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Hey gang, I've always gotten great feedback on here and so I'm reaching out to ask for some advice regarding my friend's 98.
Long story short, my friend has had his '76 98 Regency coupe since '77. He is disabled and relies on others to tackle work on his car and his many other projects. I have spent quite some time working on his 98 over the 20 + years that I've known him. His car is currently in my garage with a laundry list of to-do's. As I already knew, his car has major rust issues but I'm only now seeing the severity of things.
As you'll see in the pics, the frame is heavily rusted. Even the rear frame cross member rotted and broke off years ago. The body mounts are completely deteriorated and even the radiator support has major rot issues. Another Olds friend (with 98's) and I have already come up with a solution but I want to hear some other thoughts before I discuss this with the car's owner.
Please look over the pictures and let me know your thoughts. I appreciate any and all input.
Every car has its time, and I think that time has been reached for this one. As cool as it is that he's owned it since it was one year old, it is so heavily rusted in very important places that, if it were up to me, I'd sell it to a junkyard and get him another '76 in better condition. They're out there, and the cost would probably be less than what it would take to bring this one to an acceptable condition.
Not very long from now there will be a shell of paint left where this car is parked. It is slowly returning to mother earth. I agree with Jaunty, its time to find another.
I see heavy rust but not really much rot thru on the frame. I see floors have been patched. If the frame is rotting, scale flakes falling off, weak spots or holes then yes its shot. If its just heavy rust with pitting then its not so bad. If the list of other repairs beside the failing frame its time to move on...
I see heavy rust but not really much rot thru on the frame. I see floors have been patched. If the frame is rotting, scale flakes falling off, weak spots or holes then yes its shot. If its just heavy rust with pitting then its not so bad. If the list of other repairs beside the failing frame its time to move on...
If you look at the first picture, there is a significant crack in the frame. This spot is essentially below the firewall where I'm sure there is already plenty of stress from the weight of the motor pulling the frame down and then flexing from driving. I can take more pictures to show some other areas of concern but from what I've seen, the control arm mounts even look scaled and weak. I am concerned that a pothole in this car's future could spell disaster. I can't imagine how catastrophic it would be if a control arm gave way or if the frame snapped while driving. I'll post more pics to give a better view of what I'm seeing.
So what's YOUR solution? You said at the top that you and a friend have "come up with a solution." So what is it? Unless it's to take the usable parts off of this car and use them to restore another 98, I can't imagine what it would be.
You're right. One good pothole and this car could collapse. You've shown us the rust that can be seen. How much can't be seen? It does not look safe to drive, and anything that can be done to fix it is certainly going to be labor and money intensive, and with better-condition '76 98's out there, why bother? Sentiment is sentiment, but it only goes so far. Your friend can take comfort in the fact that the newly-restored 98 he's driving contains parts from his much-beloved old one.
Well, you guys are supporting what I was already thinking. The car is too far gone and it's not salvageable with the level of rot in the structural areas. The fact that a cross member literally rotted away and broke off the car tells me that the current rot and breaks in the frame are just a disaster waiting to happen. I can even get him a good original frame but the body would never be able to support itself to lift it off the frame, plus all of the body bolts would snap and the mounts are completely destroyed already.
I agree that it's not worth putting any money or time into this 98 anymore. It had a great run and I know it's a very special car to him but there's a time when you have to be realistic and know when to stop. Putting people at risk is never worth any sentimental value.
I will have to have a difficult conversation with my friend and advise that he seriously consider finding another, solid car that can be use to recreate his car. Combined with the MANY repairs have been horribly rigged over the years, the condition of the car is just too far gone. My time is very limited and since I tend to be the sole caretaker of his car, I just can't see spending any more of our limited time and money on a car that will never really get any better.
Now if anybody wants to help me convince my friend to do a swap, that will be the biggest challenge!
Thanks for the input guys.
Last edited by 76 Regency; August 9th, 2016 at 08:32 AM.
All sounds good. Does his car have anything salvageable to use in the restoration of another car? Bumpers? Armrests? Steering wheel?
In my honest opinion, there's not much. Some of the body panels are still good (already been replaced). The bumpers are ok, the steering wheel is MINT which I gave him from a parts car years ago (a car that would have been a PERFECT candidate for a swap mind you!). Other than that, there's slim pickings as far what to keep. The motor runs well (they usually do) but has over 200K on it so it's spare parts or a future rebuild or even an item to sell to help fund the restoration/swap.
I've had a load of parts cars over the years and this car is in worse condition than most of them. Luckily for him, his car's color combination was fairly common so we may just get lucky and find one like his that will make for a fairly simple swap.
Any chance you could post a photo of the entire car? After all this description from you, I've got kind of a morbid curiosity to see just what this thing looks like from 20 feet away.
I agree with Joe that the frame rust in the pictures does not appear fatal, but it's clear that the car is rusty as heck, and those cracks need to be fixed.
The rear crossmember is not a vital part, and is fairly thin and in a place that's heavily affected by salt, so in and of itself, that doesn't completely freak me out.
Overall I would agree that the car is on its way out, though I don't think it's quite there yet.
It is definitely a car that I would avoid sinking any real money or time into, as it will be like shoveling cash off pier. I wouldn't consider "restoring" it.
Ideally, you may be able to find a desert car with a sun-burned interior, bring it up, and swap out the various parts, and have a car that'll be good for another 30 years.
Wow, it doesn't look too bad at all in that photo. I never would have guessed that it has all the rust issues it does.
I know...keep in mind that pretty much every panel on this car has been replaced over time so it appears ok for the most part which I think is part of why my friend is a bit blind to the reality of what the exterior is being supported by.
Originally Posted by MDchanic
Overall I would agree that the car is on its way out, though I don't think it's quite there yet.
It is definitely a car that I would avoid sinking any real money or time into, as it will be like shoveling cash off pier. I wouldn't consider "restoring" it.
Ideally, you may be able to find a desert car with a sun-burned interior, bring it up, and swap out the various parts, and have a car that'll be good for another 30 years.
- Eric
I agree, it's not like it needs to be sent to the crusher urgently but it's time has passed and another car is the way to move forward.
Not to sound crass, but what's the life expectancy of the owner?
We've all had "car friends" who were considerably older than we were (my father used to help an 85 year old guy tune up his motorcycle every year - he couldn't ride it anymore, but he still took care of it), and if the gentleman in question is well on in years, the best thing may be to consider the car's and owner's expiration dates as roughly the same and just do what you can do to keep the car going, rather than to create a car that will long-outlast its owner.
Not to sound crass, but what's the life expectancy of the owner?
- Eric
That is a totally valid question. He is in his mid 50's I believe so he'll be around for a while I hope. At this point, if he agrees to start with another car, that search could take a while, especially if we try to find matching colors. Then the swap will take some time but at least within a reasonable amount of time, he would have a great car instead of one that is never going to be what he is hoping it will be. Since he's had his since practically brand new, it would do him good to drive one that felt the way his did back then. A low mileage car would be a night and day difference here.
Sadly, as I mentioned before, I had an excellent candidate that I sold him years ago and he was considering the swap then. It was the exact colors as his car and the interior was excellent, much better than his. The car sat in his yard for a long time and started to rust out. I ended up buying it back and using it for parts. It was a complete shame. I drove it home from Pennsylvania and the car ran and drove amazingly well. It was hard for me to cut it up but it made a great parts car in the end.
I just hope that showing him the present state of his car in detail will help sell the swap idea and prevent another missed opportunity like that last one.
John, would your friend consider a 69 98? I saw where quaddriver had one that was missing it's drive train. No idea of the shape, 2 or 4 dr. or anything about it. It may be halfway across the country too. Just a thought.
John, would your friend consider a 69 98? I saw where quaddriver had one that was missing it's drive train. No idea of the shape, 2 or 4 dr. or anything about it. It may be halfway across the country too. Just a thought.
Hi, thanks for the idea but I promise the only way this would ever work with my friend is if we can recreate his car down to the options
I will not even mention the '69 to him because knowing him, he would want to rescue it and add it to a list of cars he already has and doesn't need lol.
Have you tapped the areas of concern with a ball peen hammer to see how punky the frame is? It does look as thou it has lost the first layer of metal (skin) so we call it in the stamping/machining world, which does hold strength believe it or not.
Hopefully your friend can keep it on the road until you find him a replacement. I'm sure its hard for your friend to look at how nice your car is and feel as thou he could save his since he already owns it.
Tough decisions when someone gets really attached to their car.
I hope you can convince him to get another.
Eric
Last edited by 76olds; August 9th, 2016 at 02:54 PM.
In case anyone is looking this ad today from a DVOC contact.
Sad to say I have to sell my 1976 Olds Ninety Eight LS Coupe.It has 38,000 original miles,is white with a red interior and red vinyl half top.The only modification is dual exhaust.I'm asking $3995. and can be reached by email (pinetop59@yahoo.com) or phone 856-297-8317.
Mike Palmer
Location: I moved to pittsburgh so I can be near Primantis
Posts: 405
back in the day (1970's are the day) it was not unheard of to replace the frame...lord knows Ive done my share. Give ole arizona steve a call and see what he can drag back from out west (everyone knows him from the carlisle shows) unless its a freshly painted bondo bucket, that car has some decent panels hanging on it....
ps - in case you dont know him, pm for his number, he is heading west in 2 weeks to restock
Have you tapped the areas of concern with a ball peen hammer to see how punky the frame is? I'm sure its hard for your friend to look at how nice your car is and feel as thou he could save his since he already owns it. Tough decisions when someone gets really attached to their car.
I hope you can convince him to get another.
Eric
Hey Eric,
I haven't done the tap test but in my opinion, there's no need and I'd be afraid to cause more damage. The rust is so heavy and with severe breaks in the frame already, I've ruled the frame to be too far gone. I'd like to think that driving my friend home in my red 98 which runs and drives very well, has cold A/C and is a solid, mostly original car will sink into his head a bit and make him realize that no amount of repairs and patches are going to make his car what it was in its prime.
Originally Posted by Oldsmaniac
In case anyone is looking this ad today from a DVOC contact.
Sad to say I have to sell my 1976 Olds Ninety Eight LS Coupe.It has 38,000 original miles,is white with a red interior and red vinyl half top.The only modification is dual exhaust.I'm asking $3995. and can be reached by email (pinetop59@yahoo.com) or phone 856-297-8317.
Mike Palmer
Hey, thanks for listing this! I actually was just forwarded this same email from another 98 friend. I just emailed Mike about the LS so we'll see. A blue Regency would make for a much easier convincing and even easier swap but a solid original car with low miles is hard to pass up on, especially when the alternative is a rotted 200K relic of its former self.
Originally Posted by quaddriver
back in the day (1970's are the day) it was not unheard of to replace the frame...lord knows Ive done my share. Give ole arizona steve a call and see what he can drag back from out west (everyone knows him from the carlisle shows) unless its a freshly painted bondo bucket, that car has some decent panels hanging on it....
ps - in case you dont know him, pm for his number, he is heading west in 2 weeks to restock
Thanks quad! I do not know Arizona Steve so please let me know his member name on here (or is it Arizona steve?) I'm assuming he's on the east coast and makes runs out west for cars and parts? That sounds like a great guy to know!
A frame swap is out of the question. The structure of the body is weak as well and most, if not all of the bolts would surely snap. The body mounts are completely destroyed and it is way too involved of a project to take on when the owner is unable to do any of the work himself. I can actually even get him a good frame for free from a friend but it's not really an option.
As for the panels, a fair amount of them would be useable as spares. Every panel on the car has been replaced over the years except for the roof which has a terrible after market sunroof in it. I would be happy to pull all of the good parts off of his car to use in the swap and/or keep as spares.
Last night I let the cat out of the bag and replied to my friend's text just saying that we really need to talk about his car's future. I haven't gotten a response yet so hopefully he's starting to think about it a bit. We've had the talk in the past but now that the car is sitting in my own garage and I've had time to see it more closely, I've confirmed what I had already been thinking that it's time to move on.
Maybe this pic will help give everyone a better idea of what we're dealing with.
No, it's not the Titanic, this is the rear of the frame on the blue 98. You can see where the crossmember gave way years ago and it looks like it took a chunk of the adjoining section of frame rail with it. The body mount looks like it is just floating there and there is no structural integrity whatsoever. As I mentioned in another post this morning, my friend has agreed to find a clone of his car and agreed that this one is just too far gone.
Buh-Bye. That car'll do the job until you find a replacement, but it's fate is sealed.
- Eric
Thanks Eric. I agree. I just hope he takes my advice and keeps any driving to be VERY limited. I am really afraid that one good-sized pothole will just snap what's left of the frame and cause a disaster.
August 8th, 2016, 08:18 AM
