Chevy LS3 Intake Mates with a Rocket
#3
Very cool. How close is the matchup of the runners with the ports in the heads?
I've seen an LS-series ram intake used on a BB Chrysler like this. It fit very nicely. The builder simply ordered the intake from E-brock without the bolt holes drilled.
I've seen an LS-series ram intake used on a BB Chrysler like this. It fit very nicely. The builder simply ordered the intake from E-brock without the bolt holes drilled.
#4
The Wenzler heads are pretty close to lining up to the intake runners I have been told. I have not seen the setup in person. My friend is in Cape Cod and me in NJ. He is working with Sam Murray on this. I imagine if he can get the setup to work it would be beneficial to HP/flow and modern technology/injection with computerized control. Should any updates be had I will post. I would like to see success with this!
#7
#8
Here is what Sam posted about the heads..
"LS3 meet big block Olds! New Meets Old, prototype mock up of an LS3 fuel injection manifold to Wentzler Olds heads. Amazing how close everything is including the injectors. We are going to use the same rubber seals the manifold uses on the bottom of the adapters as well! NO gaskets SWEET! This will keep the car stealth for sure!"
"LS3 meet big block Olds! New Meets Old, prototype mock up of an LS3 fuel injection manifold to Wentzler Olds heads. Amazing how close everything is including the injectors. We are going to use the same rubber seals the manifold uses on the bottom of the adapters as well! NO gaskets SWEET! This will keep the car stealth for sure!"
#10
Any other details, type of EFI, ignition control, etc?
BTW, the LS3 intake might get a bit restricted for 500hp+.
It is kinda odd how this stuff lines up. The 351 Cleveland exhaust is almost a perfect fit for an LS1 motor.
BTW, the LS3 intake might get a bit restricted for 500hp+.
It is kinda odd how this stuff lines up. The 351 Cleveland exhaust is almost a perfect fit for an LS1 motor.
#16
#19
LS3s and Chrysler hemis don't have their intake and exhaust ports next to each other. What he's trying to do doesn't make much sense with a manifold designed for evenly-spaced porting. He'd have to find a tarantula designed to line up close to the setup he's got, if one even exists
#20
#22
Why? The intake and exhaust port locations at the manifold flanges are completely unrelated. The intakes require a custom intake manifold, that Wenzler also sells. The exhaust port configuration was kept close to stock to allow existing Olds headers to be used.
#23
That's a first. Up until now, every other modern engine made was either equally-distanced ported or near-siamesed. He's going to end up with a head running with a fever around the exhaust ports. A healthy cylinder head should distribute heat evenly
Last edited by Killian_Mörder; February 27th, 2014 at 01:40 PM.
#24
If the exhaust configuration changed they would maybe have sold 5 sets of heads for the people that wanted to get custom headers... nobody has reported temperature issues to date. If you wanted a modern engine, Olds isn't the place to look...
#26
One of the most important drivers on port layout is fitting the ports between the head bolts and pushrods. On a carbureted V-engine, the need for an exhaust crossover port complicates this layout, which is why most V8 engines that ever used a carb have siamesed intake ports. Newer engines that were only produced with EFI (the LS family and the new Hemi, for example) don't need carb heat, so there's more flexibility to locate the ports. The Wenzler heads also deleted the exhaust crossover, so that's why they were able to use the equally spaced intake ports. As noted, while a different exhaust port location would have been preferred, a head that required custom-built headers for every application would have had a very limited market. This is a case of balancing practicality with the ideal design.
#27
The idea of modernizing an older engine with state-of-the-art technology is great. My only beef is in doing it with compromizes. As complicated as it is to produce new head castings for engines which will not increase in number is financially extreme risky, given that the manufacturer gains windfall only through increased sales. On the other hand, casting exhaust manifolds is much simpler and Ford did so (pictured below), in order to go nearly all the way. That's why I think this head caster should have produced the heads with matching intake as well as exhaust ports and should have offered matching exhaust manifolds, instead of going through all the trouble of restricting the whole set-up, by piping the exhaust into stock outlets
In fact, because of thermal regularities found in even normal set-ups, research has been undertaken for using induction air in cooling areas affected by exhaust heat: http://www.ecv1.com/e-motore.htm
...A cross-flow cyl-head has a cold (intake) and hot (exhaust) side, creating possible thermal expansion deformation and increased risk of local hot-spots causing detonation and cooling difficulties. The Triflux head has a more linear temperature distribution...
Last edited by Killian_Mörder; March 1st, 2014 at 02:45 PM.
#28
How a turbocharged DOHC engine applies to this discussion is a mystery to me. Obviously without the need to accommodate pushrods, it's much easier to lay out idealized ports. Of course, you could always run the pushrods directly THROUGH the intake ports, like the Ford Tunnelport FE motors.
#29
The ones which are the topic of this thread might hold out a drag race or low cruising speeds (55 m.p.h.). But, I'd like to see them used on long stretches of the Autobahn, where there are no speed limits, to see if they don't warp.
In any event, using a high performance intake of this type somehow seems awkward, when designing the heads for stock manifolds. Any restriction of this type somehow defeats the purpose of going through all that trouble in the first place
#30
In any event, using a high performance intake of this type somehow seems awkward, when designing the heads for stock manifolds. Any restriction of this type somehow defeats the purpose of going through all that trouble in the first place
#31
The LS3 to OLDS manifold adaptor would be a perfect project for a 3D printer. Make the initial adaptor out of wood, transfer all dimensions to a CAD program and print it out using plastic or powdered aluminum. I'd love to see it done!!
#32
Last edited by Killian_Mörder; March 3rd, 2014 at 10:38 AM.
#33
It dosent look like there are provisions for the water passages? Where wil the radiator hose attach?if milled from aluminum, the spacer will have to include a cross over for the fron and rear with some kind of adaptor for the thermostat and hose at the front. I cant wait to see the finished install.
#34
RR / Wenzler Heads
I have the RR / Wenzler heads on my car and have found no issues with warping due to heat issues around the exhaust port. There are many of these being used on Jet Boat applications as well. You can't get a more constant high load than running across a lake for 30 min. at a time at 5500rpm. These heads also have an excellent flowing exhaust port as well. I think our German friend is thinking this to death. Must be an Engineer .
#40
I think there are some valid points discussed here, and some very intelligent members involved in the debate/conversation. As for Sam.....he is a ROCKET SCIENTIST you know?!? Just check the NHRA record books.