If this is a dumb question, I apologize...

From what I've read on this site, BBO aluminum heads can be used on a SBO. If a small block was to be upgraded with Edelbrock heads, would the existing small block headers have to be replaced with BBO headers or exhaust manifolds?

Just curious...

 

No, deck height remains the same.

 

Thanks, kinda what I thought, but wasn't sure.

 

Trip, are you sure about that? I had to change my headers when I did this swap. Then again when I went to the BB. Have you done this swap and can be certain? I could have sworn we had to get different headers. I agree the deck height remains the same but the angle of the new heads are different than the old heads. Am I wrong here?

 

x2

 

X3.

The exhaust flange and bolt spacing is the same on ALL Olds heads, so BBO and SBO manifolds and headers bolt to ALL heads. The deck height of the block (and thus the height of the exhaust flange relative to everything else) is what causes BBO and SBO headers and manifolds to be different.

 

Forget it, I was going to question you guys, but I'm not going to.

 

What is the issue? You stated you went from SBO to BBO, which, as others stated, is different due to the engine being taller and wider. Now, maybe from a performance standpoint going to larger tubes may have been suggested, but like Joe state4d, the flanges and spacing are all the same.

 

z11375ss, you went from a SBO to a BBO. So yes the deck height did increase in your case and you would have needed different headers. Yes I have done this swap in a 70 Cutlass, 350 to 455. BBO headers fit that swap.

This is not the question that was asked though.
"If a small block was to be upgraded with Edelbrock heads, would the existing small block headers have to be replaced with BBO headers or exhaust manifolds?"

 

Well, here is the question then. Have any of you guys done the E head swap onto a small block? I did. Did your small block headers fit? Mine did not, even though I was putting another Oldsmobile flanged head on the motor it was completely different. I stated I had to change the headers again when I went to the BB. Expected. I thought that was the OP's question. Now I'm in a pissing match. Great.

 

A debate does NOT have to be a pissing match, it can be a great way to learn. When you did the swap, what did not fit? Ports lining up? Hitting something?

 

Well, no, I have technically not put E heads on an SBO and test fitted headers before and after... but, having examined in fairly good detail many Olds heads, I feel certain that any factory iron head from #1 thru #8 and A thru K will situate the exhaust flange surface- the main thing that locates the header- in the exact same location. Give or take a couple thousandths of an inch for manufacturing tolerances.

I admit that your experience may vary, though. Did you really change NOTHING but the heads? None of the heads were cut or modified significantly? I have seen headers fail to fit the 1967 Cutlass SBO but fit just fine in the 1968-72 chassis.

 

Please explain "did not fit". As Jim asked, was it the flange, or header fitment in the chassis. I have not put BBO heads on an SBO, because, frankly, I only build BBOs (), but I AM able to use a ruler and I DO know geometry. EVERY SINGLE OLDS V8 head from 1964-1990 has the exhaust flange bolts in EXACTLY the same place relative to the deck surface. You don't have to believe me, just use a ruler. Even the doorstop 7A heads have the same bolt pattern in exactly the same orientation relative to the deck surface. The ports are significantly smaller, but you can bolt BBO headers and manifolds to them. They won't seal, by the way, but they will bolt up.

Feel free to post hard evidence to the contrary, like a photo of a BBO and SBO head next to each other. In my experience, anecdotal "evidence" is often wrong. Memory gets fuzzy and eyewitnesses are among the least reliable methods of "proof".

Edit: Just so we're completely clear, the above applies to FACTORY heads only. E-brock has said that their exhaust ports are in the same place as stock, but other aftermarket heads (Batten, Bulldog, etc) usually have raised exhaust ports and thus a different exhaust flange location.

 

Olds heads are all the same, agreed. Let's move on to the real question. The E head the OP is talking about does not accept the small block olds header when swapped onto a small block and will need to be changed. Please reread the OP and look to see what he was asking. If you change an olds head to an olds head the header is exactly the same (except SB to BB). This I agree with 100%. However, if you upgrade to Edelbrock aluminum heads on a small block olds your headers you were using on your original motor will not work. They will not clear the block as the angle of the head forces them into the block. The heads accept only the intake manifold made for that application as well. Don't try this at home. It is expensive and the power gains are not worth the price. Go BB right away. Welcome to the pissing contest.

 

Sorry, but I can't follow your logic. Your very first sentence is correct. All Olds heads are the same. How then is an E head on an SBO any different than a #5 head on an SBO from a header or manifold fitment. Use an SBO header or manifold and it bolts right up to the E head. The manifold/header neither knows nor cares that this is an E head. It only knows that the bolt holes are in exactly the same place AND THE FLANGE IS AT THE SAME 90 DEGREE ANGLE.

Now, as we've said many times here before, the Edelbrock heads ALSO have the same 90 degree angle between the exhaust flange and the deck surface as any factory Olds heads, and also have exactly the same dimension from the exhaust bolts to the deck. This is the self-imposed restriction that limits the flow in the E-brock exhaust ports. Put E-brock heads on an SBO and ANY SBO manifold or header bolts right up. Others here have done this.

By the way, you still haven't told us what specific problems you had previously.

Bottom line is ANY factory head, any E-brock head, or any ProComp (Edelbrock clone) head has the exact same intake and exhaust flanges in exactly the same place. Yes, the ports may be different sizes, but the manifolds bolt up. If a given set of manifolds or headers cleared before with SBO heads on an SBO, and the heads are replaced with either BBO heads or E-brock heads, the same manifolds or headers will bolt up and clear again. And as before, please feel free to post hard (as in photographic) evidence to the contrary.

 

^^^^x2^^^^

 

Ok MFers, here you go. You have to clearance the fuel pump on Edelbrock heads to the tune of about an inch leading to cutting into a water jacket. What fun! Edelbrock heads hang over the cylinder block by a half an inch as you can see in the pic. Have either of you guys run Edelbrock heads on a small block Olds? I have. The headers don't fit. Period. With what you see in the pic, can you believe there might be a fitment issue as I described with the headers? Once again, have either of you ever ran Edelbrock heads on a small block Olds? The headers that were on the car with the stock heads did not fit with the Edelbrock heads. After much trial and error I think we got a pair of Hookers to work. On the car that is. There, I just peed further than you. Your turn. And don't come back with any hypotheticals or what should be's. I want to know if you have run Edelbrock heads on a small block. If you haven't, you haven't lived. In hell.

 

What's with the friggin attitude? Why call us M***********s? We all know there are fuel pump issues with E-brock heads on a SBO. Personally, I see no evidence of header issues in your picture. **************************************

 

It was a joke. ******************************** Have you ever run Edelbrock heads on a small block olds? **************************

 

I should have stayed here. Now do you understand why I said, "I was going to question you guys, but I'm not going to."

 

Nice. Where are the moderators now? ************************************

 

I fail to see what fuel pump interference on the Ebrock head has to do with exhaust manifold or header fitment. Two totally different situations......Are you implying that because the fuel pump has insuficient clearance, that the header/manifold also has the same problem?

 

Wow, I don't know what to say...

This is the 2nd time I asked a question that turned into a verbal brawl.

It seems there are some raw nerves here... I'm gonna step away from this mess.

 

If you haven't put Edelbrock heads on a small block Olds you don't know what you're talking about. *****************************

 

As Joe P said, all heads are the same when it comes to headers bolting up or not.

Yes the head needs to be clearance at the very least when using virtually any aftermarket head with a mechanical pump on sbo.

 

I'm only going from experience. That's all. My headers didn't work after the switch. I had to find a set that did. I think they were Hooker. Think expensive. The fuel pump was the only pic I had that represented the fitment issues I had with running these heads on a sb. They are now on a BB and have no fitment issues whatsoever.

 

While I agree 100% they line up and bolt on, the sb headers I had did not clear the motor on one side and the frame on the other. I even called the guy who helped me to make sure I wasn't going crazy. So yes, they bolt to the motor, the pattern is the same no matter what, but do they fit in the car?

 

You called me *****************. That's not rude or less than civil? Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

 

pop corn peanuts cold beer

 

I have never put a set of Edelbrocks on a SB but know a couple guys that have with no header problems. It's the damn deck heigths that cause the problems. Most usually a BB header will not fit a SB (curves in towards the block too fast. You should not have called Jim any names, he was trying to help. Oh and by the way I have Rocket Racing heads (which are BBs) on my 350 block and use SB headers (had 2 different brands)......BB wont work.

 

Thank god I'm not the only one who goes through this. Same 3 people all the time. Funny how history repeats it's self.

 

Hey Copper! How ya been? Yeah, I'm pretty much done here. Tried to bow out only to get sucked into a pissing contest I called would happen.

 

Yeah, we ended up using a sb header. Just not the ones that were on the car. And Jim was NOT trying to help. The only thing he added was that he didn't like me. *******************************

 

you see when I do things a certain way that most "professionals" wouldn't I get crap after actually beating the crap out of it for almost 2 years it then fails but fast forward then a members build failed and everyone is quick to help. I think people hate the fact I do kind of get away with doing things the way I do. I guess people cant accept the fact people have different experiences or ways of doing things. When my build comes up all I get is it failed ! Yet it ran great e.t.'s and lasted much longer than many others builds. Im saying this because now it's not only me but other members going through this. This is not the 3 stooges show people come here to get different opinions not just 3.

 

hahahahahahah jim I just saw that. You are sad my friend. Come to think about it I think I have the headers z tried to make fit. not sure on that. Jim it's a waste of time because your my way or the higway attitude does not work when people want many peoples input. You are not god gift to this forum so get off your high horse and respect the fact people wont do as you say.

 

Oh boo focking whoo.........you ask for it.

 

I like being an underdog it pushes me to prove people wrong and I have and I like to rub in their face . Im not complaining but I don't like getting crap when I put my 2 cents in. Anyone can express how they feel but when I share my experiences and then they get put down that's bs. because usually I share my experiences not just what I hear. I don't care if you or jim or mark hate me however I do enjoy the fact I have proven many people wrong and have done what many people wish they could ., which should get me some credit because maybe im doing something right. I get crap because I don't do as the "professionals" would but I actually get results. It seems a few people are really showing their colors which is what I have been after for long time. Thanks guys. now everyone can see that whenever I post the same people give me crap just because they don't like me. Which is why I don't back down because I wont be walked all over. I said this a million times the same 3 people give me crap no one else. Nuff said

I might add I don't rub it in on those who have helped me out and given me parts and good deals they help me to keep me doing what I do how I have to. "z" has helped me out and I cant thank him enough along with many other members. I like to share as much as possible my ventures to dis prove that this hobby cant be done on a budget. I don't do it on a budget because it's fun but because it's what I have to do if I want to. People don't understand that and think I do it just because I have money to blow or im an idiot. It's the opposite I think in the last 5 months I might have spent 300 on car stuff for the cutlass. I say this because I don't want people to get the wrong impression about me or think im taking advantage of people. Im happy to take hand outs and making do. Im just here to give the guys on a budget an alternative based on my experience.

 

Dammit guys! I'm pissing as hard as I can! Come on, really? Let's all take a breath. I'll be the first to apologize.

 

Come to think of it, I don't know why it wouldn't fit. It just didn't. It fit the stock head just fine. Then I had to mess with it to try and make it faster, cooler. Now it has a BB. Should've done that to begin with. We all shouldn't take ourselves too seriously, it ain't good for our health and happiness. Most of the time I am messing around. Sometimes that just doesn't translate to the internet.

 

You called me a stooge and then you make this statement.......I ROTFLMAO.
So go ahead and show me this amazing proof about me. You think you are doing something amazing, well I did basically the same shyt when I first started. I was also buying a newer house, had a daughter, no garage. I never had anybody around here I could get info from, no internet and was out in the boonies of Iowa. I had to learn everything the hard way. Only had a Mondello tech manual to learn from. Try doing that. Oh ya and I never mooched or leached parts, I had to earn and pay for every part I got. Try doing that. Me? I'm going back to LMAO.