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No. Make sure your firing order is counter clockwise and number 1 is in the right spot. Make sure your point gap is right and not burned or is this the Accel electronic distributor?
1. Yes, there are cams that use a different firing order, usually swapping cylinders 4 and 7, so that the order changes from 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 to 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2.
Why someone would put such a cam, which is usually used only for racing, in a pickup truck engine is anyone's guess.
Did you use a timing light while cranking to get the timing into the ballpark?
You did put the wires in order in a COUNTER-clockwise direction around the distributor cap, right?
1. Yes, there are cams that use a different firing order, usually swapping cylinders 4 and 7, so that the order changes from 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 to 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2.
Why someone would put such a cam, which is usually used only for racing, in a pickup truck engine is anyone's guess.
Did you use a timing light while cranking to get the timing into the ballpark?
You did put the wires in order in a COUNTER-clockwise direction around the distributor cap, right?
- Eric
yes ccw , no light as there are no marks .im going to try the point style order then then altered cam order and see how that works
so when I got the car I didn't know anything about sbo engines so the fireing order wasn't on my radar I just know when I put a new battery and changed the plugs wires cap and rotor the trucjk ran ,albeit not great but I figured it was due to the old beat up 2bbl Rochester sooo I replaced the intake ,and carb and noticed the wacky fire order after I learned the sbo fire order so I took some pics of the firing order that came with the truck ,now mind you this truck had the accel electric distributor and accel super coil already installed when I got the truck ,any who the pic is lost and I cant remember the old fire order it came with so my questions were the fireing orders and learned that points style and non hei distrb run the #1 plug up front and hei distb have the #1 plug on the cap in back soo I got home today and tried them all out ..no start .it was spitting gas and occasional flame out the top of carb yesterday . so I get home today and try the different orders and now I'm getting sputtering and real back fire like out the tail pipe woohoo haha so that should mean a spark right? so then I take out the 1# plug bump it till compression and look at my rotor ...its pointing at #5 on the cap ????? but it ran before ??? so could I have messed the timing up even tho I never took the distributor out ??or moved it ? its not loose either sorry so long ,I was asking questions on anther thread and a wise sage suggested I update my own thread haha very wise thanks
Last edited by Beenz; December 1st, 2016 at 12:01 PM.
Reason: i ment the roto is pointing to #5 on the cap not 4
I moved all your posts from the other thread back here.
You need to start from scratch, go through the exercise of finding the #1 cylinder tdc. and see where the rotor is pointing. That will be where your number #1 wire currently should be plugged in on the cap. If its not in the correct position then you need to pull the distributor and turn the rotor to where you want it and then reinstall the distributor.
Note, the firing order is the same whether its an hei or a points distributor. The only difference between the 2 are where the number 1 wire goes. As Eric explained its because the pre-assembled wires that come in kits are all cut to specific lengths.
thank u for that old cutlass !so i took the distrb out rotated it to match the the #1and it fired up let run for 10 min ,low idle then died checked had a couple plug leaks on the intake ,got them tightend but still low idel ,then died tried to start again and back to backfire and what not ,then noticed the cheepo in line fuel filter that came with the edelbrock carb ripped in side the little cotton like filter was dangleing in side the clear plastic...so i assuming the carb has particles in it now ...what to do now
You can carefully take the top off the carb and see if any fibers made it into the bowl. If they did then you'll need to take the carb apart and blow out the passages. Also take the fuel line off the inlet of the carb and check for fibers in there.
thank u for that old cutlass !so i took the distrb out rotated it to match the the #1and it fired up let run for 10 min ,low idle then died checked had a couple plug leaks on the intake ,got them tightend but still low idel ,then died tried to start again and back to backfire and what not ,then noticed the cheepo in line fuel filter that came with the edelbrock carb ripped in side the little cotton like filter was dangleing in side the clear plastic...so i assuming the carb has particles in it now ...what to do now
so there was little black specs in that fuel filter that ripped from the tank or lines to pump and they are no longer in the filter so I know they are in the carb, I think it was gas sediment can that be cured with an additive or something rather than splitting the carb open? cant get the carb off tonight unfortunately
Just pull the carb, soak it, blow it out, and reassemble it.
Perfect time for a rebuild kit and a float.
- Eric
brand new carb , i should of began with the gas tank clean like i wnted to but i didnt ..literally 12 min of run time on the carb :/ so im not rebuilding or soaking i will tho check the floats if i indeed hve to crack it open
today in between rain storms I managed to take the carb off open it up .the bowl had no visible debris but the accelerator pump had some black specs so got it all cleaned and put back together ,cleaned the jets ,cleaned it all ,checked float level right at 7/16 ,had the carb on for 3 days and the dam gasket stuck to the intake ,so ill have to get a new gasket and clean the bottom of the carb and intake flange ..wish me luck ,hopefully tomorrow it will run smooth so I can tune the carb in and move on to the front suspension ....
I want to start today by thanking all who have been helping me ,your knowledge has been my saving grace thus far and I'm sure for the entire motor build ha . so carb cleaned, installed ,runs sounds like no fuel starve then hit gas and bog then die .. I'm thinking it has to be the fuel pressure ,its as far as I know a stock mechanical fuel pump for the 2bbl I was thinking that should be pushing 3 to 5 tops ..which would be good for the 1406 carb ..but all symptoms point to flood because eventually it wouldn't even fire ..and smelled gas ,no leaks anywhere either . so my question for today is whats a good regulator/gauge for a good price I'm only looking to pump 5.5 psi at most .. thanks
most vacuum gauges are also fuel pressure gauges also. You might T into the line (with clamps) and see what your current fuel pressure is before buying a regulator.
most vacuum gauges are also fuel pressure gauges also. You might T into the line (with clamps) and see what your current fuel pressure is before buying a regulator.
ill try that out ,but if it is too high, any recomondation on a regulator ?
I moved all your posts from the other thread back here.
You need to start from scratch, go through the exercise of finding the #1 cylinder tdc. and see where the rotor is pointing. That will be where your number #1 wire currently should be plugged in on the cap. If its not in the correct position then you need to pull the distributor and turn the rotor to where you want it and then reinstall the distributor.
so is it clockwise to retard and ccw to advance timing on Oldsmobile .also im running 10.1 compression where should my timing be at idel and at 3,000rpm ? thanks
Note, the firing order is the same whether its an hei or a points distributor. The only difference between the 2 are where the number 1 wire goes. As Eric explained its because the pre-assembled wires that come in kits are all cut to specific lengths.
so is it clockwise to retard and ccw to advance timing on Oldsmobile .also im running 10.1 compression where should my timing be at idel and at 3,000rpm ? thanks
Yes CW to advance timing. Ideally you want your total timing to be 34-36 @ 3000 rpm and then let your initial be what ever it is based on that, it will be somewhere between 14-21. If your running a stock style HEI your mechanical advance curve will probably stop somewhere between 3000- 4000 rpm. If you have a stockish engine thats fine. Then you want to limit your total with vacuum advance to around 50.
Yes CW to advance timing. Ideally you want your total timing to be 34-36 @ 3000 rpm and then let your initial be what ever it is based on that, it will be somewhere between 14-21. If your running a stock style HEI your mechanical advance curve will probably stop somewhere between 3000- 4000 rpm. If you have a stockish engine thats fine. Then you want to limit your total with vacuum advance to around 50.
not sure if I need the distributor hooked up to timed vacuum or not ,the vacuum advance was connected to the front of the stock 2bbl manifold .I have it on the timed vacuum on nipple on the carb is this wrong and what will happen from this ?
not sure if I need the distributor hooked up to timed vacuum or not ,the vacuum advance was connected to the front of the stock 2bbl manifold .I have it on the timed vacuum on nipple on the carb is this wrong and what will happen from this ?
Timed vacuum is a generic term for a vacuum source that is drawn from above the throttle plates at idle. This means that the vacuum signal will be near zero until the throttle is opened enough to uncover those ports, at which point it pretty much mimics manifold vacuum.
Timed vacuum is used for several reasons. It can control the time when an evap canister is purged, or when an EGR valve operates. When used to control vacuum advance (also called "ported vacuum") this signal results in no advance at idle and small throttle openings. This was done by the automakers primarily as an early form of NOx emission control at idle. Ported vacuum advance usually requires more initial timing to idle best. The downside is that the lack of advance at idle can cause overheating in traffic. Most cars that use ported vacuum for advance also have a thermal vacuum switch that will switch the vacuum advance over to full manifold vacuum if the engine starts to overheat. That begs the question, why bother with ported vacuum at all? Naturally, your initial timing and possibly even your total mechanical advance may need to be adjusted if currently set up for ported vacuum and you convert to manifold vacuum.
Timed vacuum is a generic term for a vacuum source that is drawn from above the throttle plates at idle. This means that the vacuum signal will be near zero until the throttle is opened enough to uncover those ports, at which point it pretty much mimics
Timed vacuum is used for several reasons. It can control the time when an evap canister is purged, or when an EGR valve operates. When used to control vacuum advance (also called "ported vacuum") this signal results in no advance at idle and small throttle openings. This was done by the automakers primarily as an early form of NOx emission control at idle. Ported vacuum advance usually requires more initial timing to idle best. The downside is that the lack of advance at idle can cause overheating in traffic. Most cars that use ported vacuum for advance also have a thermal vacuum switch that will switch the vacuum advance over to full manifold vacuum if the engine starts to overheat. That begs the question, why bother with ported vacuum at all? Naturally, your initial timing and possibly even your total mechanical advance may need to be adjusted if currently set up for ported vacuum and you convert to manifold vacuum.
since i dont have egr i should convert it back to full manifold vacuum and adjust the timing again ,that was very informational i will need to read it a few more times thanks
since i dont have egr i should convert it back to full manifold vacuum and adjust the timing again ,that was very informational i will need to read it a few more times thanks
The use of timed vacuum for operating the EGR or evap has nothing to do with the distributor. Those are simply other uses for timed vacuum.
Thanks for answering my pm that you are using an Accel points replacement and not an HEI, I'm posting what I sent you to the forum.
Disregard what I posted earlier, use the stock settings for your year engine distributor. I would use (you'll need a helper to put the trans in drive and apply the brake) 10* BTDC set with the engine running at 575rpm while in drive and the vacuum advance disconnected and line plugged. Once you are set, put the trans back in park and adjust your idle speed to 675 rpm, connect the vacuum advance to the ported/timed port on the carb.
Here is a link to the stock timing settings, I'm advancing what they call for 2* which worked well for my stuff : http://www.tpocr.com/olds1.html
ok so fuel pressure regulator plus adjusting the timing equals good running motor . still missing a smidge and my be running rich need to fine tune the mixtures . had to time by ear I sat quietly and listened to it for some time at idol and reved up then played with the dizzy turned it maybe close to 20 degrees counter clockwise from where it was yesterday at TDC made a huge difference. No fuel leaks,no coolant leaks that I can see or smell. Not sure exactly how to do a vacuum leak down test but ill will be reading about that tonight .
You need to get a timing light. You mean a compression leak down test?
how would i use one with no timing tab on the motor ? i want to see if i have any vacuum leaks in the carb or manifold i just installed . i hooked my vacuum gauge to the full time manifold vacuum port on carb .reading 16 wouldnt go much higher when idleling seems like it should go higher right ?
going to have to find tdc again and mark it better ..couldnt see the mark i crudly made . sucks i dont have a garage just a concrete slab to work in so i cant just run out and look .if i had a garage i dont think id come out ha
Ok, then you can use a dial back timing light based on that mark and get it in the ball park. Or you can do some measuring and mark the harmonic balance an go off of it combined with your mark on the engine with a regular timing light.
hey all, been a few since ive posted .I have been working on the trucks front suspension and steering . the motor is so much better ,has a slight bog and hard acceleration going to adjust tbe accel pump in carb and see if that works ,im redoing the valve covers and noticed a pit in a rod wondering if that is an issue ?
pit??
how do these look ? what can i tell from looking at this?
December 1st, 2016, 05:37 AM
