rcdynamic88

The topic of the 45 degree/39 degree cam bank angle differences have been talked about many times on this Forum and I think I have been bit by the issue. I have(had) a smooth running 1965 Olds 330 in my 65 Cutlass. It was so smooth that it bored me. I contacted our own cutlass.efi (Mark) to see what cam he could get for me that would give my SBO a little attitude/thump. He set me up with a Sig Erson "Viking 100" grind cam along with some valve springs and lifters.

Mark knew I was dealing with a 330, I talked to him on the phone (real nice guy and very helpful) and we both knew what I had to work with. So I beleive he TOLD his supplier what he wanted, however I don't think the cam grinder followed through as he was supposed to. I think the shop sent me a 39 degree cam.

This past weekend I was finally ready for start up after getting everything back together and all detailed out the way I wanted it. I was using my carb, distributor ,etc. that ran fine previously so I had no worries about a number of new untested parts in the mix. I could get the motor to start only if I gave it a LOT of throttle. I wanted to get it up to the required 2000 RPM for 20 minutes. I stuggled to get it there and it was so rough and noisy that I gave up on it after only two or three minutes of listening to it. It will not idle at all, timing changes don't seem to have any effect at smoothing it out.

I found a webpage that pretty much describes the whole situation:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/14434...age/1081347491


Notice these couple of lines in the information:

"The engine is not going to run right with the wrong CBA cam, no matter what you do. Indexing it to one bank would only make the other bank worse. Adjust the timing won't work either. The motor will run very badly and loudly at idle, but it will run."

Thats the way mine is/was running. I have pulled the motor back out of the car now and contacted Mark to see what he thinks. I suppose I screwed something up internally by doing this. I was thinking of sticking the stock cam back in and trying again, but that is disappointing to say the least. As sad as this sounds, I hope I am right about the cam being incorrect and that just a change to the Erson cam with the 45 degree CBA will fix everything. Its disappointing for sure. I will need new timing cover and oil pan gaskets, and I suppose another set of lifters since I beleive I need a new cam. Man, I had everything looking so nice and was going to post pictures once it was running. Now its out of the car and everything is a mess.

I hope to hear from Mark soon and see what he thinks about this. Once again, I'll bet he did send my order in as a 45 degree, but I beleive the shop slipped up because its not a cam profile they do very many of.

cutlassefi

I got your email as well but figured I'd answer it here.
Yes you could have gotten an incorrect cam, and if so it'll be corrected for free with new lifters no problem.
But you need to check a couple things first. What timing set did you use? Did you degree it? Can you do that on #1 and #6 cyl? That will tell you immediately if that's the problem.
Also you may want to double check the ignition timing. The best way is to use a tdc stop and verify the balancer and tab.

Let me know what you come up with. We'll get it sorted out.

Thanks.

rcdynamic88

I got the motor on the stand today and tore it down so I could look into this furthur. It really didn't take very long to find the mistake was made by ME...I stared by looking at the alignment of the marks on the crank sprocket in relation to the cam sprocket. The timing gear set I used could be installed in three different positions, 0, +4, or -4. The 0 position uses an "O" as the mark to align to, +4 has a "triangle", and -4 has a "square". These marks are located right above the appropiate keyway slot on the crank sprocket. These marks are only there to show you what keyway is chosen, they are not the marks that you align with the cam sprocket. There are a second set of marks ("O", "Triangle", and "Square" out near the tip of the teeth on the sprocket that you line up with the "Dot" on the cam sprocket. I had lined up the cam sprocket "Dot" with the actual "0" mark above the keyway slot, NOT the "O" mark on the sprocket tooth. That resulted in the the cam being three teeth off from where it was supoosed to be!

I moved the alignment to the correct spot be and feel pretty confident I have found the problem. I'm going to put a new set of lifters in it, get it back together and give it another try. I didn't find anything in the oil pan other than nice clean break in oil at $9.50 a Qt. I'm hopeful that I didn't hurt the camshaft in the extremely short period of time I tried to run the car.

Its hard sometimes to find and admit your own mistakes. I don't suppose anyone else has done this, but I did, and if telling what I did wrong helps someone else, that's a good thing.

costpenn

I made this exact same mistake using a Melling Select timing set. Congratulations on finding it. I finally found the problem by doing the CSM test checking the pushrod travel difference at two different crankshaft rotation points.

edzolz

Same thing here. My brother bought an 81 Vette from a shade tree that would not run right or idle. Gave a very cheap price for it. I tore into the engine and discovered the same problem. The shade tree had installed the crank gear wrong. I straightened it up, buttoned the engine back up and it ran great. He sold it for a tidy profit.

70cutty

That's great that you found the problem. I doubt that you hurt the cam in that short period.

Mark is a stand up guy who would make things right, if the mistake was on his side.

rcdynamic88

Yes you are right, Mark IS a stand up guy. I had no doubt what-so-ever that if the shop had made a mistake, he would make it right. He was the one that told me to check my timing chain as the first thing to look at! He was ready to send a new cam and lifter set at no cost if it the cam was wrong. Sure makes this hobby more enjoyable when you find a guy like that.

rcdynamic88

Costpenn & Edzolz

It feels a little better hearing that I am not the only one...