1PDQ55

I've got a 63 Dynamic 88 with a 394. I've got a friend who just built a 330 for a customer that has defaulted on picking it up. Will a 330 directly swap with the 394 in a 63 Dynamic? And do you think it would be better gas mileage for me to go with a 330? He is also going to give me a R200 that he thinks would mate up with it. Do any of you know if an R200 will mate up with a 330? I guess the ultimate question is if I buy a 330/R200 for $600 would I be helping myself out over the 394/Hydromatic?

rocketraider

Not a direct swap. The mounting is different as is the transmission bell, though you can get a 62-64 Pontiac bellhousing and hook the Hydro to the 330. You'll also have to either move the radiator lower hose nipple to the passenger side or use a 64-only 330 water pump.

200R4 should bolt to a 330 easily enough. The issue you'll have is that you will have to fabricate mounts for both engine and transmission.

But... find a 64 Jetstar 88 and you'll see how the factory put the SBO/Jetaway in the 64 big car. 63-64 big cars are similar enough that the mount should be the same.

You'll never rebuild a 394 or a Slim Jim for $600. You have to ask yourself is it worth it to you to do all the fabbing to put the new drivetrain in there.

joe_padavano

The 1964 J88 used a unique frame to accommodate the second gen Olds V8. There are two tabs welded at the front crossmember where the side motor mounts for the 330 attach and a different rear crossmember for the Jetaway rear mount. You need to weld these pieces to a 63-64 394 frame to bolt a second gen Olds V8 into that car. By the way, the rubber motor mounts for the 64 J88 are not reproduced anywhere, so you either need to modify the frame brackets to use the 65-70 full size motor mounts (the location of the stud that bolts to the frame is different) or you need to find a good original set of 64 J88 mounts. Steele Rubber will revulcanize deteriorated original mounts if you can find them.

1PDQ55

Thanks for the advice guys. So I'm pretty new to the Olds game, and haven't really got under there to inspect the mounts. How does the 394/SlimJim mount - front, bell, rear of trans? Do you think I could just get away with fabbing side mounts and a trans crossmember for the 330/R200? Any ideas on driveshaft length?

joe_padavano

The 394 uses a mount on the front of the engine that bolts to the crossmember and a pair of mounts on the sides of the bellhousing. The 330 (and all second gen Olds V8s) use a pair of mounts on the sides of the block and a single mount under the tail of the trans. As I noted above, the 1964 J88 frames are different from those of other 63-64 full size cars to accommodate this mounting method. There are a pair of tabs welded to the front suspension crossmember that accommodate the 330 motor mounts and a separate provision for a conventional crossmember under the tailhousing of the trans. You will either need to replicate the J88 frame mods or custom fabricate mounts for the 330 and later model trans.

64Rocket

If your not set on keeping the car original and the 394 and trans has problems, then the 330 & 200r4 may be a better deal.
If you are up for a project and have the ability to fabricate. Then go for the 330 combo.
Like Joe said, fab some ears from the cross member to the block side mounts and a trans cross member, a local drive shaft shop can build you one. The muffler shop can get you hooked up.
It will be a project and should only be a couple of weekends and away you go.
Best of luck and keep us up to your progress with pic's.
Also do a seach for "Citcapp" for he has done project almost the same as you. It will have many good pic's and ideas for you.

Gene

1PDQ55

Thanks guys, some valuable info for sure. Here's the deal though, the 394/Slim are running great with no signs of problems, but 107k miles on them. I got massacred on here for asking about gas mileage before, but I guess I'll do it again . . . I'm just wondering if it would be worth the time and effort to put in the 330/R200 over staying with what I have! This car is my DAILY DRIVER, the only one! I have some talented friends who can fab just about anything, so if it is worth it in the long run to go with the 330, I'd probably go for it, but if it's going to get the same result in the end, I'll just roll with the 394 til she can't take any more? Thoughts??

By the way, I knew what I was getting with a BB Olds as far as mpg, but I am averaging 10.2 mpg over the last 6 months. Does that sound right? I made a couple of changes last weekend, that I think may have improved it but I haven't gone through a tank yet to know. Gas mileage is not necessarily my goal, but I was thinking I'd get 12-15. I'd like to do the Power Tour, but 10mpg is going to suck a lot of extra money out of my wallet

64Rocket

Since the engine and trans is doing great, I'd just leave it alone. It's not broke, don't fix it.
You could convert it to electronic ignition.
Remove the fan blade, convert to electric fans.
Over inflate your tires a couple of pounds.
make sure your ignition timing is right on or a couple of degrees advanced.
Find a way to run fresh outside air to the air cleaner.
make sure your tune-up is up to par, (ie, cap, rotor, plug wires, plugs, fuel filter)

Gene

1PDQ55

Thats one of the changes I did last weekend. The previous owner had put in a pertronix, but I noticed he had just pulled the vacuum advance off and left the hose hanging, so I hooked it back up just to see if it was any better and it seems to be. He had plugged off the inlet at the carb though. The plugs look great - nice and tan with no deposits. I am thinking that if I stay with this setup, I may change to a 4 barrel and dual exhaust. Does anyone make headers that fit a 394 in a Dynamic? Also, any ideas on what the stock rear gear might be? And one last question, can I change the oil pan gasket without pulling the engine? I'd like to do it anyway just to clean it up, but might hold off if I can change the gasket easily!

krooser

Well a 4 bbl. isn't going to help with your fuel economy that's for sure. Even a well prepped Q-jet will FORCE you to stand on it a little more.

Headers? Well I doubt you'll find anyone making new ones for your car but some outfits make hot rod headers for the early Olds but getting them to fit would be a major accomplishment. Keep what you have and make sure you get it to run as good a you can... timing, good working carb, etc.

If you need better MPG why not buy an econo-box beater to drive and keep the Olds to impress the girls? Collector car insurance is dirt cheap compared to regular insurance so you could afford the extra insurance with what you save on gas.

olds 307 and 403

A good 4bbl like the Qjet or new Street Demon based off the Themoquad will help mileage some. More importantly, it will be more fun to drive. Doesn't the Slim Jim have a throttle rod to shift? Ross Racing or Dave Smith might be able to hook you up with headers.

krooser

I guess I would disagree... while a well tuned Q-Jet can deliver good mileage, how often does a driver have to kick it in the pants to hear that 4 bbl open? Pretty often in my case (at least when I was younger)... kinda like loud pipes... the louder the pipes the heavier the foot.

joe_padavano

If the 394 is running correctly, you are unlikely to drive the car enough to recoup the engine swap costs in fuel savings alone. A better choice (though still not very cost effective) is to swap in an overdrive trans using one of trans adapter kits available for the 394. This will still cost you several thousand dollars by the time you buy the kit, a properly built trans, a custom driveshaft, a custom shifter, etc, etc. Only you can determine if it's worth it.

As for a 4bbl and gas mileage, a spreadbore 4bbl WILL give slightly better mileage WHEN DRIVEN THE SAME. That, of course, is the problem for most of us...

Tedd Thompson

Also you might have to prune some on the transmission tunnel to get a different transmission to fit in the same hole as the Slim Jim did . they called it a Slim Jim for a reason. You are probably looking at at least a three thousand dollar conversion, I would just take that money and use it on gas and run it the way it is....Tedd

1PDQ55

Krooser, I got away from the econobox, I wanted something to drive every day that I was happy to get into. There is nothing like driving that Olds to work every day. Like I said gas mileage was obviously not the reason I got it. I got it so I could drive to my boring job with a smile on my face every morning . As far as the 4 bbl, I think that would be a good swap for me, I rarely put my foot in it. I have a blown 55 Chevy for that! I can get a 4bbl intake for $125 and I have a friend who has an old Holley that he said he'll give me, just got to rebuild it. I was thinking headers just to help it breathe better, I can't imagine that crossover pipe 2 into 1 helps in that category. By the way, my insurance on the 2005 4x4 Nissan Xterra I got rid of for the Olds was about $150 more every 6 months, so I'm cheaper in a "less safe" car with no seat belts or airbags! Crazy to think about!

1PDQ55

Yeah, Tedd, that is what I was afraid of. I think if I were to go that route, I'd just find an LS motor and trans and drop it in. Just don't have the money for that yet!

64Rocket

Why do so many think a chebby engine is the way to go?

Gene

krooser

If you have an insured daily driver you can probably insure the Olds for way under $300/year (my guess) with a collector car policy... but most companies need you to have a daily driver.

krooser

They have been drummed into thinking that for the last 50 years. Unending favorable magazine articles, parts catalogs, etc. have all favored the SBC forever. Sure it was a groundbreaking design in 1955 but the aftermarket has tons of good parts for all engines and have for the last 30 years... but the catalogs only feature the best selling stuff... and that's mostly SBC.

The funny thing is there were lots of engine swap stories back in the day featuring Olds and Cadillac engines put into Chevys and Corvettes... no substitute for cubic inches even back in the mid-50's.

You can stick a SBC in about anything but, IMHO, it's like sewing a "winkie" on Marilyn Monroe... you can do it but you pretty much ruin the original design.

1PDQ55

Well, normally I wouldn't do that, but what "new" Olds motor would I put in it. LS motors are easy and readily available in a junkyard and get great gas mileage. Pretty much the same reason the Chevy 350 is so popular. At least it would still be a GM product!

1PDQ55

With collector car policies, you can't drive it every day which defeats the purpose of me buying it.

joe_padavano

ZZZZZZZZ......

Sorry, but Chebby motor swaps are boooooring.

Look, Olds motors were daily drivers when new. Mileage will be more a function of vehicle weight and weight of your right foot than engine choice. If you must have a "new" Olds motor, try an Aurora/Northstar swap. The two are the same except for the displacement, so I'd go with the N*. 320 HP stock, 20+ MPG in a 3800 lb car (my Allante). Certainly wouldn't be boring. The first gen Caddy SRX came with a RWD version of the N*, including having the water pump in the right place. These are showing up in wrecking yards now. Use the stock trans or get one of the 700R4s converted to fit the N* bellhousing pattern. Now THAT would be interesting.

Ross Racing Engines

Chevys are great....Love the engine myself....have been racing them for a long time...They just dont belong in place of your 394.

and you can build an all "new" 394 Oldsmobile that can be driven anywhere... and parts are readily available as well...How do I know? Because we make a lot of it!!

And that LS on its best day will never be as sexy as these Old girls! While I couldnt find a pic of a 394 I had taken...these are still from the same engine family of 1949-64

Ross Racing Engines

While it does take a bit of pocketbook to play with vintage powerplants.....Do you think this car would have a crowd around it everytime we unload it,if I had put a SBC in it. If I did It would be just another dragster......

7.0's @ 195 with a 1957 371 Based Oldsmobile

Tony

1PDQ55

I totally agree that the old style motors (Olds and Chevy) look way better than the new motors with all the wires and hoses running everywhere, coil packs on top of the heads, etc. I won't be changing out the 394 for an LS anytime soon if ever. The whole question came up because I can get a 330 for $600 and would it be worth my while to swap that in.

64Rocket

Like we have said, if the 394 and the trans is working good for you, leave it.
Just treak it as you go, do improvements, dual exhaust, electronic ignition, better carb, remove factory fan, replace with electric fans, check you rear end ratio and move to another ratio for better performance. If you have 2.56, just a move to 3.08 is a good move.
Good luck, keep us informed.
Gene

krooser

Depends on the company... some limit use others limit miles... most allow "maintenance driving".... my last collector policy allowed 7500 miles per year which I never managed to exceed.

1PDQ55

I've never seen one that allows daily driving to work. I just wouldn't risk saying I was "maintenance driving". I've put over 15k miles on it since I got it in July of 2010. It's now got 110,000 on the original motor and it still runs like a sewing machine and doesn't give me any problems! I'll keep going the way I'm going until something happens and make a decision then. Thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate the thoughts!

64Rocket

Be sure to add an additive to your gas, with driving that many miles on unleaded gas. The additive will help from the valves sinking in the head. The lead cushions the valve seat.
Just my thought.

Gene

1PDQ55

Oh yeah, I'm adding substitute every three tanks or so!! Actually had the valve covers off last weekend, for 100k they looked pretty clean!