78cutlass

for a mild Olds 350 or 403...

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I think it would depend on what year of 350?

But, i would definitely think carbureted. I paid 250 bucks for a brand spankin' new 1405 a couple months ago off amazon.

But, others will probably also suggest a properly set up Q-Jet.

I shall await other responses.

captjim

It depends. I'm sure Mark will chime in. IMO, TBI without a timing curve built into the fuel management system is not all that much better than a carb. But, FI is great in cold weather, usually quite crisp and responsive, however more expensive.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I picked up the manual choke carb, it was dipping into the mid 30's here in montreal last week. My car fired up without any problems.

captjim

I am not going to get into it, but EFI engines run better cold than carbureted cars, IMO. That doesn't mean that there are not carbureted cars that do run OK cold, but generally speaking, easy starts and good cold driveability are advantages that go to FI.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I definitely agree with you, but when it came to getting value for my dollar, i decided to go carbureted since i'm not going to drive the car in the winter up here anyway. Save doing donuts in the parking lot across the street from my place from time to time.

Anyone know what a fuel injected set up costs. All cards in? Intake, carb, fuel lines, fuel sender, fuel pump, crankshaft position sensors? I'd be curious to see.

cutlassefi

Mine was about $3500.00 for sequential multiport.

Captjim is right, carbs can run well in all climates, but if you ever saw the difference in fueling in an EFI'd engine vs what it would take to do the same with a carbed engine during warmup, then cruise temp, then from a cold climate to a hot one you might think twice about the "efficiency" of a carb.
Plus you're in cold start/choke for a much shorter period of time, easier on the oil and overall fuel consumption. Multiply that by every time you fire it up and it adds up.

oldcutlass

$3500 = approx 73 tanks full of gas at current prices. Thats 3 years worth of gas for me! I drive my car everyday, rain, snow, or shine!! A $200 carb for me is the way to go!!!

IMO - I like older cars because they are simple and relatively inexpensive to maintain!! I personally don't want to impose a bunch of technology into the mix, that when a failure comes along I would have to rack my 53 year old brain trying to troubleshoot!!

panos

I agree on that,a carb and a set of screwdrivers can get you home almost always

Vega

My Camaro is TBI and if it wasnt such a hit to the wallet i would have torched that car by now >=/

ShaunM

I had bought my 56 with a Holley pro-jection kit on it and it was so much hassle getting the adjustments just right that I am in the process of going to carbureted as I type. I can't vouch for how the carb will be as of right now, but the pro-jection set up was a pain.

junqueboi

Aww man, give it a chance!

186K on an untouched 305TBI in my '89 RS: car has been in my possession since 35K. Valve covers have never been off & other than a small valve seal puff on the occasional startup, it still runs excellent. I replaced the factory plugs @ 120K & all eight of them were still in excellent shape -- it was amazing. Car still has all the original sensors & the check engine light is still off. When I measured mileage...I was getting somewhere between 20-24 mpg which ain't bad for an older V8 car.

I think the constant near-perfect fuel/air mixture regardless of temperatures is what has kept my engine running so well even after all these years & miles. The car turns over 3-5 times & starts every time, even after months of inactivity. You can actually see the fuel spray from the injectors on these engines too...which is nice.

I love TBI... It's a nice clean setup, requires very few external emission sensors & externally it looks like a carb setup when the air cleaner is on. I'd love to retrofit an earlier car with TBI but I'm not smart enough to figure out the programming aspect of it & since my J-0-B is on the computer...I'd rather not infect my hobby with that

Go to a junkyard & pop the valve covers off some high-mileage TBI-equipped SBC cars & you'd be surprised. I'm a scrapyard hound & have yet to see a sludged up TBI V8. (Not to say there aren't some out there though).



I do still love carbs though....mainly because I understand them a little better.

cutlassefi

Excuse my french but those old Holley Pro-jection units were crap, it had ***** to dial in your air/fuel, really?

Please don't judge the early OEM or Holley stiff vs what's available today, night and day difference but you are still governed by the characteristics of the intake.

ShaunM

I am completely agreeing with you. It is a huge piece. I was just providing my opinion. I went to a current Holley carb myself.

Vega

lol yeah, mines a 91' RS 305. I would like it a lot better if the computer was different. It seems like its got just enough brains to complicate things but not enough to solve problems itself. It seems like every time my car has had a problem its solution was to shut everything off. Mines got around 104k miles right now i think, got it at 88k. Its a good car, fires up every time and all. Just as mentioned before by someone else im not a fan of troubleshooting all the electronics. Ive got something making mine run funky now and ive replaced 5 or so things hoping one of them was the culprit and so far nada. Im thinking its gotta either be the computer or the fuel pump now, those are the only 2 i havent tried

TBI isnt a bad set up, i just preffer to not have a computer in my vehicle is all haha

MDchanic

Sure the bulb's not burned out?

- Eric

rustyroger

There are pros and cons for both setups;

Injection pros, better control of A/F ratio, (multi point is even better), easier cold starting, better gas mileage, better engine response and prolonged engine life just because the engine stays close to optimum tune nearly all the time.
Cons, cost, complexity, difficult for DIY faultfinding and repair.

Carburettor pros, cost, simplicity, easy DIY faultfinding and repair.
Cons, always a compromise for the various conditions encouintered in everyday use (air temp, elevation, local weather conditions etc), engine life reduced, less gas mileage.

I have been told that a good fuel injection system was the same as a great running carburettor, my view is the reverse, a great running carburettor is like a fuel injection system if the local conditions happen to suit the way the carb has been set up.

Easily the biggest factor is cost, a decent injection system will set you back a lot of dollars, you will need to cover lots of miles to get your money back in fuel saved and reduced wear, and although ultimately not as good as injection you can get a carburettor that will have have your engine purring like a contented kitten if it is set up by an expert.

Roger.

Destructor

A properly operating choke system and warm air intake (heat stove) is key for drivability in the winter, true you can't pounce on the gas while the engine is in warm up mode but unless you live very close to a highway on ramp entrance it won't be a factor.

455man

They say for everyday use the TBI is more reliable but I'd heard that for horsepower the carb is the way to go. Maybe the race car guys can chime in on this.

captjim

We had a couple of high HP engines on our dyno (850 hp +/-). The carbs did make more power, but that does not mean it would run a better ET or that it was not a tuning issue. There are way more important factors than peak HP.

cutlassefi

And then you get to tune it again when the climate changes.

You're right Jim, peak hp isn't everything. The ability to control fuel and and spark throughout the rpm range is priceless.
I put EFI on my car because it's a convertible and I got tired of the fuel smell. It runs so efficiently now that I can run it lean enough to be able to use catalytic converters. I have the nostalgic look with no fuel smell and great performance. Plus it controls my fans and locks up my converter at any programmed time and speed. Head and shoulders above those brake switches or a toggle under the dash.