Header choice - '70 442 - hooker super comp 1 3/4 ? - ClassicOldsmobile.com

Go Back  ClassicOldsmobile.com > Repair & Restoration > Racing and High Performance
Header choice - '70 442 - hooker super comp 1 3/4 ? >

Header choice - '70 442 - hooker super comp 1 3/4 ?

Header choice - '70 442 - hooker super comp 1 3/4 ?

Old December 13th, 2016, 12:04 PM
  #1  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
High 11s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Romeo, Michigan
Posts: 28
Header choice - '70 442 - hooker super comp 1 3/4 ?

As you know I am working away to get our 442 a little faster! Per my previous post and your advice - headers are next.

I am thinking hooker super comp with 1 3/4 primary's, PN 3101. Long term I plan for good aluminum heads and hydraulic roller cam. 500hp range appears possible based on what I have read.

Again in need of your experienced advice.

What is/are the preferred header choice(s) for the 442? Our car is an factory AC/ TH400 trans car.

In the past (on Chevy projects) I always preferred hooker super comps. I see also hooker has a comp version (PN3902) - those are not typically made as well. ARH and Dick Miller have stainless versions but a bit expensive.

Your thoughts?

Thanks.....James
High 11s is offline  
Old December 13th, 2016, 01:16 PM
  #2  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,615
If you can get the cash i would go with Dick Miller. Arh are not cheap. I have hooker super comps. as well a ARH on my motors. JMO
wr1970 is offline  
Old December 13th, 2016, 01:32 PM
  #3  
Registered User
 
olds 307 and 403's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melville, Saskatchewan
Posts: 4,606
I would consider the larger 1 7/8" or 2" primary tube if you are considering upgrades into the 500 hp range.
olds 307 and 403 is offline  
Old December 13th, 2016, 03:36 PM
  #4  
Registered User
 
BlackGold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 1,584
If I remember correctly, the larger 1-7/8" Hooker SuperComps, in addition to having larger diameter primary tubes which don't shroud the exhaust ports the way the 1-3/4" do, also have longer primary tubes -- something which is always good for low-end torque. Let's face it, you probably won't be spinning your engine above 5500 RPM, right?
BlackGold is offline  
Old December 14th, 2016, 04:25 AM
  #5  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 5,183
You could actually get by with 1 3/4 if your build will stay mild. Made 500 on those just a few weeks ago.
I wouldn't go more than 1 7/8. I went to 2.00" on a 600+hp build and lost midrange torque. Didn't gain anything up top either.
cutlassefi is offline  
Old December 14th, 2016, 07:53 AM
  #6  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
High 11s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Romeo, Michigan
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by wr1970 View Post
If you can get the cash i would go with Dick Miller. Arh are not cheap. I have hooker super comps. as well a ARH on my motors. JMO
I might just save up for Dick Miller....stainless is the way to go if funds permit!

Originally Posted by BlackGold View Post
If I remember correctly, the larger 1-7/8" Hooker SuperComps, in addition to having larger diameter primary tubes which don't shroud the exhaust ports the way the 1-3/4" do, also have longer primary tubes -- something which is always good for low-end torque. Let's face it, you probably won't be spinning your engine above 5500 RPM, right?
BlackGold...You are absolutely correct- 1-7/8 hooker super comps have 36" primaries vs 32" on 1-3/4's, and yes 5500 rpm is my limit!

Originally Posted by cutlassefi View Post
You could actually get by with 1 3/4 if your build will stay mild. Made 500 on those just a few weeks ago.
I wouldn't go more than 1 7/8. I went to 2.00" on a 600+hp build and lost midrange torque. Didn't gain anything up top either.
I remembered that you made 500hp on 1-3/4 - good info thanks Mark!

Thanks for your quick and helpful replies- I was thinking 500hp is likely the transition point for 1-3/4 vs 1-7/8.

James
High 11s is offline  
Old December 14th, 2016, 03:42 PM
  #7  
Registered User
 
olds 307 and 403's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melville, Saskatchewan
Posts: 4,606
Originally Posted by cutlassefi View Post
You could actually get by with 1 3/4 if your build will stay mild. Made 500 on those just a few weeks ago.
I wouldn't go more than 1 7/8. I went to 2.00" on a 600+hp build and lost midrange torque. Didn't gain anything up top either.
There you go, go with an expert's opinion. I would have thought 1 3/4" headers were on the small side for 500 HP, the dyno shows otherwise.
olds 307 and 403 is offline  
Old December 15th, 2016, 03:03 AM
  #8  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,615
Originally Posted by cutlassefi View Post
You could actually get by with 1 3/4 if your build will stay mild. Made 500 on those just a few weeks ago.
I wouldn't go more than 1 7/8. I went to 2.00" on a 600+hp build and lost midrange torque. Didn't gain anything up top either.
You really think that the header size was the root cause for the loss at mid range and top was the headers being to big?

Last edited by wr1970; December 15th, 2016 at 03:05 AM.
wr1970 is offline  
Old December 15th, 2016, 03:59 AM
  #9  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 5,183
Originally Posted by wr1970 View Post
You really think that the header size was the root cause for the loss at mid range and top was the headers being to big?

Yep, no other change. It's on ROP under "Header Test".
cutlassefi is offline  
Old December 15th, 2016, 04:09 AM
  #10  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,615
Originally Posted by cutlassefi View Post
Yep, no other change. It's on ROP under "Header Test".
I guess what i am asking what leads you to think that? I may be off base because i need to go reread the thread.
wr1970 is offline  
Old December 15th, 2016, 04:32 AM
  #11  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,615
Okay i checked your thread on header test. You tested without the cones and merge collectors which i think means a open tube.That in it's self could account for the loss. Not quite sure why someone would order the ARH without the cones and merge collectors. This was brought up to me by a engine builder as why american racing headers are a very good header is because of the cones and the merge collectors. The one thing not used in your test on this 600 + hp engine. Also stated on ARH site as a big factor to achieve Max torque.

Last edited by wr1970; December 15th, 2016 at 07:59 AM.
wr1970 is offline  
Old December 15th, 2016, 09:32 AM
  #12  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,615
PM sent to EfI for a reply on this discussion.
wr1970 is offline  
Old December 15th, 2016, 02:17 PM
  #13  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 5,183
Originally Posted by wr1970 View Post
Okay i checked your thread on header test. You tested without the cones and merge collectors which i think means a open tube. Correct That in it's self could account for the loss. Not quite sure why someone would order the ARH without the cones and merge collectors. They didn't come with any merge collector at all. This was brought up to me by a engine builder as to why american racing headers are a very good header is because of the cones and the merge collectors. Yes the tapered cone is inside the collector. The one thing not used in your test on this 600 + hp engine. Also stated on ARH site as a big factor to achieve Max torque.
Both headers dumped right into the dyno exhaust system. Neither header came with reducers/merge collectors, not even the ARH's. You'd think they would after spending $1400 on a set.

Thanks.
cutlassefi is offline  
Old December 15th, 2016, 07:27 PM
  #14  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,615
Originally Posted by cutlassefi View Post
Both headers dumped right into the dyno exhaust system. Neither header came with reducers/merge collectors, not even the ARH's. You'd think they would after spending $1400 on a set.

Thanks.
Thanks for the reply. According to the ARH Tech i called this morning you must have ordered them without as the norm is they come with cones and merge connectors. I think a mix up happened but who knows. Still a very impressive build. My bet is more torque with the cones and merge collector. Possible that it might change your mind set Mark.
wr1970 is offline  
Old December 16th, 2016, 06:27 AM
  #15  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 5,183
Originally Posted by wr1970 View Post
Thanks for the reply. According to the ARH Tech i called this morning you must have ordered them without as the norm is they come with cones and merge connectors. I think a mix up happened but who knows. Still a very impressive build. My bet is more torque with the cones and merge collector. Possible that it might change your mind set Mark.
I know. The guy there, Steve, dropped the ball. I ordered them but never got a confirmation. I called a few weeks later to get an update and got no effort on resolving the issue. It wasn't until I called Nick personally that it got done. Even with that he was going to charge me the full shipping cost, even though it was their fault. He finally agreed to eat the shipping cost, a whopping $60.00. Real sacrifice for a $1400.00 set of headers huh. I shouldn't have had to ask.
I'm fan of their product but their customer service really sucks.
cutlassefi is offline  
Old December 16th, 2016, 06:39 AM
  #16  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,615
Now we have the whole story Mark. Again thanks for letting all the facts be known. Congrats again on a great build for madmax.
wr1970 is offline  
Old December 17th, 2016, 05:59 PM
  #17  
Registered User
 
madmax442's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Barre,VT
Posts: 582
I'm happy with the results! I probably should have had bought a girdle but we both didn't think it would lay down 622 horsepower! Those heads were awesome! I'm sure with a bit bigger cam, more timing and a steel crank I could get 650 but obviously it would still need a girdle!
madmax442 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
OLDScience
Parts For Sale
0
March 19th, 2016 05:13 PM
88hurstolds
Parts For Sale
1
April 27th, 2015 02:59 PM
88hurstolds
Parts For Sale
0
March 31st, 2015 01:28 PM
speck1148
Parts For Sale
2
February 3rd, 2013 06:00 PM
speck1148
Parts For Sale
4
December 31st, 2012 07:43 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Header choice - '70 442 - hooker super comp 1 3/4 ?


Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.