83lesabre

Hello All,

It's my first time posting on the forums but I've been reading around since I got my '83 Buick Lesabre with Olds 307 motor. It's got 152xxx miles on it and still runs pretty good! The car needed a tune up when I got it and so far I've done:

Flushed and refilled Radiator
Changed oil and filter
New canister filter, fuel filter, air filter and Pcv filter
New pcv valve
New smog pump air injection tubes
new distrubutor cap and rotor, new wires and new plugs

and the like i said, the engine isnt in too bad of shape. After reading around the forums I see that these engines usually need new timing chains before they hit 100xxx miles, considering myself very lucky and not wanting to push it anymore I've decided i will replace the chain before I have any run ins with problems. This is just to be safe rather then sorry, I know the original owner did not replace it. While I'm at it I will replace the water and fuel pumps as well since they are there. I have the repair manual and seen a few threads on here that give me an idea on what I'm in for.. I'm ordering the parts today and just have a few questions.

I just need to get the timing set and gasket correct? Are there any other parts i should buy? Any other advice on tackling the job are also appreciated, I'm beginning the work next weekend.

oldcutlass

It's not hard, I would also recommend replacing your water pum at the same time since it has to be removed! There are many, many, and I mean many threads on here about doing your timing chain.

Lady72nRob71

The worst part is getting to it! Take LOTS of pictures of before, during, and after. Watch for little spacers and such that might either fall out, or be stuck to something, waiting to run away. You might want to wash up the engine before you start, so gunk will not be falling everwhere and that you can find all the bolts...
Drain the block with the plugs on both sides of the block, in front of the motor mounts.
You will need to loosen the big crank bolt which will be on with gorilla torque. You might be able to use a breaker bar on it with one end on the ground and bump the starter to break it free.
Then you will need a pulley puller to pull the balancer. The big pulley unbolts from it.
Might was well clean everything up around there and repaint what is needed.
Don't forget new belts and hoses if they are over 5 years old or look damaged.
Get a new water pump, as the remans usually only last a month past their 1 year warranty. Airtex makes some decent fuel pumps....
Post some progress pictures, too!

joesw31

It always good to change the timing cover with a new one while in there. The timing cover always gives problems as they rot thru and leak coolant in the engine.

Redog

I suggest removing the Raditior and the A/C condenser (if it's empty) before doing the job. It will give you that much more room.

I also suggest the Summit double roller timing chain. I feel they are better than the stock single roller.

Be careful not to drop anything in the oil pan and you'll have to drop the front 6 bolts on the oil pan to get the timing cover back on

Red Delta

I've never dropped oil pan bolts to fit the cover back on. I have had much luck, just over doing the RTV a little. The first time I did one, I didn't have an air compressor to get the big bolt out of the balancer, so I borrowed an electric impact which worked just fine.

henryk8398

Don't forget a 1 1/8" 6 pt socket and breaker bar or impact gun to get the balancer bolt off. Take your time. I've got a tool I made out of 1/2" thick bar stock to keep the engine from turning. I'll take a picture and post it. Otherwise, it sounds like you've got this planned very well! Definitely do your water pump and fuel pump as planned! I've never heard of getting a new timing cover, but that makes sense to me!

83lesabre

Thanks for all the replies everyone! All my parts came today, on saturday I'll be buying some tools, ill need the w 1/8" socket, a breaker bar and a gear puller it looks like. Any suggestions on gear puller? A buddy of mine might have an impact wrench I can use so that would eliminate the need for the breaker bar for the balancer bolt, but ill still get one. Do I need to grease or oil up the chain and cam/crAnkshaft before I put them in? The repair manual has me a little intimidated, but I'm sure once I get started it'll start to make sense and ill be alright, that's usually how it works lol.

To be honest I'm most worried about getting the harmonic balacer bolt off and the crankshaft sprocket.

Redog

Get an Impact 1 1/8 6 point.

Get a pulley puller set or a jaw kit to pull the balancer and timing sprocket off. I put the big washer back in and used that for leverage to with the jaw type puller and to pull the sprocket I had to pry it out a bit, put the balancer bolt back in, by hand, for the leverage and use a very small 3 jaw to pull it off.

Those 3 jaws things are cool. You'll be spining the wrench and wathcing the balancer move

ah64pilot

Easy way to get the ballancer bolt is to get a 1 1/8" socket, 1/2" drive extension and a breaker bar. Rest the bar on the frame or ground, disconnect the coil wire, and bump the starter. It'll break the bolt loose and then you can remove it with a regular ratchet.

This is only if you can't get it loose with an impact.

83lesabre

Do I also need a harmonic balance remover tool?
http://m.sears.com/productdetails.do...r=00947626000P

Is this a good gear puller?

http://m.sears.com/productdetails.do...r=00960586000P

Okay gear puller, impact socket with 1 1/8 socket, possibly harmonic balance remover. Am I missing anything? Do I have to lube the chain and sprockets before installing them with any special grease or something?

Redog

You should be able to "rent" this stuff at your local auto parts store.

I say "rent" because you put the cost of the tool on your credit card and when you bring it back, you get refunded.

They should have a set of 3, "3 jaw puller" I used this on my balancer and for the timing gear, I had to use a very small one, but it worked

ah64pilot

If you use a jaw type puller on your balancer you run the risk of pulling the outer part of the balancer off of the inner part. You need to use a bolt on puller, also known as a harmonic balancer puller

Lady72nRob71

Good point - I was wondering about that!

83lesabre

A little update:

Thank you everyone so much for the replies, I got my tools yesterday and began work this morning. I have everything removed up to the timing cover. So far so good! Thanks to my buddys impact socket wrench I was able to remove the vibration dampner bolt with ease, as well as the rest of the harmonic balancer.

I had the most trouble with the water pump surprisingly, all those pullies and brackets bolted with 10 different sized bolts each to the pump made it a mAjor PITA to get off.. I managed to get it off and am finishing for the day. 7 hours worth of work today isn't too bad I'd say, I thought I'd be further along but as someone mentioned, it is hard getting to it and I'm taking my time.

Ill post progress pics and everything when I've got the cover off. Thanks again everyone!

Lady72nRob71

Good news so far! Yes, take your time and do it right. You will learn a lot in the process, as if you really want to repeat this again in your lifetime...

I found the simplest task (like removing the crank pulley from the balancer) was one of the most difficult!

ah64pilot

Good job! The more you do, the better you get, the less time it takes. You'll learn a lot the first couple of jobs you do. Glad you got it all off pretty easy, the fun part will be cleaning it up and putting it all back together

Destructor

Post a photo of your old chain, my 70 Cutlass is due for one at 79,800 miles.

cheven

I would have posted pics, but for some reason they fail? too big I guess (but small enough for Craigs list?) Anyway, The word "jaw" on balancer puller may be misleading, they are typically flat, the use of a jaw type would be difficult and increase the risk of balancer damage, the flat ones are cheap and worth having. Front covers from GM may be all gone, I just bought 2 of the last 3 so check before taking your car apart. also, they don't come with crank seals, you'll need one. And , check the balancer for a groove where the seal rides, if its deep enough to catch your nail on it, you'll need a "speedy sleeve" its a razor thin metal sleeve that you place over the balancer shaft not more than 10 bucks. I had stress while trying to get the front cover on without loosening the oilpan bolts and allowing it to give a little since the new lower cover to pan seal was big and fat, I also trimmed a bit off the ends and replaced it with silicone. Giving the motor a good bath (at least in front) is a good idea since when you have the cover off the oil pan is like a whales mouth and can swallow everything and anything so as SOON as you take that cover off, shove a nice CLEAN towel (one) into it so as you work it will collect all the crud and you can pull it out just before you're close her up. Oh, and I did have stress putting the balancer back on, luckily I had a 3/4 fine thread bolt long enough to thread into the crank and draw it in, DO NOT HIT the balancer on !!

83lesabre

well everyone the car is back in one peice, will post pics of old and new chain on just a quick question.

Turned the car on yesterday and had no problems until the water pump started leaking. I sealed the spot back up with some silicon so that's no problem. But i noticed a clicking noise coming from the front of the engine. Once I heard it I turned the car off. The idle was very smooth, and it started in one Key turn, so that was a relief. I am nervous about this sound though. I really would like to not have to take it apart all over again but I may have to. can anyone shed any light on this? is there anything you can think of that i screwed up?

MDchanic

Fuel pump arm rubbing on something?

- Eric

cheven

not crazy about the silicone in the leak fix (little boy with finger in the dike comes to mind, but if it worked, so be it) Mine ticked like crazy when I started it too ...I thought for sure something didn't jive, one thing i know I forgot was to lube up the fuel pump cam and arm (shame on me !) I got so excited it was going smooth I even said "got to throw some grease on that" but of course, I forgot. After I shut it down and let it sit for a few and re-started it, this tick went away. I can't say that was it, but it sound like a bad lifter tic. I can only guess maybe turning the motor back and forth (backwards and forwards) cause a weak lifter to bleed down? mine is happy now with only that cheap exhaust leak tick When I was done, I dusted off an old friend (my MAC timing light) and i was dead on 6 deg BTDC without ANY mark travel or erratic movement. Don't forget to remove an plug vac. advance when timing. I also found the port my advance was hooked to was plugged ? no vac. at all ! So now I even have working vacuum advance ! My car has 150K on it and I'm sure the chain was done once since it was all steel and the chain was a Morse, but they left the lower GM gear on and it was grooved up real bad, and the chain was a-flappin!

83lesabre

I did replace the fuel pump so that's a possibility, either way I had a feeling I was going to have to take it all apart again anyway. I guess things just went TOO well.. lol

cheven

since of course aftermarket can't make stuff like GM, the lower gear has a slot for the key all the way through, the GM one stopped part way. I noticed on mine when installing the key if you went too far it climbed at the part of the crank where the slot gets shallow, I don't think that could be causing your issue since you would have had trouble getting the balancer on .... did you have trouble getting anything on? another words, did you force anything? try the old long screwdriver on the ear trick and listen by the front cover and around the front seal and by the valve covers, narrowing the search will narrow the cause.

83lesabre

Believe me, I'm not crazy about the fix either. Turns out rockauto sent me the wrong water pump, so I did not get to replace that. Once I recieve my new one I will replace it and make sure it does not leak at all. I just want to make sure I can check it so the silicone is a quick fix. Your ticking just went away though you said? I did not lube up the oil pump arm either!



EDIT: I did not really have to force the harmonic balancer in either, with the tool that was pretty easy. As I said I was surprised that this project went by the book, that never happens for me lol

cheven

you mean fuel pump arm, but yes, my tic went away pretty quick, and I'm not even sure if that was the tic or not? but if yours is still ticking, its clear, there IS something wrong now to find it .....its better to know (or suspect what it is BEFORE diving in again so you're have an idea of what and where to look. Too many times I have gone over the same thing i just did, only to miss it because I was assuming it was correct. like i said, narrow the search by listening to where its coming from ? think about the frequency, is it tic, tic, tic tic, or tic....tic ....tic....tic, like one lifter would have more time between tics then say something hitting front cover of the motor. did you replace the front seal, is it too far? what about oil slinger?

380 Racer

Been a long time since I have worked on anything stock . Can't you just yank the fuel pump and look at the arm for marks? Also some timing chains are thicker than stock. Or maybe the bottom gear isn't as far back as it should be?