MikaelH

Hi.
I`m new to this forum, would need a little help.
Got a 350 sbo -70 in a hotrod -29 roadster.
It`s a mild build, bored to 362cui, large valves, stock 4-barrel intake, 1.7 rockers and a performer plus cam. The crossover has been blocked and I run a q-jet that is rebuilt.

I would need a new distributor, and I need some advice. I`m a swedish guy so sorry for my english.
Looking at summit for ex. There is a lot of pertronix dists, whats the difference between them?
Would it be a stupid idea to go with a mallory dual breaker, to keep it oldschool?

I have had failure twice on a mallory street billet, and have driven the stock one with points till now. I have some issues with backfiring thru the carb when I floor the pedal. Everything is checked up and seems ok, but under load it is not.

Does all the dists need to be recurved to suit my needs?

Sorry for all the text.
/Mikael

oldcutlass

Welcome, would love to see some pictures of your car. Since your car is more of a cruiser and very light. I would go for just a plain old single point distributor. If your thinking about a Mallory, I'd use a Unilite. On the Pertronix, probably an Ignitor I or II would be sufficient.


What are your dwell and timing settings for the one you have now.

MikaelH

Thanks.
Dwell is set at 30, and timing at 11 without vac connected.
Have been troubleshooting in all my sparetime for a week now, everything seems ok.
Just to try something new. I would like a new dist. But not being that great at english... a jungle of dists is out there, and I want a good one
/Mikael

oldcutlass

Your car is awesome, very old school. Like I said, look at the Mallory Unilite. Very easy to setup with an old school look.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ma...ake/oldsmobile

MikaelH

Thanks, will have a look at that one.
/Mikael

MikaelH

I like the looks of the unilite, and seems to be what I need.
If I get things right, that would work with an msd 6a ignition box?
If so, what coil and sparkplug wires would work with that setup?
Want to get everything new, with a really good spark and parts that works together.
Then I know thats not a problem, really sick of troubleshooting now.
/Mikael

olds 307 and 403

What coil are using with the street billet? I am assuming it is the magnetic breaker less distributor. You need a coil with 1400 ohm primary resistance or a ballast resistor wired in. The Accel Super Stock points replacement, Mallory 29219, 29450 or 30450. Otherwise you melt the coil and module quickly. Ask me how I know.

billmerbach

If I'm not mistaken the bigger the wires the better especially with your build. Also look at msd or Mallory wires me personally if you go with Mallory dist use Mallory wires just my 2 cents

MikaelH

Thanks for the answer.
Was a few years ago that I ran the street billet, probably I had the wrong coil, cannott remember. But I know I had a few different. And as always..I thought I did right
/Mikael

HWYSTR455

Couple things to point out, first, basically, to get the old school look, all you really need is a small cap type distributor.

Next, there are several different types of pickups, points, magnetic, and optical are the general ones (hall is a variation of optical). Out of those, the magnetic pickups are the most durable and easily replaced.

Another nice thing about the magnetic pickup distributors is that they can take a direct 12v power source, no resistor required.

With that in mind, small cap & magnetic pickup, with vacuum advance, that leaves you with roughly two main-stream choices, the Accel 52103 breakerless, and the MSD Ready to Run 8525. The Accel is about half the cost of the MSD.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-ACCEL-52...05b44f&vxp=mtr

They make several different color caps too, you can get one that you prefer, like red, tan, or black.

To finish the old school look, you can do either black or yellow wires, maybe even red. (I think yellow considering your car, but personal preference)

Yellow wires, the Accel wires scream old school like nothing else, they are one of the original aftermarket plug wires. The 8.8 spiral wires are top notch, just makes it a little difficult to get separators for them because of the size. If you can handle that, cool, if not, don't go below the 5000 series wires, since any below those aren't very good.

Black wires, the MSD #31183 Super Conductor wires are the hot ticket, they last, and have multi-angle boots.

You will need a coil too, as others have stated. E-Core type are solid state and last a long time. The one Summit coil is black, compact, and inexpensive:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-850500/overview/

If you want an oil filled coil to stay with the old school look, the Accel 8145C is a great coil, and you can peel the sticker off to make it look generic:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acc-8145c/overview/

Now, backfire through the carb when you floor it, that sounds like it's going lean, and you need to look at your carb to make sure it's getting a proper accelerator pump shot. All too often, the rebuild pump diaphrams can't take today's fuel and deteriorate, check it. You can open the butterfly and work the throttle to see if it's getting a squirt of gas. If not, you found your problem.

Hope this was somewhat helpful! And love your ride!

.

MikaelH

Thanks for your input HWYSTR455.
I did go for the unilite tho, was actually looking for magnetic picup dists.
Just for the reason you said, but didnt like the look of the msd, and since I had bad luck with an accel I wanted something else.
Maybe bad decition, but will see how it works. Have read many with good luck with the unilite...and many with bad luck.

Also ordered a msd 6a, so will run thru that.
Then I should know that I have spark enough, and at somewhat right time.

Have looked at the carb also, the acc pump works fine.
Its rebuilt by an q-jet expert, and set up for my specs.
Also tried a new holley 600dp that I have, same problem.
Therefore I am back at the ignition.

The parts went with dhl to sweden, and got on hold 2 hours from me, probably due to the holiday.

But have other projects to work with, so thats fine

/Mikael

MikaelH

Hi.
Finally got the parts and installed it today, but did not help.
At least I know that the spark is good enough now .
Still backfires thru the carb at w.o.t. Checked the cam timing, cam card says at .050 lift intake opens 4 degrees atdc and closes 28 degrees abdc.
As I have it opens at 6 and closes at 30, would that be 2 degrees retarded?
Will pull the cam out tomorrow to check the lobes, all rockers are moving, but I want to really check the lobes, since I am running out of ideas.

I have good cranking pressure on all cylinders.
Leakdowntest shows the valves are not leaking.
Manifold vac is good at idle.
Timing set at 10 degrees and 36 max without vac connected.
2 different carbs tested, with float level correct.

Anyone have a clue?
If a cam lobe would be worn down, how much do they usually wear down?

Will take a cold beer right now, I feel tired
/Mikael

oldcutlass

There are 2 reasons to get popping out the carb. 1 is a lean condition and 2 is timing. Lean condition is when the fuel fires to fast and the intake valve is open. Timing is when it fires with the intake valve open. Your cam may be installed wrong.

MikaelH

Have been wrenching all day, cam is fine with no wear, and installed within 2 crankshaft degrees right. Have no adjustable cam timing. But that would do.
I did replace 2 lifters that seemed to not hold oilpressure. Maybe they were ok..but I replaced them anyway.
Was no time to get finished tonight, so will see how it works when its together again.
/Mikael

HWYSTR455

I still feel it's a lean condition with the carb.

I just did a start up of a fresh rebuilt engine this weekend, has a brand new Holley carb, and I left it with out of the box jetting just for start up. Same issue, crack the throttle quick and a slight pop through the carb. It has 70 primaries, and when I took it apart before I installed it I knew that it would be lean. I'm guessing it needs like 74s on the primaries.

Try richening your carb up.

.

MikaelH

Got it running again, and went to a local carmeet today.
It runs better now, sounds better, but still not great.
It bogs when wot, and I think your right that its the carb. I have had my q-jet rebuilt and set up for my engine for an quite amount of money, and I really dont wanna mess with that anymore.

I have a new holley 600dp and an adapter, thats been laying in the garage a couple of years. Im thinkin of using that and get a new converter with higher stall.
What do the experts here say about that?

/Mikael

HWYSTR455

Yeah, I say take a shot at the 600DP, see how it does compared to what you're using. In my opinion, Holley's are a little easier to tune, but that's a personal preference. Just keep stepping up on jet sizes etc until you get where you need to be. As light as that thing is, it shouldn't take too much work. Just make sure you have the proper adapter and gaskets for mating to the intake.

I say try starting with 72 on the primary, 74 or so on the secondary, with a 65 power valve, see where you are then.

As for a converter, I say fix one thing at a time, then go from there. Stall can't hurt with a small block, in general, will say that. You may not need it though, since it is light. And once you get a good tune on it, you will make more power, and it will probably stall different than it is now.

.

HWYSTR455

Here's a website that lists out of the box settings for double pumpers by list number, can look up what yours came with and start there if you want:

http://www.allcarbs.com/tech.php?art=21

I'm guessing you will need it richer than what it came with out of the box, that's been my experience with SBO 350s.

.

MikaelH

Thanks alot.
Will look at the carb tomorrow.
About the converter, I have never liked the low rpm stall that I do have.
With a car this light, makes I have to brake quite hard in drive to stand still, just feels odd.
Drove a friends ac-cobra replica today wiyh a 2100rpm converter, that felt great.

Would like to get a shift kit for the th350 too.

I know your right about one change at a time, but the shipping rates to sweden makes me wanna take 4 steps at a time.

MikaelH

Tried out the Holley DP today, feels lean on the primary just like you thaught.
The nr is 4776-7 and 1786
Primary jets are 66 and power valve is 6.5, havent looked at the secondary yet.
Will get some jets and start with 72 on the primary.
/Mikael

tmaleck

I fought my Holley for almost a year. If you are trying to solve a bog on initial hard acceleration (WOT), jets are not the likely problem. The first issue is throttle plate position at warm idle. The accelerator pump linkage, cam and discharge nozzles are second. Check YouTube for 'Holley bog' or similar terms. I am working on a report of what fixed my issues, but it is a lot more than I can type on a virtual tablet keyboard.

The short answer is set the idle speed screw so the fuel transfer slot is correctly exposed. Lots of good info on the web about this.

Adjust idle mixture screws for highest vacuum/idle. Reset idle speed screw if needed, not going past recommended transfer slot exposure.

Confirm plastic accelerator pump cam on throttle plate is contacting the accelerator pump linkage arm. There should be zero clearance between the cam and linkage arm with the throttle at warm idle.

If all the above is correct, try increasing the pump discharge nozzle size. I went from a 31 to a 37.

David Vizard has a book on tuning Holly carbs that was very helpful.

Tim

MikaelH

Thanks.
Will work with that in mind.
/Mikael

MikaelH

Hi.
Thought I would write about whats happening.
Got a new converter 2000-2200rpm and a shiftkit in. That made a big difference, as in BIG. Have been swapping some jets and have 69 in the primary right now.
It hesitates a little when wot at low speed, but then it pulls really good..burning the tires easily. Very fun to drive right now .

Will look at the acc punp settings next, but got another question first.
I found out that the airfilter is a bit collapsed, and my homemade aircleaner with a 14x3 filter in, has not got much room for the air around the filter.

So need to get another aircleaner before I continue jetting.
How big filter Should I need to be sure thats not a limiting factor?

/Mikael

HWYSTR455

Ok, back to basics, what's your idle vacuum? Cut that in half and put that power valve in it, sounds like the one you have is opening too late.

For example, if you have 15" of vacuum, run a 75 power valve, which opens at 7.5" of vacuum. Most Holleys come with a 6.5, and generally they open too late for most engines. You might even find you need to lean the primaries out a touch after you bump up the power valve, play with it.

Air cleaner. It's hard to beat the performance of a 14" round 3" or so tall air filter setup. That would be where I would start, like a K&N, Holley reusable, or similar.

Once you have it running right, you can shop for something more retro, maybe something that has matching valve covers, like the old Edelbrock finned ones of vintage Offenhouser or something.

.

MikaelH

Ok, thanks.
I will read of the vac at idle.
Will look for another aircleaner, hard to make a big one look retro tho, but I`ll figure something out. Can always put the hood on.
Would love some offy valvecovers, but they are quite pricey.
/Mikael

HWYSTR455

That Edelbrock one I posted a pic of looks good, there's matching valve covers, it's a thought. Yeah, the Offy's are like $250 US new, might be able to find some used if you wait for them.

The typical big chrome rounds ones don't look too bad, and they work. Would only be temporary until you get it running right or find something better.

.

oldcutlass

On the air cleaner, I'd just google hot rod or roadster air cleaners to give you some ideas. Just by a new air filter for yours until you find what you like.


Glad it's coming together.

HWYSTR455

Oh wow, that works! Saw a ton, great suggestion! No foam element ones though please!

My concern was if the one he has is collapsed or restricting then it could throw off the tune. Or make it tougher to tune.

I've seen where folks use drop base ones meant for a taller element, and the lid gets so close to the vent tubes that it starts sucking fuel out of the vents.

.

MikaelH

Yes I dont think I should replace filter in the one I have, maybe with some mods.
Easiest would be just a round crome, to get things right.
I wanna thank you for all help on this forum, I have come a long way since this tgread started. It will be super when all bugs are sorted out.

My aircleaner looks like this, too little room around the filter. And after too many on and offs since I built this car. I have tvisted the top too hard on the filter.
Maybe I put some louvers all around it later.

Sorry for crappy pic.
/Mikael

oldcutlass

I like the batwing style air cleaners. Maybe straighten it out and add some reinforcement to keep it from crushing.

MikaelH

My bad, meant that I have damaged the filter. The top is ok, just need more air around the filter.

oldcutlass

You'll figure something out. Post some more pictures of your car.

johnnyjaws

get rid of the points and put in the petronix electronic ignition replaces the points not that much money as a new dizzy

MikaelH

Dont have that many good pics. But one more from a magazine shoot.
/Mikael

RetroRanger

Your car looks nice mikael!! Is that the only way the 2002 could keep up w it? Take the front tires off LOL

oldcutlass

That is a sweet car!

MikaelH

Haha, yes I guess so. The 2002 runs pretty strong tho, its built like a group2 car in the 70s....but nothing beat cubik inches, and 2liters is like a starter
/Mikael

MikaelH

So I read intake vac. at idle with gearbox in D. It is 18".
Should I replace my 6.5 powervalve to 8.5 then? Guess I should, but seems to be high vac.
/Mikael

oldcutlass

Yes, and that's very good vacuum.

HWYSTR455

Yup, 8.5, see how it runs, sure it will make a big difference. Depending on your compression, you might even go to a 95. (9.5).

If it was that lean, you may have had tip-in and light throttle ping even. Might be able to advance your timing some after you swap it, or make it come in a little faster.

.