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Hi, hoping for input from the experts that hopefully leads to the resolution of my problem.
The car is a 65 F85 Cutlass, 330 engine (believed to be the original engine), no AC, no PS, single belt, built in Canada. It appears that alignment of the pulleys is poor, see photos.
Misalignment between the alternator and water pump pulleys is close to 1/4''. It's a bit less between WP pulley and crankshaft pulley. Overall the alignment could be improved if the water pump pulley were closer to the engine. I confirmed that I have the shortest pump (5.1''), that leaves the WP pulley itself. It measures 1 13/16th from the mounting surface to the outside edge, see image. If that dimension were larger, alignment would be better.
I couldn't find any markings on the pulley (or the pump for that matter).
What say the experts? Do I have the wrong pulley? If yes, which is the correct one, and where do I get it? Do you see anything else that could explain this?
Thanks!
Last edited by Bremer; July 3rd, 2019 at 09:07 PM.
I'm sure someone with a lot more expertise will set us straight. But I can tell you of what has happened to me. I have had cars that I couldn't get the pulleys aligned. I checked the flange which the pulley bolts to on the water pump and found it to be in the wrong position. I checked the flange on another pump from my local auto parts and found it to be closer to what I figured I needed so I put a new pump on and problem solved. I see your pump is new, or recently replaced, so you may find you are having the same problem I had.
Good luck,
I'm sure someone with a lot more expertise will set us straight. But I can tell you of what has happened to me. I have had cars that I couldn't get the pulleys aligned. I checked the flange which the pulley bolts to on the water pump and found it to be in the wrong position. I checked the flange on another pump from my local auto parts and found it to be closer to what I figured I needed so I put a new pump on and problem solved. I see your pump is new, or recently replaced, so you may find you are having the same problem I had.
Good luck,
This is exactly what I was going to say. The pulleys aligned when the car left the factory, and from the photos it APPEARS that the water pump pulley doesn't align with the crank, either, though that is difficult to see in these photos. In the future, it would be helpful if you posted a photo taken directly in line with the belt, so we can see the actual pulley alignment. Just because an aftermarket pump is new doesn't mean that it is built correctly. It's also possible that the water pump pulley is not original to the motor. Can you post the part number and two letter code stamped into that pulley? The correct pulley should be P/N 382420.
I'll also add that your alternator bracket looks like a 1964 bracket. What is the build date of this car (from the cowl tag)?
Hi Joe, thanks for the pulley PN. As mentioned in my first post, my WP pulley has no markings on it. Alternator and crank pulley seem to be in alignment, more or less.
Interesting that my alternator bracket could be from a 64. Would that change alignment? I'll look if I've got some more photos of it.
See the car's tags in the photos.
That is a 64 style Alt bracket, I have a early 65 with the same bracket.
I would guess the issue is the water pump flange depth, maybe it was rebuilt or replaced at some point and the shaft wasn't pressed on all the way/far enough, also production lines and parts are not always looked at that closely.
Do you have issues with throwing belts? If not might have been the way tfrom when it was when new,
Maybe look at another pump and compare to what you have.
Thanks for confirming the bracket year/style.
I don't have issues with throwing the belt, but the belt is definitely wearing on its sides, and it can't be good for the pulleys, either.
When the pulley was off, I measured the height of the pump, and it was just over 5''. If the pump was the issue, I'd need one that is 4.8'', which never came on these vehicles.
Would anyone know the depth of the correct pulley 382420 as measured in the first picture of this thread?
I did a quick measurement on my 65 Waterpump a few weeks ago and it was 5" something, you might be better off looking at the flange to casting front dimension, and see if there is room to press it farther to achieve the 4.8" dim.
I will see if I can dig it back out and get both dimensions with a little better accuracy.
Maybe someone has a parts catalog, and can give you the pulley part numbers to compare?
if the existing WP pulley has no part no. I suspect it may be a 64 and not the crank pully match you need 382420
here is a pic of where the pn is stamped. on the 65 pulley
Last edited by lunaboy; July 4th, 2019 at 10:32 AM.
i see your in vancouver, darn, i just sent my 65 parts car away and it had a 330 in it, i never saved the crank pulley. but i did save the one year only alt bracket, there are three different length waterpumps available. that may be your fix
I measured mine flange front to mounting surface is 5.1, flange front to casting snout is 1.25.
I have never rebuilt a water pump or had one apart so you would most likely have to talk to a rebuild and see if its possible to press it together at a shorter overall length.
Thanks Jmos. I definitely have the "Standard" configuration.
If you don't mind, it would be helpful for me to get a measurement from the inside mounting surface to the outside of the pulley (as shown in my first picture of this thread).
Alternatively, if you have the pulley mounted to the pump, a measurement from the pulley to the pump's mounting surface. That would help me narrow down the problem. Thanks in advance!
Mine is also in pieces as I am getting a 455 built for my car, as I blew up my 330 last year.
I can dig out the water pump pulley and get you a measurement, but not sure what that will tell you.
Regards,
Ah, ok, I misunderstood. Thought you had the "Standard" configuration on your 330 as well.
But if you have the pulley for my config, a measurement as shown in the first image will confirm if I have the correct pulley. I suspect I don't, but would be good to confirm.
Look, this isn't difficult. The attached diagram is from the 1965 A-body Assembly Manual. It clearly shows that the center of the groove for the alternator belt is 3.530" from the front cover. The flange on the water pump is 5.1" from the front cover (plus the thickness of the water pump gasket). The correct pulley has a dimension of 5.1 - 3.53 = 1.57" (plus gasket) from the inside mounting surface to the center of the belt groove. Since the grooves are 0.560" wide, that means that the dimension from the inside mounting surface to the backside edge is 1.57 + (0.560/2) = 1.85", or a little over 1 7/8" when you include the gasket thickness. From the photo in your first post, we see that the pulley you have is less than that, so obviously it is not correct.
Thanks Joe, you provided the information I was looking for. With this info I'll be able to figure which component is out if alignment.
I'll take some measurements and report back.
July 3rd, 2019, 10:57 AM
