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I'm having an issue with my 1970 cutlass my cold start is fine but my hot start is driving me insane. My car was all fine and dandy before I let this shady mechanic touch it. Since getting my car back it overheated on me so I changed the thermostat, radiator cap, had radiator cleaned (rod service), Checked the water pump and added a fan shroud. Also hoses are new and not worn. Now that that's out the way. I just had the timing looked at and it was adjusted by a pro. The car runs fine until I really run it (give it a little gas) for about 20 minutes driving the around the streets. Then when I go to start it back it after driving it the engine will not turn over until the car cools. It no longer runs hot but now I'm stuck with this issue of hot starts. The last mechanic advised I change the starter and that should fix the issue. I saw the other forums on here regarding hot starts but not many were pointing at the starter. Any suggestions?
This issue comes up all the time. While it most certainly can be a weak solenoid or worn starter, most hot start issues are caused by other things. I'd check battery voltage, make sure the battery cable lugs and battery posts are clean, shiny and tight. Also check where the battery- cable bolts to the engine and check that the connections at the starter are not frayed and they are clean and tight.
This issue comes up all the time. While it most certainly can be a weak solenoid or worn starter, most hot start issues are caused by other things. I'd check battery voltage, make sure the battery cable lugs and battery posts are clean, shiny and tight. Also check where the battery- cable bolts to the engine and check that the connections at the starter are not frayed and they are clean and tight.
Thank you sir! I will try this weekend I have a neighbor who is a mechanic helping me out. What's crazy is yesterday I took her for a drive around the block and and she stopped on me. I let her rest for a few minutes and she wouldn't start. I took the top off of the air cleaner and she fired right up. So I drove her back home and let her run for 10 minutes, turned her off and she wouldn't start again. Took the top off the cleaner again and she fired right back up. Starting to wonder if my pcv valve is working. The air filter is new but I noticed the breather hose was pushed up against the air filter to the point it made an indention on the filter. I'm going to shorten the hose later and try to run her and see what she does. FYI I checked with a voltage meter when she wouldn't turn over this weekend and the readings were great. This is a brand new battery. I will however change the positive cable because it looks suspect. My negative cable is grounded to the alternator not sure if it goes there but that's where it was when i got the car. I have a feeling this is a simple issue. Just a long list of maybe's lol
Yes. To clarify, "won't turn over until the car cools" -- does this mean that the starter will not turn or that the car will not start?
And if the starter will not turn, does the solenoid click? Does the starter "try" to turn but bog down?
Starter unable to turn engine after a tune-up which made the engine run great sounds like timing advanced far enough to present increased cranking resistance, which, if the timing is correct, may mean that you have the wrong starter (undersized, for a lower displacement and/or compression) or that the starter is being deprived of adequate current due to poor connections.
Yes. To clarify, "won't turn over until the car cools" -- does this mean that the starter will not turn or that the car will not start?
And if the starter will not turn, does the solenoid click? Does the starter "try" to turn but bog down?
Starter unable to turn engine after a tune-up which made the engine run great sounds like timing advanced far enough to present increased cranking resistance, which, if the timing is correct, may mean that you have the wrong starter (undersized, for a lower displacement and/or compression) or that the starter is being deprived of adequate current due to poor connections.
More information, please.
- Eric
I'm new at this but here a youtube video you tell me. The 1st crank is what it does after about 20 minutes of driving It usually takes a while to cool before cranking. This time it fired up but I only had it running for 15 minutes. FYI I had someone run new lines to from tank to fuel pump and they bypassed the separator near the gas tank. I'm wondering if it's a vapor lock due to fuel boiling. I'm not sure if I have a return line. I'm going to get under the car today and take pics. Video link is below.
So the engine is cranking but won't fire when hot?
You tell me. The 1st crank is what it does after 20 minutes of driving. I only had it started for about 15 minutes at low idle and drove around the apts. This time it started on the 2nd crank which is rare.
Your starter motor is turning fast enough (a bit faster might be better, but that's not bad), your starter solenoid is working fine, your starter wires and connections are all good, and your car is cranking like a champ.
Also, it doesn't sound as though the timing is too far advanced.
So, when you try to start it hot, what are you doing with the gas pedal?
And, have you taken off the air cleaner when it is hot and won't start and looked into the carburetor while pumping the throttle, to see whether you have two strong streams of fuel from the accelerator pump nozzles, indicating a good fuel supply, or not, indicating a lack of fuel?
And, have you checked for spark when it cranks but doesn't start?
Your starter motor is turning fast enough (a bit faster might be better, but that's not bad), your starter solenoid is working fine, your starter wires and connections are all good, and your car is cranking like a champ.
Also, it doesn't sound as though the timing is too far advanced.
So, when you try to start it hot, what are you doing with the gas pedal?
And, have you taken off the air cleaner when it is hot and won't start and looked into the carburetor while pumping the throttle, to see whether you have two strong streams of fuel from the accelerator pump nozzles, indicating a good fuel supply, or not, indicating a lack of fuel?
And, have you checked for spark when it cranks but doesn't start?
- Eric
I pump the gas and it still doesn't start. It will just keep trying but never start up. I check the battery and alternator when it will not start but not the spark plugs. I plan on doing so this weekend when my neighbor (mechanic) helps me take a look at the issue. As I explained yesterday the car did what it does on the 1st crank and would not start so I took the air cleaner top off and it started right up. I tried that 2 times and it worked both times. Could of been my lucky day. I will try later and make a video when it happens again. The problem is it's only me until the weekend. FYI I hive in Houston it's been 97+ humidity so like 100+ I also want to burn all the ethanol gas out the car. I found a non ethanol station near me. Will update you guys later if I can get a hand
When hot, a carbureted car will likely need one of three things fuel-wise:
1. Nothing. Turn key and it starts instantly.
2. More fuel. Maybe the fuel in the float bowl evaporated. Maybe it's got some vapor lock.
Solution is usually to pump it a bunch of times to get a bit of fuel into the manifold, either while cranking or immediately before.
3. Less fuel (flooded). Maybe some extra fuel boiled out of the carburetor and dripped into the manifold. Maybe it's just that way. Whatever.
Solution is to press pedal to the floor and hold it there, then get to crankin'.
Do not move pedal.
Crank until it starts.
One of these will be your normal hot-start condition. Once you know what it is, you will be able to start your car every time (provided the problem isn't spark, that is).
Next time you go to start with the engine hot, just push and hold the gas pedal about a 1/3 of the way to the floor and then turn the key. Do not pump the gas pedal.
Going to take a look today at the spark plugs when it's hot. This is the configuration I was telling you guys about that prevents hot starts. When my car was configured like this I had no issues with hot starts. The 1st mechanic that worked on my car capped off the most of the lines and ran the main and return line from tank to pump. Eliminating the canister line. I PROMISE I had no issues before that was done. I was reading up on this below. FYI the car came from CA so I know their emission rules are different lol. Interesting Read on the issue below.
I don't know if the tank is vented. I'll check the cap (or is there a better way)
No but I read that in my service manual. It's on my list today.
1: Change Starter\Battery cable
2: Check spark while hot
3: Listen for Woosh
4: Check gas tank configuration
5: Change pcv valve
6: Burn most of the bad gas (ethanol) of of my car
7: Check to see if carb is getting fuel.
8: Die in the sun lol
No need to change that cable - your starter is working fine.
And don't get wrapped up in that gasoline - it works fine for most people's cars, it's not likely the cause of your problem.
Focus on the most important things first.
- Eric
Took her around the block and drove her hard today for at 10-15 minutes. Did the petal 3/4 down and she fired right up. I also changed the pcv valve (it was filled with oil) and adjusted the breather hose (it was pinched) One last question is it takes a while to idle when started i just have to hit the petal for a minute or so until the idle sets in. Is that normal? Also I have a huge hole in my muffler so if i lightly hit the petal (mostly when I 1st start it) it can stall out sometimes even cut off. Is the muffler the issue?
I had the carb rebuilt twice and I also had the timing adjusted. Everyone tells me that it just needs to warm up. I'm not sure about the float level nor needle and seat. I took it to a specialist and they said it starts slow but after that it is fine
History: I got this car from my grandpa in CA. I had it shipped from him, who had it setting in a garage for 6 years. Here is what i fixed so far.
1: battery
2: tune up (spark plugs, oil change, fluids)
3: fuel lines replaced (rubber hoses)
4: Carb rebuilt x 2
5: timing adjusted
6: pcv valve
7: Master cylinder and booster
8: headlight switch
9: replaced all light bulbs (inside and out)
10: thermostat
11: radiator cleaned and rebuilt
12: Gas tank cleaned and new sock installed
13: fuel pump replaced
I say trick because when I 1st got this car it did not do this at all. You turn the key and it started up. Hell at times I didn't even need to pump the gas. On Hot and cold start. It's not until I started get other issues resolved that i had problems with hot starts.
So, what is the timing set to, and what kid of distributor do you have? Points? HEI?
If points, have you verified the dwell angle at 30°?
You say this problem occurs on hot start in the summer, in Texas, so, obviously, the doesn't have to "warm up."
Who rebuilt the carb? In general, don't trust them. You should re-do it yourself.
Is the choke completely open when warmed up?
You don't mention the points and condenser being changed or at least checked and confirmed good.
Originally Posted by ddunmore81
... when I 1st got this car it did not do this at all. You turn the key and it started up. Hell at times I didn't even need to pump the gas. On Hot and cold start. It's not until I started get other issues resolved that i had problems with hot starts.
So, did anything specific change right before this hot start problem began?
Not sure on the distributor its whatever came on the car when i got it. Is there a certain brand I should look into?
I personally never rebuilt a carb so there is that (I have the service manual now though)
Choke is open once warmed
never had points or condenser checked. (will look into that)
The only thing that changed was the timing, fuel pump, fuel lines and their configuration.
Since then I had the timing adjust by someone who knew what they were doing. Plus this shop had 2 mechanic with 60 years of experience with carburetor cars. I never asked the angle. Didn't think it was relevant for me to know. I'll swing by and have them tell me.
What was the reason for rebuilding the carb twice? If someone did something wrong the first time, then maybe something was done wrong the second time as well.
Not sure on the distributor its whatever came on the car when i got it. Is there a certain brand I should look into?
Never mind. Looks like it's an original points distributor.
No particular brand, but we need to know what you have, so we can give you the right advice.
Originally Posted by ddunmore81
I personally never rebuilt a carb so there is that (I have the service manual now though)
There's no time to learn like the present.
Originally Posted by ddunmore81
Choke is open once warmed
Good.
Originally Posted by ddunmore81
... this shop had 2 mechanic with 60 years of experience with carburetor cars. I never asked the angle. Didn't think it was relevant for me to know. I'll swing by and have them tell me.
That would help. I have no faith in my fellow man.
Originally Posted by Fun71
What was the reason for rebuilding the carb twice? If someone did something wrong the first time, then maybe something was done wrong the second time as well.
What was the reason for rebuilding the carb twice? If someone did something wrong the first time, then maybe something was done wrong the second time as well.
Okay so I was having the fuel issues at 1st when i had the car shipped. notice my profile pic is when I got the car shipped. Well I had to take it to the shop or pay more money to tow it home. (Truck too big for my street) Anyhow since it was in the garage for 6 years 1st thing we did was tune it up, rebuild the carb, and she was ready to go. So we thought. After the gas got low the car cutoff on my way home so I filled it back up and the car started once more. Took the car back to the shop this time free of charged for the fuel issue. He dropped the tank, changed the sock, rebuilt the carb again, changed the fuel pump (I had a new one on already) and come to find out it was a hole in the gas line making it lose compression. That's where the hoses came in at because it's a pain to lift the frame and install metal lines. This is when the timing was "tweaked" as well because it was pinging. Which I knew before I took it in.
So on the way home this time the car overheats so I jumped off the freeway and let it cool for an hour. I had the hot start issue that I know of since this day. I then had the radiator serviced, got rid of the reserve tank and installed a new one, installed a fan shroud, replaced the fan belt, he came out and replaced the thermostat (with a 195 with holes drilled in it)
My overheating issue has been resolved (at least at low speeds haven't been on the freeway yet)
For a 2nd opinion I took the car to a shop that had some older gents that know carburetors to get a diagnostic done to see what else I needed done and if the carb was fine. They then changed my thermostat to a 160 and adjust the timing. Of course the car never gave them any issues as far as hot starts go. The only advice was to get a higher amp starter at some point.
Last edited by ddunmore81; August 11th, 2016 at 12:08 PM.
When I drove the car home the 1st time it was a few weeks before I took it back to the shop as it was 30 mins from my house. So I drove the car everyday just to break things in more since it had such a long vacation. I would fill it up every few days so I wouldn't have any issues. Some days I would go out put the key in the car and she fired right up. On other days I had to wrestle with car by pouring gas in the carb that was days when i knew it needed gas I would fill it up and issue went away. during these day I had it I would drive it hard at times testing the limits. The timing was off cause I could feel what felt like a misfire. Took the car home, cut her off and she fired back up just like that. If I have to put a foot on the petal to start it from now on screw it so be it lol
I will say i did have a higher idle before I got the timing adjusted.
Last edited by ddunmore81; August 11th, 2016 at 12:11 PM.
I will say i did have a higher idle before I got the timing adjusted.
Decreasing the initial timing would cause the idle speed to go down. You can increase the idle speed by simply turning the idle speed adjustment screw on the side of the carb.
So the newly-rebuilt carburetor was rebuilt because a rusted fuel line was misdiagnosed as a carburetor problem, and the car became hard to start after someone adjusted the timing, since which time someone else has adjusted the timing again.
And the person who rebuilt the carb and did the first timing adjustment also replaced your metal fuel lines all along the frame with rubber hose.
I think you need to learn how to work on your car pretty quickly, before the people who are "fixing" it fix it for good.
BY the way, is this a high compression or low compression 350?
So the newly-rebuilt carburetor was rebuilt because a rusted fuel line was misdiagnosed as a carburetor problem, and the car became hard to start after someone adjusted the timing, since which time someone else has adjusted the timing again.
And the person who rebuilt the carb and did the first timing adjustment also replaced your metal fuel lines all along the frame with rubber hose.
I think you need to learn how to work on your car pretty quickly, before the people who are "fixing" it fix it for good.
BY the way, is this a high compression or low compression 350?
- Eric
Right Eric lol I don't have the space at the moment. I live in apts. I'm learning as I go.
Right Eric lol I don't have the space at the moment. I live in apts. I'm learning as I go.
Fun71 I will try to play with it.
You are in the right place if you want to learn stuff about your car. I never try to give advice here because I am still learning, just like you. These guys know the answers to any question, though.
Just so you know, I rebuilt my first Quadrajet (with lots of help from these guys) in a tiny room using egg crates to keep all the parts separate. I took lots of pictures and learned so much about it by asking questions here. Now I've rebuilt 8 different ones for myself and friends in my car club, etc. Just my 2 cents, though.
One thing I learned about messing with that idle screw... The engine's gotta be at least kinda warm and the choke off. There's a separate "high idle" screw for when the choke is on.
Hang in there and these guys will get you going in the right direction.
Last edited by Mark71; August 11th, 2016 at 02:12 PM.
Ok i don't have that screw well not in that location. Here are a few pictures of my carb. I took the air cleaner off and found a plug disconnected. I connected it. I also noticed my carb stays open a little bit from the looks of it it seems the screw can be adjusted to close it correct? Does it matter that it does not close all the way when cold? I did notice it open all the way up as the car warmed up. Which screw is for the idle adjustment?
right side of carb
Not sure what this does but it was not connected
This was unplugged when i took off the air cleaner.
Well I never asked what carb you have. I posted a picture of a QuadraJet 4 barrel carb and you have a 2 barrel carb.
The vertical screw in your first picture is the idle speed adjustment.
The air valve (choke valve) on top of the carb doesn't always close fully, especially during the warm summer temps. When the choke is "closed" the air valve has to be open some so that air can enter.
Last edited by Fun71; August 13th, 2016 at 01:01 PM.
The screw on the right is your idle speed adjustment. The one on the left is the stepped cold idle cam that is operated by the choke. Your choke will be open about 1/16th of an inch on a very cold start once you press the gas pedal down to activate it.
Thanks guys, I just did some adjustments and it sounds and runs great!!! Cold start just needed a reeve and the idle was great. Now I need to get these speedometer teeth installed and muffler done and my Sunday driver will be stable for now! I still have an annoying screech from my alternator pulley when accelerating but I will get that handled in due time
Replace if bad or tighten the belt for the alternator.
The belt is brand new. I'm thinking its the pulley. I had the belt jump off when i got the car so I changed it and had the alternator\pulley adjusted (it wasn't aligned straight) The Belt or pulley was screeching before and after belt change and adjustment. I can say after the work I have done it has not jumped off and the noise is a lot quieter. I have to really troubleshoot to see if its the actual pulley or the smaller pulley on the alternator.
August 5th, 2016, 01:22 PM
