Hello all, I recently put back together my engine after replacing some gaskets. I didn't do a full tear down but went as far as removing the manifold and valve covers. I tried starting it back up and the engine attempts to turn over but doesn't start. From the drivers seat (hood removed) I can see the fan blade turning but I don't see any fuel in the fuel filter near the carb. I'm curious what could potentially cause the fuel pump not to pull anything. Its the original fuel pump with a glass bowl.

Does anyone have any recommendations on tests I can perform or can give me a better understanding of how the fuel pump system works. Does it tie into the vacuum system?

Thank you in advance, all of you have been super helpful in my Olds journey.

 

Focus on reviewing/inspecting any work done before suspecting any other system. Did it start and run ok before this work? Was the distributor, coil and/or spark plug wires removed?

Are you saying no fuel in a glass fuel bowl? If no fuel in the bowl, is there any chance the tank is empty? Try adding fuel to the bowl and see if it starts.

Good luck!!!

 

Correct, it did start prior to the work, was just sluggish. I removed the distributor cap but not the whole assembly, and installed new spark plugs and spark plug wires. I am going to double check the firing order. I have to recheck the glass bowl but it was full when I put everything back together. From the fuel pump, a line runs to the carb, the previous owner spliced in a fuel filter. The fuel filter is the one that is empty, when I first noticed it I remove the hose at the top of the filter (that connects to the carb) and used a siphon to pull fuel into the filer before reconnecting it. Still nothing. I did only put less then a gallon in the tank (after emptying before starting the project). That is one of the test I am going to perform, adding a couple gallons to the tank before trying again. I might look to bypass the fuel filter as well just in case there is an issue there. I'm not sure how to test if the fuel pump is working properly...

 

A gallon of fuel may be too little to reach the pickup tube.

Good luck!!!

 

If mine I would first add a couple gallons of gas to the tank(does it register on the gas gauge at all) then pour a couple ounces down the carb to fill the carb bowl an see if it will fire up. It sometimes takes awhile to get the system filled up and primed. The gas in the bowl will run long enough to get everything primed and going. That filter at the carb if it is the glass cylinder type will never be completely full but will show some air in the filter. By the way they are prone to leakage and a fire hazard as the filter ages and the O rings harden, keep an eye on it or replace it with a solid sealed filter as soon as you can.

The fuel pump top is part of duel vacuum system but has nothing to do with the engine vacuum but runs the wipers and the wiper washers.

A quick and shade tree type of test can be run on the fuel pump to see if it is putting out enough fuel by seeing how long it takes to fill a coke bottle 1/2 full, unhooking the gas line at the carb and Jerry rig a hose on the inlet line to the bottle, it should take less than 15 seconds to fill the bottle.....Lost in the fifties ...Tedd

 

Thanks Tedd. I ended up adding about 4 gallons to the tank. Still didn't work. I checked the fuel lines and tested pumping fuel into the filter using a siphon, while doing so I could hear air and found a crack in the fuel hose. exactly how you described it would look like. For testing purposes I placed some duct tape on it and tried again. Good news is that the filter appears to continue to hold fuel and fill. Bad news, still wont start. I'll try and add some fuel into the Carb, I would add maybe a shot worth of fuel before but I'll add more. I also rechecked all the spark plugs and cables, took off the distributer cap, made note of where the starting point was and placed the spark plug cables in the correct firing order in relation to the starting point. I am curious if I can upload a video of what it sounds like.

Thank you everyone for the help, I'd really love to drive the car a couple times before completely tearing it down and doing a thorough rebuild.

Edit: Here's the video I uploaded to YouTube because the file size was to large (side note, there is a jumper battery charger attached to rule out bad battery):

 

That battery is way too weak to start that engine. Charge battery over night and see what happens then.

 

Agree...no chance of starting with that slow of a cranking speed and primary voltage. Charge or replace the battery.

Good luck!!!

 

X2 on the battery. and that fuel filter isn't the really bad one that always leaks after a while. Do you have a jump box? It is sometimes needed on first startup. Have you checked for spark(juice) at the + side of coil and at the points. Should be close to 12 volts with the key in start and 9 volts in run. All the body grounds clean and tight. She will go just hunt down where you aren't getting spark, fuel, timing and compression. It sounded good and smooth on what revelations you did get on that weak battery. And you do know that Oldsmobile distributors turn counter clock wise opposite of a Chevy. Keep us in the loop there are always things to learn/ discover..... Tedd

 

As everyone said, the cranking speed is too slow. Charge or replace the battery and be sure the terminals are clean. After that is corrected; if you have fuel in the carburetor and a spark at the spark plug at the proper time, it will most likely run.

 

Hold up... I just searched the manual and didn't read anywhere that the distributor turns counter clockwise. Well there's at least one of my issues solved, I placed the firing order in a clockwise rotation. I will reverse it and charge up the battery more. I was using a jump box but the firing order would explain how it never fully kicked. I will test this tonight. Thank you Tedd

And thank you everyone else with their input. I will test them all tonight.

 

On CSM page 13-34 distributor specs...Rotor Rot. L. H.

 

Haha okay fine, it was in the service manual, but I call shenanigans because no novice would have been able to see and understand that.

Thanks for finding it. Fingers crossed that it starts up tonight. I’ll keep everyone posted.

 

To find the distributor rotation direction, point a finger from the vacuum advance hose connection along the advance housing toward the distributor. The direction your finger points is the rotation direction.

 

Good advice, thank you, I'll keep it in mind.

 

I will concede that the information was in the manual and that I overlooked it. In addition to what yellowstatue mentioned, I was double checking the fire order (even though its on the manifold) in the service manual. I actually looked at the electrical diagram at the time and saw the distributor and that it was firing counter clockwise. I did a quick google search and of course saw a Chevy post and assumed all distributors rotated clockwise. I'll be out off the office soon and am eager to check if it solves the problem. Thank you everyone.

 

Sadly I was not able to get the Olds started last night. I got the spark plug cables in the correct order and bought some heavy duty jumper cables. The start sounded a lot better but still didn't look like I was getting any fuel. Decided to remove the full filter and put a new hose without the filter. I also bought a new heavy duty battery. Tried again but still couldn't get started. I confirmed that fuel is now spraying into the carb officially. Is it possible to add to much fuel? Below will be the latest video I took.


If anyone has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it. I will start narrowing down the issue this weekend. What is a good way to see if the spark plugs are getting a spark. Should I unplug one of the cables, attach an old plug and see if there's a spark while trying to turn over the engine?

 

This would confirm your spark plug wires are good. A timing light will also confirm. Are the spark plug wires installed in the proper relation to the rotor ?

 

Now they are, originally they were not until Tedd pointed it out. I was hoping that would solve the problem along with a jump start but didn't look like it. I will look into getting a timing light as well to confirm.

Thanks for the input.

 

I have two of those motors sitting on dollys with radiators. I fire them up every couple of months, for two reasons, One is, just to keep fresh fuel flowing thru the carburator to flush out the old fuel. Second is, i just like listening to them run. One thing i have found is that when they sit a few weeks or months, the fuel pump has a hard time priming the carb. Seems like the fuel likes to drain down. I always pre prime with a coffee can of gas. Or if you have some sure start or either, that is always a way to test if it will fire and if it's fuel related. Sounds much better now that you have it cranking better.

 

Have you popped the cap (key on) and checked to see if you get spark at the points and coil? If so work on down to the spark plugs. If you don't want to pull a plug just pull the cover and use a old plug, ground it on the block and see if there is fire there. I would think with as many times that this engine has gone around and not a pop there might be something electrical going on. Maybe timing or could be a slipped timing chain though it doesn't sound like it as it cranks. Got to be something simple but over looked..... Tedd

 

Is the rotor in the distributor pointing at the # 1 when the harmonic balancer is at TDC ? I am wondering if you installed the distributor rotor shaft in the right place.

 

You now have the engine turning sufficiently to start if everything else was right. Something is not right. Be sure to keep the battery charged up so as to maintain that cranking speed. You asked about the amount of fuel. Yes, you can have too much. Don't drown it with fuel. It will "flood". Also remember that it is a four cycle engine. You need the plug to spark near the top of the compression stroke. If you are out by 360 degrees it will likely do nothing.

 

Thank you everyone. I will be testing your suggestions this weekend. I plan to put back on the original distributor cap and confirm that the spark plugs are sparking. Then work from there. I will keep everyone posted and put up a new video... hopefully of it running.

Thanks!

 

It's alive! I started to trouble shoot this evening. First checking if the spark plugs were getting a spark. I used an old one, pulled one of the cables and kept an eye on it while I started the engine. I saw a spark during the proper rotation. I used starter fluid and tried again to start the olds and I heard something as if it was about to kick but didn't. Decided to put back on the original distributor cap and reconnected everything. Couple more sprays of starter fluid and although it struggled it finally started and then would die out. Couple more tries and now it stays on. Thank you everyone for all the help. I really appreciate it. Let me know your thoughts on how it sounds. Next thread will be about the brakes, since I press down all the way on the brakes and shifted into drive and the Olds started rolling. Any thoughts on the exhaust that is coming out from underneath the car?

Finally started:

3rd time, smooth start but there is a clicking noise:

Exhaust from underneath (maybe just burning off):

Thanks again for all the help.

 

The clicking sound maybe(probably) lifter tick/ noise. Have you given it a oil change? Often this will help on a longtime non running engine or it may quiet down with use. The smoke from underneath the car is probably the down draft tube doing its thing releasing crank case pressure and vapers . Often this this is called blow by and if it is excessive it's a sigh of worn or stuck rings. Run it awhile and see if it gets better you might get lucky.

Your brakes going to the floor without a hint of brakes working is usually a sign of a non operating Treadle- vac ( master cylinder brake booster) or bad leaking vacuum lines or booster tank it self. A quick test( trouble shoot) can be done by lettings the car run for a few minutes then turn it off and unhook the large vacuum hose at the carb hard line there should be a sucking sound as the hard line separates from the soft hose If it doesn't. there is a valve at this junction and if it is bad the vacuum will be lost at this point and no sound. Keep working your way down the system and test at the booster tank the same way then the Treadle- vac. It could be anyone of these but the Treadle-vac are problematic with age if it hasn't been rebuilt in this decade it could be bad.... Just a few thoughts....Tedd

 

I drained the oil and refilled but didn't change out the filter. I will do that next along with checking the vac like you suggested. I'll most likely drain the radiator as well after I let the car fun for 10 minutes. Hopefully the vac issue is just a leak and I can temp fix it for a couple weeks. After I drive it a couple times I plan to do a complete tear down and rebuild. It was a relief having it start back up. Going to work on it for the next couple hours. Hope everyone is doing well.

 

Good ole starter fluid. Sure sounds familiar. Glad you got it started.

 

Quick update: I tested the vacuum idea and unscrewed the vacuum line from the carb, I didn't hear any hiss. I will start looking at how to trouble shoot and make rebuild the master cylinder. Ideally I will change to a disk brake system but just wanted to drive the car a bit before any major projects.

 

Hmmm, considering that the windshield wiper motor was removed and I have a good amount of open vacuum lines. Could that cause the lack of vacuum? I'll start reading through the manual more and see if there are any connections.

 

The wiper motor runs off the vacuum pump on the fuel pump and has nothing to do with engine vacuum. If you have other vacuum lines missing or cracked coming off the manifold or carburetor that can cause issues.

Beings your wiper motor is missing you might want to consider a Newport Electric wiper motor. Best thing I did to my car in years. Took the grief factor down to nothing driving in the rain. Ask around this forum others have seen the light and the road switching It's a easy switch and bullet proof reliable..... Teddhttps://newportwipers.com/

 

That will be my next mission, check all the lines and confirm everything looks good from the manifold/carb.

I will definitely look at the Newport wipers, sounds like a great idea. Thank you Tedd.

 

Ran some tests. I have vacuum from the carb to the master cylinder. I’m gonna check brake fluid levels and might try and bleed the brakes to see if there is improvement.

Also, since the vacuum from the fuel pump is running to nothing right now (missing windshield wiper motor). I checked and there is definitely a vacuum, should I cap it for now or does the fuel pump need vacuumed air?

 

No. It won't create a vacuum leak so no big deal if it's open. If you convert to electric wipers you can then remove the wiper vacuum line and cap it for a cleaner look.

 

Awesome, thank you. I duct taped the end of the hose meanwhile but I'll most likely cap it at one point.