine doesn't need to be as new for that, if he was beating down a drag strip or round a race track that would be another matter.
So lets wish him well, and look forward to spotting his car being enjoyed as it was intended.
If at a later date he decides to go down the expensive route of a full overhaul, well he got another season out of it first.
Roger.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
It is a '67 Cutlass Convertible. Base model, low compression, two barrel carb. It will be a four barrel Q-Jet when I am done. I don't expect a lot more performance out of it with the Q-Jet, but maybe a bit more drivability and economy with the smaller primaries.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
It isn't back together yet, I picked up a pair of rockers and a bridge at a wrecking yard and I haven't had a day to myself since then. It did run pretty decent before so I have high hopes for it once it is back together. The previous owner told me his "Master Mechanic Uncle" had worked on it and rebuilt the 2-Jet, which of course, leaked terribly. The timing was so far off it wouldn't run. So I had to go through the whole tune-up process before I could get it to run the first time. It was soon after that I found the bubbles in the radiator and it has been sitting since then.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
I posted a couple replies in another thread about the closing-up of this engine. Just in case you missed it, I am copying to this thread too.
I have been feeling bad about leaving the engine apart with nothing but a towel to keep dirt and debris out. I couldn't put the engine back together with a clear conscience without cleaning things up a bit. So the rockers, bridges, and pushrods went into the parts cleaner. The difference was quite refreshing for the short amount of time the parts spent in the cleaner. The lifter valley was vacuumed out with the shopvac and then blown out with compressed air. The valley pan was treated to a session with a wire brush.
Here are some before and after pics.
Here are some before and after pics.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
With the intake installed I can be fairly sure that the internals of the engine will now stay clean and protected from Mother Nature. The valve covers are reversed but I need to take them back off before I start it up again anyway. I need to pour some oil on the rockers and bridges because they are completely dry after being cleaned. Interesting note, the pivot surfaces of the aluminum bridges looked factory new and the steel rockers show lots of wear.
Intake%20Installed_zps5cwtenrr.jpg
Intake%20Installed_zps5cwtenrr.jpg
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
You may notice that the original intake was for a two-barrel carb and this one is for a 4-barrel. This intake was essentially free so why not use it. It is an EGR manifold so I plugged the holes at the bottom of the plenum with pipe plugs that came in an engine freeze plug kit from years ago. I had to find the correct size NPT tap and the only place I could find one was at Harbor Freight in a three-tap set. Obviously there is a bit of a rough surface with the hex socket of the plugs, but it seems better than the holes that were there before.
Here is what it looked like when I found it.
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After some clean-up, rust remover, and some surface prep. You can see the EGR holes in the bottom of the plenum here.
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The holes drilled out.
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Plenum plugged! All threaded holes cleaned. I will need to find some solid covers for the EGR port and the choke heater port since I have an electric choke for the carburetor.
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Here is what it looked like when I found it.
IMG_20140503_150637_568_zpsmgyi5bfm.jpg
After some clean-up, rust remover, and some surface prep. You can see the EGR holes in the bottom of the plenum here.
IMG_20141020_205032675_HDR_zps04ig86kq.jpg
The holes drilled out.
IMG_20150303_173833204_zpsl655m4zp.jpg
Plenum plugged! All threaded holes cleaned. I will need to find some solid covers for the EGR port and the choke heater port since I have an electric choke for the carburetor.
IMG_20150303_180601570_zpsnpmcarks.jpg
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
It is a significant bit of change. It can be done for less, depending on the amount of work the engine actually needs. If all the crank journals are still round and not worn down significantly you can skip grinding down .010 on all the bearing surfaces. If the valve guides are not worn out, you can skip replacing those. If the valves themselves are not worn down too badly, you can skip replacing those. But that is only three of a long list of "ifs" that cost money to bring back to original specification when they are worn. Too bring everything back to factory fresh spec, you can almost guarantee spending $5K.
'87 Delta 88 Royale
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,514
From: Margate, England
That's the sort of figure I thought you might say give or take $1k either way.
I mean no disrespect by what I'm about to write, please don't be offended and correct me if I'm wrong;
I'm inferring that you don't have a better than showroom car, and like to drive it for pleasure whenever you see fit. Quite possibly you get at least as much fun from driving it as looking at it on a showfield. I also suspect you don't have an unlimited budget.
For 3% of the cost of a full, nothing missed or skimped rebuild you have a car good for driving for fun again. You are aware that the engine has some wear, so presumably you will drive it accordingly.
I was surprised at the amount of negative posts you got because you simply fixed what was wrong instead of a full rebuild. Before the gasket failure did the car drink oil or struggle to start or get up hills?. If it did I might be more inclined to think more work should have been done, if not, then for a modest outlay you have a car you can enjoy driving again. Good for you I say!.
Roger.
I mean no disrespect by what I'm about to write, please don't be offended and correct me if I'm wrong;
I'm inferring that you don't have a better than showroom car, and like to drive it for pleasure whenever you see fit. Quite possibly you get at least as much fun from driving it as looking at it on a showfield. I also suspect you don't have an unlimited budget.
For 3% of the cost of a full, nothing missed or skimped rebuild you have a car good for driving for fun again. You are aware that the engine has some wear, so presumably you will drive it accordingly.
I was surprised at the amount of negative posts you got because you simply fixed what was wrong instead of a full rebuild. Before the gasket failure did the car drink oil or struggle to start or get up hills?. If it did I might be more inclined to think more work should have been done, if not, then for a modest outlay you have a car you can enjoy driving again. Good for you I say!.
Roger.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
That's the sort of figure I thought you might say give or take $1k either way.
I mean no disrespect by what I'm about to write, please don't be offended and correct me if I'm wrong;
I'm inferring that you don't have a better than showroom car, and like to drive it for pleasure whenever you see fit. Quite possibly you get at least as much fun from driving it as looking at it on a showfield. I also suspect you don't have an unlimited budget.
For 3% of the cost of a full, nothing missed or skimped rebuild you have a car good for driving for fun again. You are aware that the engine has some wear, so presumably you will drive it accordingly.
I was surprised at the amount of negative posts you got because you simply fixed what was wrong instead of a full rebuild. Before the gasket failure did the car drink oil or struggle to start or get up hills?. If it did I might be more inclined to think more work should have been done, if not, then for a modest outlay you have a car you can enjoy driving again. Good for you I say!.
Roger.
I mean no disrespect by what I'm about to write, please don't be offended and correct me if I'm wrong;
I'm inferring that you don't have a better than showroom car, and like to drive it for pleasure whenever you see fit. Quite possibly you get at least as much fun from driving it as looking at it on a showfield. I also suspect you don't have an unlimited budget.
For 3% of the cost of a full, nothing missed or skimped rebuild you have a car good for driving for fun again. You are aware that the engine has some wear, so presumably you will drive it accordingly.
I was surprised at the amount of negative posts you got because you simply fixed what was wrong instead of a full rebuild. Before the gasket failure did the car drink oil or struggle to start or get up hills?. If it did I might be more inclined to think more work should have been done, if not, then for a modest outlay you have a car you can enjoy driving again. Good for you I say!.
Roger.
passenger_side2.jpg
'87 Delta 88 Royale
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,514
From: Margate, England
Thanks Roger, you are correct that the Hooptie II is no trailer queen. In fact it is quite a project. I don't know if the engine used oil or not, I was only able to drive it for about 20 miles so far because the first symptom was loss of coolant. The engine started easy and ran quite strong for having bad head gaskets so I don't expect too many other problems yet. This is just the tip of the iceberg as the saying goes.
Roger.
Justin
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,453
From: utah
Man that would be a killer DD
Great job,
The only thing different, I would have done is, had the heads checked. You are correct, it would add. any where from 100-800 for a good rebuild depending what's wrong.
I agree a rebuilt short block ranges from 1500-3000 depending on parts and what you do your self
Great job,
The only thing different, I would have done is, had the heads checked. You are correct, it would add. any where from 100-800 for a good rebuild depending what's wrong.
I agree a rebuilt short block ranges from 1500-3000 depending on parts and what you do your self
Last edited by oldstata; Jun 4, 2015 at 08:48 PM.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
IMG_20121012_112328_zps999b33be.jpg
should run good.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
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'87 Delta 88 Royale
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,514
From: Margate, England
Roger.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,663
From: Norfolk, Va
IT LIVES!!! I have everything back together and running, sorta. I made a cover plate for the EGR opening, I bought a new breather to replace the oil-soaked rag that was hanging out of the valve cover before, and a new air cleaner. The carburetor I have is total crap though. The idle circuit for the passenger side cylinders is dead and the accelerator pump is not working. Even with a new kit in it But I took it for a drive and it runs really well on the primary circuit. I have one leak after having everything apart and put back together. I forgot to put teflon tape on one of the plugs in the water jacket. An easy thing to fix. So, I am now on the hunt for a Quadrajet for it.
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