Good Afternoon,

I am starting a new thread to tidy up some questions I have about finishing my build. A thread I had previously was torn up in a sea of theory and debate. The purpose of this thread is to be Concrete as I am not turning back on cam, carb, intake etc. What is done is done. This is my first build and I am looking to gain insight from those who have done it before so I can not fall into surprise traps and learn.

To summerize:

83 H/O

Motor: 1970 block .030 over. Stock #6 heads (CC'd @ 66), springs, retainers, rocker arms replaced. Pistons are Probe -3 cc forged pistons (currently on 6 week back order and counting), awaiting final measurement for rings, stock nodular crank (being cut/balanced before final assembly), performer RPM intake, comp xe 268 cam, quick fuel 750 slayer carb, griffin radiator, hayden 2747 clutch, new 850 CCA battery/alternator/Bosch starter, H.E.I distributor.

Transmission- 2004r oz w/shift kit, 20k miles.

Rear- Eaton 3:73 with stock stall (2400) 15k miles

Exhaust- hedman headers- x pipe- 40 series flow masters 2.25in system (1 year old)

I am not equipped to do the swap myself and I am extremely picky about how I want things done. The local (and accredited ) speed shop quoted by 800 for install/tune (minus fluids/belts). My plan is to drive it over with the parts in the trunk new in box, have the motor dropped off and pick up a turn key machine.

-What are some things that I should prepare for that I may have overlooked?
- Does 800 sound reasonable (it does to me but I'm a novice)
-Are there some messages I should pass along before fina assembly of the motor **that weren't covered in the previous thread titled "cam advice needed"

Any help is welcomed and I am grateful for the knowledge. I would ask that this please stay constructive because I am really trying to learn. if you think I am a fool for something I've already done just PM me and I'll explain myself.

Thank you

 

To assemble an engine and install it for $800.00 sounds like a good deal to me. Depends on shop rate.

$85.00/hour would be 9.4 hrs.
$65.00/hour would be 12.3 hrs.

As a typical consumer, I would expect the final bill to be a little higher.

Good luck Adam.

 

Thank you,

Another issue/question for the group (and I know this subject is a tire fire).

The belts squeal during mid-mid/high RPMS (let me explain, please).
1-The car was in a front end wreck in 2006. I had it put together by a body shop and they did a few small mechanical things on the list, one of which was PS pulley/pump. The PS pulley/pump is 2 years old. I have tried thin belts, thick belts, multiple brands of belts, clean pulleys, wd-40, soap, I've tightened the belts so hard that they have BROKEN under acceleration, I've tried loose belts, I've tried 3 alternators, new water pump, new batteries, different sized alternator pulleys. N-O-T-H-I-N-G will stop the squeal. I'm thinking that the pump/pulley is **** or the geomertry is off. I've tried to fix it and it has been to TWO different professionals and every time you start it. Squeal. 3k+= squeal and it drives me insane. here are some more questions.

-Is it possible the brackets were bent just enough during the collision years ago that the geometry is off thus giving me the squeal?
-Can somebody recommend a new pulley/pump set up for my 70' 350?
-Does anyone have brackets available for sale? ( I want A/C in the car eventually)

I am all ears to everyone but I can promise you it's not the tightening of the belt procedures, I'd wager the title on that.

Thanks as always,

 

Also, I will happily take pictures or make a video of the engine bay for diagnostics

 

I could suggests do what you already have done, like clean them. Solvent, scotch brite should do the trick. Obviously, you've done that. Stay away from soap and wd-40 in the future. Any trace will lead to futility.

This is what I would do. Drop everything related with the 307 in the corner. Including the belts you've already tried. You burn or melt them later at your convenience so they'll never bother you again.

Obtain everything related to the 70 350 and use those components and parts. Follow the manual for use in every spacer, pulley, bracket and water pump. New belts...of course.

 

I am a tad confused, can you clarify a couple of things? Are you having one shop build and assemble the engine and another install it? $800 is waaaay too cheap to have an engine assembled, installed, broken in, and tuned.

You currently do not have the pistons, correct? So how can the block machine work be complete?

Also, not sure what those cam specs are, but if it goes along with the rest of the build (pretty nice street engine) you might want to bump up the converter while everything is apart. Just a thought.

 

Again, need clarification. Are you running 307 brackets and pulleys but no a/c? If so, this is a VERY common issue. With both the alt and p/s on the drivers side, there is no counter to the side tension. What you need is the brackets off of a non-a/c equipped 350, which had the alt on the right side to offset. Or, just go ahead and add the a/c, which you plan to do.

 

-The $800 is the price to drop the H/O off along with the built motor and come back to a turn key machine.
-The pistons are not here (sore subject Probe is has had my money for 2 months and can't give me a straight answer on time) The block has been sitting in the machine shop. The block work is included in the price tag of the build (ANY machine work from here on out is paid for)
-Cam is comp xe 268 @.050 224/230 lift .485/.490 110LSA

 

With regards to the belts, I had the same problem captjim mentioned on my 76, My a/c gave me a problem last summer so I removed the unit along with the belt. I could not keep my power steering belt from squealing afterwards on start up and full throttle.
I have since fixed my ac issues put the belt back on and now no more noise.
I hope your engine meets and exceeds your expectations. I think $800.00 is a great price.

 

Good, that sounds about right. While you are waiting, think about upgrading the converter to 2800 +/-, Jim

 

Well that sucks on the pistons. Just get either the Diamond pistons from Dick Miller or Speed Pro's if they don't give you a firm date. I believe the D5 is very optimistic to stall at 2400 rpm. Dan Mascal or Dr Dan swears by the10" PTC converter for the 2004R. I guess you tell them you want the Dr Dan converter. Supposedly a great converter for $450, worth a tenth in the 1/4 . Dan builds these trans for big power and is a good tuner and racer.

 

It does suck. ADP basically told me they don't want to be in the middle of a frustrated customer and a non-cooperative manufacture. I spoke with Mark about custom pistons but after consideration I'm going with the speed pros 5.8cc.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sl...7k30/overview/

These are the recommended rings by summit.
I read in Bill Trovato's book that customer rings can be made for "inferior" piston designs. Total seal is the listed manufacture. I need some clarity on that. The way I read that is rings can be made to fit the 5/64 grooves but are designed to create less friction at the point of contact to the cylinder wall? Anyone have any experience with this? After all the research and learning the idea of going to the dinosaur ring pack is making me sour so I am looking for solutions.

Also- to confirm. These pistons http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sl...ake/oldsmobile

are calling for less skirt-to-wall clearance than I've been advised here to accept. Olds307, I remember in a previous thread that you had been clear about .005 skirt-to-wall, correct?

In regards to the stall- I've read that for a mild motor build (350hp ) that 2,200-2,400 is the reasonable figure. Just doing my due diligence but will I really feel the difference of a 2,800 stall? Again, first build but I've been very meticulous about choosing parts that will create a proper synergy. I'm on a budget (that I am getting VERY close to exceeding) so I have to weigh the 280 dollars for a bigger stall vs. say an MSD box for 220 and ask those here with more experience, Which and why?

Expectations- I'm shooting for a 325hp+ and 400ft-lbs+ streeteable motor with strong throttle response.

 

Do the converter, you'll get more out of that than an MSD box.

 

My custom pistons for 403 stroker has .043" top rings in place of 1.5 mm rings. There is a brass insert to properly fit the rings. You would need said inserts in the right diameter. You will motice a converter over any ignition upgrade. Your stock converter is decent, the choice is yours.

 

Sounds great. I'll be getting the piston/rings this week and should have an assembled motor soon. With a .025 PTD clearance the math works to 9.46. I'll chew on the converter upgrade I was actually thinking about getting a trans cooler to couple up with the griffin/hayden set up.

 

No ear phones. This sounds like a pulley issue to me. It's a phone so the quality is phone.

 

Is that a dual groove power steering pulley? Are you running two belts around the power steering and water pump? I would put the A/C belt back on. Mine squealed till it burnt the belt off with no A/C belt on. Mine was the single groove ps pulley.

 

I'm working on finding one that will fit. The local parts store computer doesn't list the belts with any degree of intelligence associated. Moreover, the air pump was removed 15 years ago which is making the search all the more of a pita.

 

Just an update. Speed Pros 5.8cc dish pistons order along with rings. Will keep thread updated with anything new.

Thanks!

 

I'd not worry about your pulley squeal until after the engine swap. $800 is very cheap for a turn key engine swap.

 

* I hit CL looking for a parts car and found a junk yard in west philly that had about 100 cars from the 50s-90s. Awesome stuff- 50s caddys, 60s ford pick ups etc. they also had about 25 g-bodies and 15 different oldsmobiles. I snagged a radio bezel from an 82 along with the driver side visor. I then pulled an alternator upper/lower bracket along with a SINGLE pulley/P.S steering pump/brakets ($80.00 for everything. If anybody here is looking for something I'll post next time I'm going up and if I can pull it for you I will). Anyway, I bolted the whole set up from the Donor 79 delta w/307 to the Hurst and hit the key and no squeals, chirps or whines....finally..The guy at the yard was breaking my ***** when I was keeping the old belts for what I called "the interest of science."

 

My father was urging me to wait as well on the belt noises. My contention was I had to figure this out because I didn't want to send the car to the speed shop and get it back all cherry with a new 350 that squealed at 2,500 rpms. I considered this more of a stitch in time and the knowledge learned yesterday far out weighed the effort. Pistons and rings are due to the shop by Friday and final assembly can begin.

 

Apologies as this is not the correct thread but since I started it...

https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ptd/4994361204.html

This is the list of the cars they have there to pick.