VC455

Today, matt69olds posed a reasonable question that merits discussion...
"Instead of closing threads, how about suspending or banning the people who just can’t control themselves"

oldcutlass (moderator Eric) replied...
"Moderator decisions are not open to discussion. If you don't want threads closed due discussing subjects against forum rules, don't introduce conversations that are against forum rules."

First, thank you Eric for helping us maintain order in our posts. And, yes, moderator decisions should be final. This isn't about second-guessing moderator decisions.

Next, to imply that a major reason for closing threads is that people introduce conversations against forum rules is a bit too absolute. From my observation, many threads go off track and posters start to pile on with political rants and unsuitable posts.

Blaming the OP (the introducer) for this is not the right focus.

In the discussion group for my daily driver, accessing 10-year-old threads shows about 5% of posters have been banned in the ensuing period. I've not seen this in ClassicOldsmobile.

Wouldn't this just be another way of keeping order, especially with serial offenders?

Instead of ending the discussion, delete the questionable posts, ban or suspend the guilty party, and allow the discussion to continue.

Should we institute this as a way of keeping interesting discussions on track? What do y'all think? Downsides anyone?

RetroRanger

Im ok w a warning, a suspension and then a ban.

I rarely participate in anything political, i will say some folks just cant control themselves and i suspect they post just to get a thread shut down.

I can only think of 2 users in the past 10 years or so who got banned here one was given multiple chances and had been banned before and eventually was banned again w a different user name

The other IDK why he got banned he seemed pretty passionate about OLDS but some where along the lines he got banned too.

Tedd Thompson

This system works why change it,? CO. is without a doubt the best forum I frequent I can't see taking a chance on maybe this would be better. The crew steering this ship is fair logical and without bias, lets not rock the boat.... Just my thoughts....Tedd

Fun71

In my observations, they also appear to be very trigger-happy. I have seen threads closed due to "political discussions" that in my opinion were NOT discussions about politics. In my opinion, some folks are just too sensitive, moderators included.

Now I'm prolly gonna be the first one banned, or get this thread closed for voicing my opinion about "politics".

no1oldsfan

X2. I have seen threads pulled and or closed over comments that didn't seem offensive to me. But everyone has differing opinions on what is or isn't offensive.

redoldsman

I have been on this site longer than most of you but not longer than Tedd. I only remember one person who was banned and he deserved it. That was several years ago. There is one moderator (not Eric) that I have seen close threads and I felt it was not necessary. I have seen some folks come on here and try and start some BS and they don't last very long. This site is running very well the way it is and I see no reason to change it. This is my

Bunser

A warning, a suspension and then a ban. Seems logical to me.

VC455

Kenneth,

Consider that you may have seen those "political" threads after they were closed. Then, the questionable comments have already been removed.

In a few cases, I had copies of a thread with the "political" comments intact, just before the thread was closed. In those few cases, the moderator removed evidence of the problem when closing it.

The quotes in post 1 were from a closed thread. I started this topic because I thought matt69olds had a reasonable question that merited continued discussion, not suppression

To me, penalizing the poster of "political" material and removing their post is a different hammer that moderators could choose to allow further discussion in a thread.

Gary

old greybeard

This site seems to be moderated pretty well. Little quick on the trigger, being over cautious. But give someone a inch, and they will overreact. Sad where we can’t discuss gas prices or govt regulations that will affect our hobby like adults. Its the world we live in.
Too bad we can’t moderate grumpy old men!

Weezer

I think you've hit the nail on the head. When someone is given an inch, then they will continue to push that boundary until a mod/admin has to step in and close the thread. It always seems to be the same couple of people, and they just can't seem to help themselves (both sides of the political spectrum are guilty).

Warning / suspension / ban seems like it would be a good method, but the mods/admins would need to be willing to keep a list or something, and it could be a bigger headache to try to enforce. Additionally, it could lead to a lot of posts being reported that aren't violating rules, but rather just hit someone too hard in the "feels".

oldcutlass

I resurrected this thread to say that this exercise in futility has been tried and failed in the past and even as recent with the "All electric by 2030" thread. Closing this type of thread is the easiest course of action because inevitably it will turn political. Then people who get their posts deleted start to point to other posts and send belligerent pm's to mods asking why mine and not this one.

Andy

Moderators do a fantastic job on this site..its not easy I am sure.. people get passionate about their beliefs and hobbies..sometimes its necessary to have a pause put into the convo.. I have had warnings because I get passionate about certain things..but I do not blame the moderator, I looked at myself and realized my ability to be reasonable had surpassed me. Great job to these folks.

2blu442

I have opinions, I have very strong opinions! I vent those on facebook!! I discuss politics with several Oldsmobile brothers on FB. But here let's try to focus on Oldsmobiles. We're all human so nothing is perfect but the moderators are trying to keep things on an even keel.

Kennybill

I opened the thread the moderator started about why he closed the original thread. My opinion is, if you want to close a thread, just say it broke the rules. Then let it go. I felt the moderator went on a rant, then dos the member he had a problem with. Imo, called him a name. Then he kept going on, knocking his employer, in a political way, again imo. He brought up Pearl Harbor. My Father and four Uncles served in the Pacific in WW2. He didn't knock Italian or German car makers. I wrote an opinion basically saying how I felt his rant against,
​​​​​the member's rant that closed the thread. It was like the pot calling the Kettle black. I went to post it, and that thread was already closed. Go figure. I don't think anyone individually should have the power to ban a member. Jmo.

RandyS

I guess I fall on the other side of the argument. In a sense, forums like ours are a form of Social Media. Facebook for example, has no problem suspending or banning someone if they continue to break their rules. (ask me how I know) IMO, the same should apply here. If you break the rules, you should first get a warning. Another rule break and a second warning. At some point, the abuser gets suspended for a period of time, or banned. Sorry about losing their possibly valuable input about Oldsmobiles, but how many times must one be warned?? (I probably fall in to this category also.......)

no1oldsfan

I moderated a big website for years. It can be a drag on your time for sure. Important thing is to know that there are many many opinions in this world. As a mod it is important to stand neutral. I haven't seen one person post anything radical here. Strong opinions happen. Have I seen anyone just go off? Not even once. We are all adults. Opinions happen. That said there are times when people do go nuts. I have yet to see that here.

Grayghost

I think, leave it be. as is. Don't fix what works type thing.
But that said,
Political issues that affect the classic car hobby, motor sports, or the whole automotive hobby in general should not be taboo.
And be allowed to be posted and talked about. Those that can't be ladies and gentle men about the issue, need to be told to cool their jets. if that calls for a warning and then a time out (vacation) so be it.
That simple.

HighwayStar 442

I was not attacking any car maker. Joking about a book I read many years ago about the Advertising business. With that title.

Advertising guy, came out with a ad for Panasonic. Just funny for me. Own a few Toyotas, good cars and trucks.

I read a huge amount of books. And have different ideas on jokes. Just me.

My father and all my Uncles served Pacific & Europe in WW2.

Koda

As far as I can tell, the moderators got anointed by some absent power, about whom the average user like you and me know nothing. The rules are set by those same people. Considering how it's active users that make the value of a forum, one would think that the input of the users would be prized, instead of ignored. We can't get better moderators, because there's no process to replace them. I reported an incorrect moderation action two days ago and asked for another moderator to contact me so I could file a complaint. All I have gotten so far is crickets in response, which is fine, as long as they're cool with the message that sends.

I grew up on the internet during its formative years, and I go by one rule online, which is to never say anything online you wouldn't say in person. Not enough people, both users and moderators, all over the internet (as in, not just here) follow that rule; they're unconsciously ruder and more aggressive than they would be in person because they're not getting those cues of "I might be heading for an *** whipping." Worse yet, long term moderators will use their power to settle personal scores.

Kennybill

HighwayStar 442, why did you take your post down then? Maybe you can repost it in it's entirety. I'd like to see how I read it wrong.

HighwayStar 442

I did not take it down. Greater powers than me did. Will PM you. Its did not perfectly followed the rules, maybe?. Some guys feel EV are just..... And lose it.

OLDSter Ralph

1. The Moderators do a pretty good job of enforcing the the rules.
2. You wanted to overturn what YOU consider "an incorrect moderation". From what I saw on a thread that was closed BECAUSE OF YOU, you should at the very least be suspended for a period of time.
3. If you grew up online during the formative years, you should be more than aware of rules, respect and courtesy.
4. You are frequently more rude and aggressive than should be tolerated. Mind your manners.
5. "Poor you", the moderators are out to get you. HAHAHAHHAHHAHA You are not a martyr thats being persecuted, you are a _____.
6. Nice going dummy, you got another thread closed a couple days ago.

HighwayStar 442

Careful, he will put you on his ignore list. And give you the two finger salute. South park's Cartman.

HighwayStar 442

X2 I would say more, but I am afraid this thread would be closed! After reading FAQ of this site. What stands out.

User Conduct
1. Keep in mind that this is not a democracy. We have the right to refuse service to anyone. If you make yourself too big of a pain in the butt to the moderating community or otherwise are a bad influence on the forum, your access may be revoked.

2. Attacks on moderators will not be tolerated, and may result in an immediate permanent ban. Moderators sometimes have to make difficult judgment calls, but remember we *are* human (well at least most of us are!) Hopefully we'll make decisions that are considered "correct" by the majority of the community. Do not post complaints, criticisms, or moderation questions on the forum. These posts will be deleted and no explanation will be given. If you have a concern about a particular moderator, send a private message to a Super Moderator or Administrator. (Not to sure who they are) And if you have constructive suggestions on improvements that can be made to the forum or its moderation, please post them in the Suggestions area.

Koda

Wow, a list in bullet points with bold face and even some caps, and you're way over the line. Before I start in on it, this is precisely the sort of thing I'm talking about. Had this been a conversation between two other people, and you would have butted in unsolicited, I think the proper thing to do would be to upend a beer over your head and watch you splutter. Since you're older, you wouldn't be able to do much else, and you would've deserved it.

Now, off to your nicely formatted list.

A: Response to point 1. I disagree. I think they permit certain behavior from some, and not from others.

B: Response to point 2. I had to go open up Highwaystar's post. For the record, he is the only person on my ignore list, because he is only one of two people on here who would chase an argument into PMs on here after a thread got closed. Most people just quit at that point, but he'd keep at it, and I decided I didn't need that sort of stuff. So, I opened it up and found this:
I personally consider that sort of rudeness being worthy of a "." However, directly swearing at someone is not permitted here, so I improvised with the middle finger. My response was a RESPONSE to previous rudeness. Had Oldcutlass closed the thread, I would've agreed, however, he called me out by name as it being my fault, when someone else had instigated it. This is what I mean by permitting behavior from some, but not others. Before I move on, I will note that the previous vulgarity was not directed at anyone, thus it is within the rules. In case you care, there is a forum rule infraction system, and a mod way worse than Oldcutlass who is now gone (and I hope he stays that way), used to dick me over for the slightest thing. So, I would argue that the thread was closed because of HighwayStar talking **** first, not my response to him.

C: Response to point 3. Let me tell you about 90s internet. Stuff was brutal. It was the wild west. People were extremely polite, but, if you went after someone, it was game on. You tore into the wrong person online, you might find your bank account at zero a couple days later. I'm not talking about aol chatrooms, I'm talking about the real stuff here back before people realized not only where the backdoors were, but that they were even there. As a result, you might notice something about me on here. I'm pretty polite, until someone squares off; then it's game on. Last big argument I had here, some senior citizen was talking trash about how I should give him my address and he'd come settle it in person. I showed him I already had his address, so there was no need (note: using your real name as a forum handle makes it easy, plus a little trip to the county GIS). Boy, he got hot. Couldn't hang. He's since modified his handle to be a little less identifiable, and he doesn't talk at me anymore.

D: Response to Point 4. Again, I disagree. A street culture maxim applies here: "Don't START none; won't BE none." For instance, I never criticize you, yet you routinely jump into conversations of mine that don't involve you, and bitch me out. Would you say "mind your manners" butting into a conversation in real life? I don't think so.

E: Response to point 5. Now you're just being rude. How do you expect me to take you seriously? I've been treated a lot worse by a lot better than the mods here; you'll note I responded to an ongoing thread that others started and merely commented that the site management is so broken that even the established methods of communication fail; it's not something I'll lose sleep over.

F: Response to point 6; see this is exactly what I'm talking about. You're calling me out on my behavior, but no one asked you. In this very thread, you've called me a dummy, you've laughed at me, you've mocked me, you've told ME to mind MY manners while doing this, and you think _I_ should be suspended?

Summary: I don't hold with undeserved rudeness on the internet. I don't start anything with anyone. I'm a peaceful man, however, I'm not a harmless man. Start something and I'll return fire. I choose to be polite, and, when it's warranted, I am impolite. This puts me legions above others who are offensive by their nature. If you wish to improve the nature of this site, perhaps you should concentrate on those that cause the arguments, not those that finish them. Lastly, please note that you did not deserve a response at all, since you butted in with known bias against me, and, not only I give you a response, it was a polite and courteous one.

no1oldsfan

Off topic but
Why do you always post in bold type?? Do we hear you better??

VC455

Koda, stop escalating.

Put all this in PMs to whomever.

ignachuck

Glenn says it all ^^^^^

no1oldsfan

So the website that I ran we made a new forum so people could hash things out. It was only visible to logged in members. It was a good place for people to bitch and argue. Just my two cents.

HighwayStar 442

Can not understand how two wrong make it right?? Quote koda ''I would've agreed, however, he called me out by name as it being my fault, when someone else had instigated it.''
Someone else he is talking about is Acavagnaro comment. .Comment was not overly political. I even agreed with alot of what he said. Giving large tax breaks to the rich to buy a Tesla. The G helping the rich.etc
I was working on a reply to Acavagnaro comment. Before koda went for the threads jugular.

Koda comment went straight for closeting the thread. He knew what he was doing. Talking about EV, hits a nerve for koda!

He also knows, no one will stop him for long. How easily it is for one member, to close down a thread. He attacks two of the moderators at least. Nothing really happens, so he pushes the limits of CO.rules.

And whines about it like a girly man! Even almost threating other members. Quote koda "I'm not a harmless man''.

At 65 years young, Habitual speedier, Revoked driver's license in three different states.Twice in NY state. After run-ins with Mob in NYC, Pagans, women husbands, boy friends and two sheriff from different counties you can have my address anytime!

2blu442

OK, I'm going to ask everyone to stop with the personal attacks. I don't want to hear who started it, but you all need to stop right now. I'm going to clean up the language in the posts a little and monitor to see if this continues or not.

John

no1oldsfan

Highway"star" you are being a dick. Take a breath.

oldcutlass

Thread closed