General Discussion Discuss your Oldsmobile or other car-related topics.

coupe vs hard top

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 1, 2016 | 05:47 AM
  #1  
Keysynth's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5
coupe vs hard top

I am trying to understand the difference between a "coupe" and a Hardtop. I have a 2 door 69 Cutlass S, non post. Any ideas?
Old Oct 1, 2016 | 06:02 AM
  #2  
MDchanic's Avatar
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,183
From: The Hudson Valley
"Coupe," from the French carrosse coupé, meaning "cut carriage," was a four-wheel enclosed carriage with room for two passengers, with a driver out front.
When applied to motorcars, it means a 2-door car with a fixed roof, usually with four seats, but possibly with two.

"Hardtop" is a term from the early 1950s, applied to cars with no window frames on the doors, whose windows come up unframed and mate directly against seals on the body, which therefore allows for the absence of a B-pillar.
The design is the same as that of a convertible, except with a fixed roof, thus the term "hardtop."

- Eric
Old Oct 1, 2016 | 06:07 AM
  #3  
oldcutlass's Avatar
Administrator
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 42,475
From: Poteau, Ok
I believe coupe and hardtop are 2 terms sometimes describing the same thing. Over the years, the description changed as manufacturing marketing played with the terms. For example the early hardtops could have been called pillarless sedans or convertible hardtops. A post car, can be a 2 door sedan or a 2 door post coupe. Over the years there were also 4 door hardtops, just to throw around another term.
Old Oct 1, 2016 | 06:16 AM
  #4  
MDchanic's Avatar
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,183
From: The Hudson Valley
A hardtop can be two or four doors. Oldsmobile's term for it is "Holiday."

A coupe must a non-convertible with be 2 doors (unless you're Mercedes-Benz in roughly 2005-2017).

- Eric
Old Oct 1, 2016 | 06:48 AM
  #5  
Keysynth's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5
Thanks for the info!! appreciate it!!!!
Old Oct 1, 2016 | 07:52 AM
  #6  
jaunty75's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 15,178
From: southeastern Michigan
"Hardtop" is actually short for "hardtop convertible." It specifically refers to a car with a fixed roof and no center pillar. Number of doors can be two or four.

In other words, it looks like a convertible, except it's not.
Old Oct 2, 2016 | 08:47 AM
  #7  
joe_padavano's Avatar
Old(s) Fart
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,770
From: Northern VA
To summarize:

Hardtop is a car without a "B" pillar and without metal frames around the door windows. Hardtops can be 2dr, 4dr, or even wagons (as in the 1957 Olds Fiesta wagons).



Despite what German automakers may claim, a Coupe is a two door body. You can have a hardtop coupe (Holiday Coupe in Oldsspeak) or a coupe with posts (Sport Coupe in Oldsspeak). Note that two door cars with a post are sometimes called a two door sedan.

Holiday Coupe:



Sport Coupe:

Old Oct 2, 2016 | 12:12 PM
  #8  
Koda's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12,767
From: Evansville, IN
Think that's a 57 Joe.
Old Oct 2, 2016 | 12:20 PM
  #9  
joe_padavano's Avatar
Old(s) Fart
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,770
From: Northern VA
Originally Posted by Koda
Think that's a 57 Joe.
@#&! fat fingers...
Old Oct 3, 2016 | 03:02 PM
  #10  
Diego's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,625
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Note that two door cars with a post are sometimes called a two door sedan.
Gonna open up a can of worms here, but I don't consider a 1969 Olds 4-4-2 Sports Coupe a two-door sedan - a post coupe and two-door sedan can't always be interchanged. To be the latter, it will have a different roofline than that of the hardtop.

For a Brand X comparison, here's two Plymouth Belvederes, one a two-door hardtop, the other a two-door sedan:





Old Oct 3, 2016 | 06:44 PM
  #11  
steverw's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,589
From: Texas
I had a 66 Impala Sport Coupe, it was a 2 door hard top.
Old Oct 4, 2016 | 05:29 AM
  #12  
joe_padavano's Avatar
Old(s) Fart
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,770
From: Northern VA
Originally Posted by Diego
Gonna open up a can of worms here, but I don't consider a 1969 Olds 4-4-2 Sports Coupe a two-door sedan - a post coupe and two-door sedan can't always be interchanged. To be the latter, it will have a different roofline than that of the hardtop.
Diego,

I'm talking about the general use of the term, not how one specific manufacturer used it (considering that German automakers use "coupe" to refer to four door cars ). If you look up dictionary definitions of coupe and sedan, the bottom line is that "coupe" is considered a subset of "sedans". A sedan can have two or four doors. A coupe has two doors. Both can carry at least four passengers. Some dictionaries go on to add that a coupe "usually has a sloping back". If you subscribe to that definition, then the 1964-67 A-body cars aren't technically coupes.

Bottom line is that this is in the same boat as defining "big block" and "small block". There is no legal definition.
Old Oct 4, 2016 | 07:21 AM
  #13  
Diego's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,625
Joe, that's not what I'm doing, which is why I made the can of worms reference.

Here's a Borgward two-door sedan and coupe:






Oldsmobile (and others) used the word "coupe" instead of sedan for the Sports Coupe with the B-pillar because they shared the same sleek roofline as the hardtop.

Of course, a Toronado is a proper coupe.
Old Oct 4, 2016 | 07:35 AM
  #14  
oldcutlass's Avatar
Administrator
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 42,475
From: Poteau, Ok
Originally Posted by Diego
Joe, that's not what I'm doing, which is why I made the can of worms reference.

Here's a Borgward two-door sedan and coupe:







Oldsmobile (and others) used the word "coupe" instead of sedan for the Sports Coupe with the B-pillar because they shared the same sleek roofline as the hardtop.

Of course, a Toronado is a proper coupe.
Small world, I'm working on a Borgward Isabella Coupe right now, I had never seen nor heard of this make until a few weeks ago. I think the terms are a gray area depending on your age and location. Kinda like the term classic, clone, and tribute.
Old Oct 4, 2016 | 07:37 AM
  #15  
MDchanic's Avatar
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,183
From: The Hudson Valley
If confining oneself to the strictest use of the term, I'm afraid that Diego's definition and illustrations are correct, and that, specifically, the terms "sedan" and "coupe" (and, probably, "fastback") are mutually exclusive.

I think the presence of an unconscious awareness of this is borne out in the fact that one hears far more reference to "two-doors" than to "coupes" in general conversation.

That being said, at this point the can is open and the worms are out, and we are now down to splitting hairs. I think we've answered the original question on the distinction between the terms "coupe" and "hardtop."

- Eric
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
johns72olds
Cars For Sale
11
Oct 2, 2016 11:47 AM
1962oldsguy
Cars For Sale
0
Dec 30, 2012 01:04 AM
cjprm
Interior/Upholstery
1
May 19, 2011 09:17 AM
1983oldsmobiledelta
Body work
12
Sep 19, 2010 07:15 PM
Buddy Leggett
Cars For Sale
1
Nov 16, 2003 01:35 PM




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:12 AM.