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Alright guys, my engine has been overheating on me, white smoke is coming out of the right tail pipe, and when i shut the car off it makes a big sshhhhh sound. I just installed aftermarket gauges to finally get a reading on the engines vitals. Oil pressure at idle is at 60psi and after 10 minutes the temperature is at 180 degrees and its 55 degrees outside today so its definitely not a hot day. Did a compression test and cylinder leak down test, compression showed 5 cylinders at 150 2 cylinders at 90 and the last one at 120. The cylinder leak down test gave me decent results between 10-16% leakage, and i check the radiator for bubbles during the leak down test because i thought i had a blown head gasket, but no bubbles, and i checked the carb, exhaust, and oil for air escaping but nothing! I bought the car a year ago, don't know if its a stock engine inside, it does have a edelbrock rpm intake manifold and edelbrock carb(which has been overflowing gas on occasion)
Can someone give me some insight on this? for all i know, this car could of been rebuilt 10+ years ago.
The low cylinder is a concern. When was the last time it was tuned up? The carb needs to be addressed. Does the white smoke go away once it has completely warmed up? Does it smell like fuel or antifreeze?
What do the plugs look like on right side? If you put a pressure tester on radiator your going to find your leak. Was the edelbrock intake added recently ?
I had white smoke on a '64 Jetstar 88 I owned back in the '90s. The problem turned out to be a broken vacuum modulator on the transmission, so transmission fluid was being sucked into the engine and burned. When burned, it's white.
They are new spark plugs, i haven't driven the car since installing, just ran it in the parking lot a couple times. I do smell fuel but its kind of always has. I just thought that's what old's car do. I have no clue when the intake was installed by the previous owner. I'm not sure when it was tuned up last. possibly a year ago.
Unless RTV was used around the water ports on the intake gaskets, it could suck antifreeze in the motor. As said does it need coolant and oil added? I wonder if the low cylinders are valve related. The Edelbrock carb tune is probably way off.
I had white smoke on a '64 Jetstar 88 I owned back in the '90s. The problem turned out to be a broken vacuum modulator on the transmission, so transmission fluid was being sucked into the engine and burned. When burned, it's white.
I haven't driven the car a lot lately but it doesn't need coolant or oil added. The engines history is unknown to me so i don't know if there is a silicone on any gaskets.
maybe i should shoot a video of the engine running and maybe you guys can hear if anything is going on. Once the overheating was so bad the heat traveled through the transmission and up the floor shifter, but that was only once, and i think it was only because i had only radiator flush and water and no coolant in the radiator( i was told it would be good to take a ride with the flush in it to really clean the cooling system.) but the usual overheating scenario i experience is i go for a ride some where from 10-20 minutes i stop somewhere come back 5-10 minutes and the car wont start, it barely cranks, after 30-40 mins when it cools then it will start.( i had a questionable battery that might of played a roll in it but now i have a brand new one.)
Not quite sure on gas leaking down the walls but I would not drive it like that, it's not running right and if you have a back fire, your going to have a fire! Keep a fire extinguisher handy, carburetor float needle is probably sticking.
I haven't driven the car a lot lately but it doesn't need coolant or oil added. The engines history is unknown to me so i don't know if there is a silicone on any gaskets.
maybe i should shoot a video of the engine running and maybe you guys can hear if anything is going on. Once the overheating was so bad the heat traveled through the transmission and up the floor shifter, but that was only once, and i think it was only because i had only radiator flush and water and no coolant in the radiator( i was told it would be good to take a ride with the flush in it to really clean the cooling system.) but the usual overheating scenario i experience is i go for a ride some where from 10-20 minutes i stop somewhere come back 5-10 minutes and the car wont start, it barely cranks, after 30-40 mins when it cools then it will start.( i had a questionable battery that might of played a roll in it but now i have a brand new one.)
Plain water is actually a better cooling medium than water and antifreeze. The description that you think was over heating probably was not, you described heat soak and is usually caused by bad grounds or corroded connections.
You need to check your dwell (if applicable) and timing, cure the flooding condition in your carb and get it adjusted. That's where I would start. Unless the engine is shaking really bad or making funny noises, videos don't tell anyone much.
Is the car completely warmed up in the first video? What is the temp outside? If there is still a heat riser in the drivers side exhaust, it may still be closed or stuck closed. Sounds like the idle is very high.
The ticking noise inside the engine when turned off is normal cooling noises.
What you're seeing coming out of your exhaust most people wouldn't think twice about. Also, as Oldcutlass says, the car is not warmed up. You shouldn't read anything into that exhaust color when the car is cold. What does the exhaust look like when the engine is fully warmed up? That's what matters.
2. The engine is idling fast, but you said you just started it. So it should idle fast until it warms up. Again, what is the idle speed when it's warm? If the choke is functioning properly, the idle should decrease as the engine warms, but you may have to tap the gas pedal if you don't drive the car to kick it to a lower idle speed. If it always idles high, it needs a tune-up.
Early on you said this, which has me scratching my head:
but the usual overheating scenario i experience is i go for a ride some where from 10-20 minutes i stop somewhere come back 5-10 minutes and the car wont start, it barely cranks, after 30-40 mins when it cools then it will start.( i had a questionable battery that might of played a roll in it but now i have a brand new one
Why do you attribute the hard starting when warm to overheating? There are several reasons why a warm engine could be hard to start.
When you say the engine "barely cranks," what do you mean, exactly? You turn the key and the engine cranks over slowly (raaaaw, raaaaw, raaaw, instead of ra ra ra ra ra?) and won't catch? Like it has a weak battery? That could be a bad starter that's getting affected by the heat from the warm engine.
In my opinion, you have not presented any evidence that the engine is overheating. You mentioned 180 degrees, which is a perfectly normal engine temperature. The fact that you felt heat traveling through the transmission and up the floor shifter doesn't prove engine overheating. If the engine ever got hot enough for that much heat to be transferred to components that far away, it probably would have boiled over and spewed steam everywhere. How do you know the transmission itself isn't getting too hot?
My suggestion above that you might be losing transmission fluid, and that's the source of this "white smoke," could cause the transmission to overheat as one of the functions of the fluid is to cool the transmission. If the fluid level is too low, it could cause this problem. Have you checked the transmission fluid level? Do you know how to do it properly? Engine fully warmed up, running, and in Park. Pull the stick, wipe it off, stick it back in, pull it out, and check.
Last edited by jaunty75; January 15th, 2018 at 07:39 PM.
Okay, let me try to be more clear. The car smoke increases when the engine warms up and is seen from the right header and out the breather and the exhaust. When i rev the engine to just 2,000 rpm while parked the amount of smoke out of the exhaust doubles.
The idle was high in that video but usually with a press on the gas pedal it decreases.
I'm new into learning about cars and i assumed it was overheating because of these reasons. 1. The 180 degree temp was quickly reached in about 5 minutes parked at idle. 2. On several occasions the fluid from the radiator travels into the overflow tank, fills up the whole over flow tank and the pressure pops off the cap of the over flow tank letting coolant go everywhere. 3. The compression and leak down test had me thinking I had a blown head gasket.
Okay so when trying to start the engine the engine acts like it has a bad battery. Turning the key, the car maybe rotates once or twice very slowly. i think my starter is only a year old.
That only happened once with the transmission, its not the transmission. Once again the 180 degrees was only 5 minutes at idle while parked for no more than 5 minutes or so, I suspect it will keep rising when i start driving. I just installed these gauges two days ago, before this point i had no temperature gauge.
I did not check the transmission fluid, my mechanic did last time i was there. I will jack the car up tomorrow and check the transmission fluid. I have never check it before, I just need to find the tranny dipstick.
I'm trying to learn and soak up as much knowledge so thank you for the reply.
Last edited by Christopher Michael Drew; January 15th, 2018 at 08:37 PM.
The transmission fluid is checked with the dipstick and fluid is added down the tube, no need to jack the car up. The engine needs to be idling in park or neutral and completely warmed up.
The engine will warm fast and idle temps may be higher when the car is standing still. The faster you go the easier for the radiator to cool as the airflow increases if everything is set and operating correctly. 180* is a normal operating temp for your engine and could go over 200 idling.
If the radiator spews a bunch of coolant it may be due to it being over filled. There is a mark on the back of the radiator below the cap.
Asking questions is a good way to learn. Do you have an owners manual and a factory CSM, they will explain a lot about how your car operates.
Again the starter issue may be a weak battery, poor or corroded cable connections, or ground issues.
The heat riser is an arm attached to a butterfly valve on the drivers side exhaust manifold. Its located on the bottom right of this picture.
You could pull the heads and send them in for a valve job, it will MAYBE fix the low cylinders. This is only a guess, your compression is not good on the two 90 psi cylinders. What was the leak down on those two cylinders? Head gaskets an intake gaskets are cheap but those low cylinders are a problem. Sounds like the float is set too high in the Edelbrock carb. Those carbs have many issues. I would throw it in the trash, where it belongs.
This is the head gasket from the Olds 350 in my 94 Z71. I couldn't drive a mile without flooring the gauge. Same thing happened when the head cracked on my 5.9 magnum V8, floored gauge and puking antifreeze like crazy.
Okay, let me try to be more clear. The car smoke increases when the engine warms up and is seen from the right header and out the breather and the exhaust. When i rev the engine to just 2,000 rpm while parked the amount of smoke out of the exhaust doubles.
We need to see the smoke situation when it is at its worst. As I said earlier, what you showed in the video above wouldn't cause most people to lose any sleep.
Originally Posted by Christopher Michael Drew
The idle was high in that video but usually with a press on the gas pedal it decreases.
Perfectly normal operation.
Originally Posted by Christopher Michael Drew
I'm new into learning about cars and i assumed it was overheating because of these reasons. 1. The 180 degree temp was quickly reached in about 5 minutes parked at idle. 2. On several occasions the fluid from the radiator travels into the overflow tank, fills up the whole over flow tank and the pressure pops off the cap of the over flow tank letting coolant go everywhere. 3. The compression and leak down test had me thinking I had a blown head gasket.
As noted by oldcutlass and others, 180F is a perfectly fine operating temperature, and it doesn't matter how fast the engine reaches it. What matters, is does ever go above that by any significant amount? A change of plus or minus 10 degrees or so isn't much depending on if you're idling in traffic in Drive on hot day versus cruising down the highway at 70 mph on a winter day. Personally, I don't think you have an overheating problem. As noted by oldcutlass, the radiator could be overfilled.
I think few people really know what the owner's manual says when it comes to adding coolant to an engine with an overflow reservoir. You always add it to the reservoir. When the radiator is filled initially after a coolant change or whatever, you fill to the line that is stamped into the radiator several inches below the filler neck. Then put the cap on and you're done as far as adding fluid to the radiator. Put some coolant in the overflow bottle (I put it up to about half-way between the ADD and FULL lines) and let the engine fully warm up and then fully cool. Coolant will be drawn from the bottle into the radiator if needed. Then start the engine and let it warm up again, and check the coolant level in the bottle. Note that the bottle also says "CHECK HOT." That's why you need to let the engine warm up. When the engine is warm, check the level in the bottle and add coolant if needed if the level is at the ADD line or below.
Originally Posted by Christopher Michael Drew
Okay so when trying to start the engine the engine acts like it has a bad battery. Turning the key, the car maybe rotates once or twice very slowly. i think my starter is only a year old.
All "new" starters are rebuilts, and rebuilts have been known to have problems out of the box. I'm not saying that the problem is the starter, although that's certainly a possibility. It could also be a weak battery. Take the battery to an auto parts store and have it tested, especially if you don't know its history. But I do think the hard starting problem is not due to an overheating engine.
Originally Posted by Christopher Michael Drew
Once again the 180 degrees was only 5 minutes at idle while parked for no more than 5 minutes or so, I suspect it will keep rising when i start driving.
You suspect it will keep rising? What good is speculating? Get it the car and drive it, man!! Let's find out for sure if it keeps rising.!
Originally Posted by Christopher Michael Drew
I just installed these gauges two days ago, before this point i had no temperature gauge.
And yet the people who owned these cars back in the day managed to drive them and live with them just fine with nothing but idiot lights. Sometimes I think gauges give TOO MUCH information. People get sensitive to slight fluctuations in engine temp or oil pressure or whatever and start jumping to all sorts of unwarranted conclusions when there is really no problem at all.
Originally Posted by Christopher Michael Drew
I will jack the car up tomorrow and check the transmission fluid. I have never check it before, I just need to find the tranny dipstick.
You really are new at this, aren't you. It's really kind of cute.
As oldcutlass says, it is not necessary to raise the car to check the transmisison fluid. The dipstick is on the passenger side of the engine compartment, right in front of the firewall, down low, right next to the engine. In the photo below, which shows an Olds 425, the yellow arrow is pointing at it.
As Olds 403 and 307 notes, you might very well have issues with your engine's compression situation. I'm not saying you don't have any problems at all. What I AM saying, and what others are saying, is that you need to be systematic in your approach. Don't jump to conclusions. There are usually multiple possible causes for most symptoms. You need to know what "normal" looks like as far as exhaust gas color, coolant temperature, and things like that for an engine.
The best thing to do when you come onto this site with a problem is to just state the symptoms. Don't give us a diagnosis. Let the experts on here, such as they are, make the diagnosis. As far as I can see, the only symptoms your car is exhibiting are possibly some discolored exhaust (which I think the jury is still out on) and a hard starting problem when hot. There are multiple possible causes for both that have nothing to do with an overheating engine.
Your compression test results do indicate possible issues, but that's longer term. If your engine was leaking coolant into a combustion cylinder, you would note a loss of coolant and possibly coolant in the oil. Yes, you would also likely see white smoke. That's why you have to be systematic in your approach. And again, let's see that white smoke when it's at its worst.
The compression test results were:
Cylinder 1:First Attempt: 150 Second Attempt:140
Cylinder 2:First Attempt: 90 Second Attempt: 90
Cylinder 3:First Attempt: 90 Second Attempt: 90
Cylinder 4:First Attempt:120 Second Attempt: 120
Cylinder 5:First Attempt: 150 Second Attempt: 150
Cylinder 6:First Attempt: 150 Second Attempt: 150
Cylinder 7:First Attempt: 150 Second Attempt: 145
Cylinder 8 First Attempt: 150 Second Attempt: 150
My leakage test was only on cylinders 2,3,4. So cylinder 3 was reading between 30-35% leakage after a few attempts, cylinder 2 and 4 was reading 15-20%
leakage after a few attempts.
I will get the car warmed up and show you the smoke situation at its worse.
The coolant is at the correct level now, I'm not sure what the level was at when that coolant overflowed and i do keep about a half a tank of coolant in the reservoir at all times. The problem is i never see the coolant level decrease in the reservoir tank it only has increased.So the radiator has never drawn it back in. It might be an aftermarket tank.
I have a brand new 2 week old battery that is very good. Start the car right up.
I have this 71 Olds 350 in my 71 Buick Skylark, so there has been a lot of swaps going on with the previous owner. So i dont have an oldsmobile maunal.
I agree im here to hear what the experts have to say about what im presenting, im not a know it all, im just taking a shot at what it could be from my diagnosing of the engine.
Im going to take a ride right now in the car and see what happens! Ill give you guys video and details in a bit.
Last edited by Christopher Michael Drew; January 16th, 2018 at 08:14 AM.
Well plans didn't not go to plan with the drive. I let the car warm up for 10 minutes watching for an increase of smoke and the temperature rising. To my surprise, there was no smoke out of the exhaust but did see some out of the header. I still smell a lot of fuel so the carb does need to be adjusted. At the 10 minute mark, im in the car watching the temperature and its at 210 and the upper radiator hose blows off the radiator and gives my engine bay a damn bath! The hose didnt crack of break, it was like pressure just popped it off! I was furious, i cleaned off the coolant from everything! Now i did add half a cup of coolant to the radiator two days ago because i lost coolant when i installed the temperature sending unit, so I replaced that amount of coolant, I did squeeze the upper radiator hose a couple times to get air out of the system.
I'm just so furious and frustrated, what do you guys think happened? Was there air in the system? Maybe the hose wasnt fastened tight enough? I did tighten it after this happened as tight as i could.
Well i need to go buy more coolant, I've been using Prestone dexcool, is there a better choice?
You do not want to use Dex-Cool in your engine, you want to use the plain old standard green stuff in the yellow jug. I would flush all of that out thoroughly with plain water, replace the thermostat as that might of stuck closed and be the cause of your hose blowing off.
Okay do you have a suggested brand? The normal prestone is yellow. I'm going to get a mr gasket thermostat, what temperature rating should i get, 180 degrees?
To flush the system, I add water and the new thermostat, run the engine and drain. Should I drive it a little? I don't want to screw this up.
As oldcutlass says, you want to get conventional (not long-life) coolant. I prefer the undiluted as I can dilute it myself, and I don't like paying for water.
I changed the coolant in my '78 Toronado relatively recently, and this is what I bought, at Autozone.
As far as how to change the coolant, you don't have to drive the car.
I would say that the first thing to do is drain out the old stuff, but that apparently has already happened.
Others will probably say they have a different method, but this is the way I have changed radiator fluid on my cars since the first time I did it on the first car I ever owned, a '75 Chevy Nova when I was in college back in the late '70s. I've never had a problem.
1. Open the petcock on the radiator and let all the fluid drain out. Yes, there are plugs in the block you can remove to be sure to drain every last drop, but I've never bothered with these. I've never been able to find them, and I've always worried that if I did and ever tried to remove one, I'd damage it or never get it out or never be able to get it back in. It's just not necessary to remove them, in my experience.
2. Once empty, close the petcock, make sure all hoses are secure, and the fill the radiator with clean water from the garden hose.
3. Start the engine with the radiator cap off and let it run until the upper radiator hose is hot, which means the thermostat has opened.
4. Shut off the engine and re-open the petcock to let all the fluid out.
5. Repeat steps 2, 3, and 4 until the fluid drained is clear.
6. Close the petcock and add a proper 50/50 mixture of coolant and water to the radiator to the top (ignore the fill mark).
7. Start the engine with the cap off and run until the upper hose is hot. The fluid level in the radiator will drop significantly once the thermostat opens.
8. Shut off the engine and fill the radiator to the fill mark. Put the cap on.
9. Fill the overflow bottle to a point about half-way between the ADD and FULL lines as I talked about earlier.
10. Start the engine and run it for a while, perhaps taking the car for a spin around the block. Then note the fluid level in the overflow bottle (while the engine is still hot) and add some if the level is below the FULL line.
11 through infinity. Go have a beer.
As far as what thermostat to get, I'd get one to match what was in there. Their temperature rating is stamped on them, and 180 is typical.
Now why did your radiator hose blow off? 210F is not the temperature of an overheating engine. You say pressure popped it off. I'm sure it did, but the pressure should not be above 16 psi if the radiator cap is working properly. Are you sure the hose was pushed fully on to the radiator nipple and that the hose clamp was properly positioned and tight?
I don't know anything about the condition of the hoses and clamps on your car, but if they're anything other than pristine, I'd get new ones. They're not that much money, and you're going through the trouble of a coolant flush and fill. Might as well have new hoses to start your life with the car. Ditto for a new radiator cap.
You might also pull the radiator itself and take it to a local radiator shop to have it checked. It could have a clog in the core which could cause problems. Shops will usually charge only a few dollars to check it.
In the end, the most important thing is to not be furious. This is the fun of working on old cars. Stuff happens. I've had radiator hoses pop off and blow coolant everywhere. Life's a bitch, and then you die. You pick yourself up, brush yourself off, and get a hose and wash off the engine and engine compartment. They needed it anyway!
Last edited by jaunty75; January 16th, 2018 at 08:38 PM.
Over advanced base timing will also cause slow cranking on a hot soak.
pull off the vac advance hose plug it set the dwell and check the timing.go from there,it's easy and won't cost a dime.also is the thermostat in correctly??
Okay, do you use distilled water with the undiluted coolant?
Yeah that's how i did the previous flush so its good to know i'm doing it right.
I think the clamp wasn't as tight as it could be. I slid the hose back on the nipple fairly easy, and then i tightened it.
And i've been thinking the same thing about getting the radiator checked. I'm gonna look up a place now.
I'm not furious anymore, i just love this car so much and i work on it a lot and it seems like things keep happening to prevent me from driving it and enjoying the car. but I will never give up on this car! I love it way to much!
and cherokeepeople I'll see how the thermostat is tomorrow when i pull it out. And im not sure where the vacuum advance hose is or how to set dwell and i dont have a timing gun.
You don't need a special thermostat, just buy a 180* Stant Superstat at your local parts store. Like Jaunty stated make sure the hose and clamps are good. I'd also check all the others. You don't need more flush solution, plain water is fine.
I would recommend one of these. Install it in the end of the 3/4 hose at the heater core and add a short piece of new hose from the T to the core.
When your done flushing, drain the radiator, remove the tool, and then add your new coolant as Jaunty described above.
need to find somebody with dwell meter and timing lite.or check craigslist or a local pawn shop.you dont need to spend 300 dollars on snap on stuff.also is the spring in the lower rad hose? squezze it and see if you can compress it when it's cold.maybe its sucking shut.
I think the stainless steel hoses are a waste of money. These cars didn't come with them when they were new, and they didn't need them. They're just for looks.
Lower radiator hoses don't generally come with springs any more, so don't be concerned if yours doesn't have one. They've been replaced by manufacturing techniques that reinforce the hose walls. You can probably still buy one separately if you want one.
I didnt do the flush yet because i noticed the electric cooling fan is not working. The only connection is one black and one red wire from the fan, and the other end of the black wire is connected to the battery and the red wire is connected to the battery port on the fuse box. Now when i first got the car i took it to "classic car mechanic" and he said he got it the cooling fan working but it was a "quick fix" and i should check if its working before i drive. Obviously i wasnt pleased with his short cut method and never went back and now i work on my own car. Can anyone help me wire this up correctly?
Last edited by Christopher Michael Drew; January 18th, 2018 at 12:25 PM.
January 14th, 2018, 04:31 PM
