Ughh, you know I wanted to test this car right after the manual steering swap, with nothing else altered so badly. The goal was to hit that simulation ideal for a base version of my car as was.

But there was no way to go back to the track without replacing timing chain etc once that seed was planted i had to address it for peace of mind.

So I take it the fact that the engine sped up 50 rpm ( confirmed via tach after several hundred miles and in all driving conditions ) could actually hurt me in the conditions i tested in ? Im guessing that the new timing kit in essence advanced my timing ? I took the gain as a net positive and a clear indicator that the car benefited from the new timing chain kit. Did not really consider that it could actually be a negative ? all else left the same ?

 

Swapping the cam at the same time as the timing chain made total sense and is a big time might as well. But that would defeat my goal of trying to run an ideal pass stock engine... Its not the next move in my pecking order either. Want a 3.42 limited slip before i go there... But eventually i can see a cam swap happening. Just want to kind of wring out every major move.

Yes i really want to get that TCI Saturday night special installed, thinking it will really help chop my 60 ft down. I cannot load up on the line once the tires lathered in track bite. Very hard to hold it from creeping through the beams and killing the pass. My best numbers come via a dead punch after a healthy warm-up. I'm hoping the new converter will do its thing with a dead punch ?

The transmission is shifting at 5200-5400 not me, that's factory. I have never manually shifted the car to a quicker pass than the transmission has. So i don't bother, tried for years. All my 15 second passes at all 3 tracks were the trans shifting itself. All Atco passes are trans shifting itself.


I have tried a manual shift up to 5500 over the years my car did not like it either. Again the transmission shifts itself best, many passes confirmed it. I totally stopped even trying to shift once i started running at Atco. With that said do you think the trans is shifting itself on the high side ? and i mean with regards to factory calibration not vs power-band ? It is after all 50 years old with 122,000 + miles and never rebuilt to my knowledge... Maybe the trans is holding me back somewhat ? Shift points have seemed to fluctuate over the years from about 4800 - 5400 ( would have to look at notes to confirm ) but keep in mind its an analog tach, relatively new yes although somewhat difficult to read at higher rpm. That needle gets real jittery when the engine in revving high.

The manual steering swap is great, but I learned to drive that way and my first car was a 67 Olds that came that way from factory, drove it for parts of 3 decades. With regards to stripping options, my 69 became a toy to me right after it was totaled while parked. So all those creature comforts like the ac that no longer worked went bye bye. No regrets. My 67 was all stock drum and drum with no assist, manual trans, no ac, manual steering, one belt. But it had a V8 (330) and it hauled ***. That to me is an ideal setup for Olds.

As far as gains, she never hit or exceeded 89 mph in the 1/4 till the ac came off... Haven't been able to really run the car all out since the manual steering swap, but i'm fairly certain once the kinks are sorted out it will complete a all time best.

As far as my 350 being less than an ideal power-plant i hear you. But 240 hp net ain't bad IMHO, about the same or somewhat more than cars that have run quicker with similar weight So the way i see it my go package is whats really holding it back as of now. Time will tell if my theory is correct...

For example Car & Drivers 1972 Plymouth Barracuda 340ci/240hp net, 4spd, 3.55, 0-60 - 6.9, 1/4 mile - 15.50 @ 91.70 mph. It's base curb is only about 100 lbs less than my 69s base curb 3428 lbs vs 3534 lbs. So weights not really the difference it has to be setup. I matched that ET because of a great modern track and tires etc. But i really want that 2-3 mph more that the cuda is showing... This cuda is probably 14's with today's benefits.

With regards to what you have done to increase your cars performance, much appreciated info. I just want get that ultimate baseline before i go there.

PS my cars baseline as I have tested with all options installed ac, power steering, 3 belts, including factory air cleaner housing is 15.9 @ 88.84 at almost 4000 lbs but the baseline i really want to see is with base options, or as close as i can get.

 

[/QUOTE]
A)1969 W31 4speed manual- 14.5- @ 97.2- mph 3650 lbs curb
B)1970 W31 3speed auto--- 14.75 @ 95.44 mph 3680 lbs test
C)1969 W31 3speed auto--- 14.9- @ 96.0- mph 3640 lbs curb
D)1970 Rallye 350 4sp man 15.27 @ 94.33 mph unknown + 2 passengers
E)1970 Rallye 350 3sp man 15.4- @ 89--- mph 3500 lbs (unknown)
F)1968 F85 BO7 4speed man 15.5- @ 93.07 mph 3500 lbs test
[/QUOTE]

Rallye 350 as my comparison of same 1970 310 HP 350 engine in my Cutlass Cruiser wagon performance that is a automatic TH350 3.08 Anti-Spin
except my wagon is 4435# with me in it as per NHRA scales last weekend at Texas Motorplex.
My best time is 15.1@90 2 years ago with original carburetor and on SSII wheels 225/70R14 Cooper Cobras.
Went 15.3 last weekend and now has HEI and a 403 800 Q-jet that gets a hell of a lot better MPG.
My engine is #'s match original rebuilt and correct style ( 68-70 )10.25:1 type 030 cast NOS badger pistons and deck was not touched and using thick head gasket .040+ so my compression is lower than original.
The heads have zero porting nor does intake and stock small valves , stock valve job just rebuilt and only springs upgraded but did convert to adjustable rockers (1.6 SBF Windsor roller tip cheap ones)
Only real HP bump is I did headers (but stock heads) and small cam was a generic PDQ-Erson 214/224 @050 112 LSA I just thru it in ADV 4 on a roller chain since its a heavy and tall geared.

Works good IMO for a bunch heavier and less gear than Rallye.

To compare the heavier 68 Vista Cruiser road test that was loaded 390HP 455 and 3.42 Ant-Spin killer optioned went a quite awesome 14.7@94 in I think Motor Trend

 

A)1969 W31 4speed manual- 14.5- @ 97.2- mph 3650 lbs curb
B)1970 W31 3speed auto--- 14.75 @ 95.44 mph 3680 lbs test
C)1969 W31 3speed auto--- 14.9- @ 96.0- mph 3640 lbs curb
D)1970 Rallye 350 4sp man 15.27 @ 94.33 mph unknown + 2 passengers
E)1970 Rallye 350 3sp man 15.4- @ 89--- mph 3500 lbs (unknown)
F)1968 F85 BO7 4speed man 15.5- @ 93.07 mph 3500 lbs test
[/QUOTE]

Rallye 350 as my comparison of same 1970 310 HP 350 engine in my Cutlass Cruiser wagon performance that is a automatic TH350 3.08 Anti-Spin
except my wagon is 4435# with me in it as per NHRA scales last weekend at Texas Motorplex.
My best time is 15.1@90 2 years ago with original carburetor and on SSII wheels 225/70R14 Cooper Cobras.
Went 15.3 last weekend and now has HEI and a 403 800 Q-jet that gets a hell of a lot better MPG.
My engine is #'s match original rebuilt and correct style ( 68-70 )10.25:1 type 030 cast NOS badger pistons and deck was not touched and using thick head gasket .040+ so my compression is lower than original.
The heads have zero porting nor does intake and stock small valves , stock valve job just rebuilt and only springs upgraded but did convert to adjustable rockers (1.6 SBF Windsor roller tip cheap ones)
Only real HP bump is I did headers (but stock heads) and small cam was a generic PDQ-Erson 214/224 @050 112 LSA I just thru it in ADV 4 on a roller chain since its a heavy and tall geared.

Works good IMO for a bunch heavier and less gear than Rallye.

To compare the heavier 68 Vista Cruiser road test that was loaded 390HP 455 and 3.42 Ant-Spin killer optioned went a quite awesome 14.7@94 in I think Motor Trend[/QUOTE]

So your racing Texas Muscle Car Club Challenge?

 

So are you against suspension up grades? Those front springs are not helping you! Get some quick release trick springs for better weight transfer. What about shocks? I agree get some cutouts installed. Add that 342 rearend with a posi. Good luck with all you are doing.

 

So your racing Texas Muscle Car Club Challenge?[/QUOTE]


Yes sir, bracket race and last year switched class in points so I can bring different cars and use same numbers for anything 7.25 or slower in 1/8 allows me to run the 7 second Catalina, 8 second C10 or 9 second wagon (used to run 12.5/ 7.9 w Pont 455)

 

We missed the last race getting our dyno running, plan to race that series.

 

Great performance, quicker than me on both ends. While weighing about 600 lbs more. And my best pass was in phenomenal weather, at a very fast track. You'd probably run 14s at Atco in similar conditions.

Good stuff, thanks so much for this post.

Not necessarily against suspension upgrades. Did have some front end work done over the pandemic pause. New front springs, new center link, etc.

Thanks for the advice.


P.S. guys thanks again for posting and sorry for not responding sooner. The pandemic pause took the wind from my sails so to speak. Haven't gotten to the track in years. Nor had the oomph to get her to run quicker... leading me to somewhat overlook this thread.

 

Yeah it screwed everyone in one way or another. Glad you still have the car, hoping to put the 358 and SEFI this Winter, TKX 5 speed and 3.08 posi next year. Hope to hit a track within the next 5 years, realistically.

 

Sounds good olds 307 and 403, looking forward to hearing about your results. And thank you for the support.

My 69 is still running healthy, recently cracked 135,000 miles (got her with 103,000). Still rips on wide open throttle. This is my 10th year of ownership. Body is in need of tlc among other things. Hopefully get her some much needed attention soon. Since covid, now Atco is gone as well as Englishtown, down to Island Dragway as far as what's relatively close to me.

 

Yeah, Saskatoon 4 hours away is the closest drag strip to me. One of the reasons it needs to be a long distance cruiser. I have the SEFI up and running, it needs to proper TPS and the right tune. I will get the 3.08 and posi in next Winter. The 5 spd will take over a year, it takes a lot our funny money to equal US dollars. Glad your car is running strong.

 

Guys I was watching Uncle Tony's Garage. Tony DeFeo of Cars Illustrated for those unfamiliar. Serious car guy, serious drag racer, older guy that really knows what he is doing. What I am wondering is why he runs through the water box with regular tires before the burnout. I was always advised to drive around the water box with regular tires... Which is what I have always done, and back up onto the glue for the burnout. I have maybe 350 passes between both the 87 and 69 at the track and have never done otherwise. Am I wasting effort driving around etc... ? He is complaining about wheel spin but is also running better than new... He mentions doing the burnout the way he does to clean out debris from tire tread in 2nd video of series. But again complains about traction issues constantly. While thinking a posi is the solution to his problems...

He has a baseline on his 2dr 1996 Cherokee XJ 4.0L 5 speed of 10.04 in the 1/8 mile at 68.68 with a 2.32 60ft. 3370 LBS with driver. Virtually identical performance to my best pass in the 69 but I'm 500 lbs heavier on the line. Another difference is I am 2 mph higher but auto to his manual. His goal, turning the XJ into a 13.99 car or a 8.9 in the 1/8 on a 3000 dollar budget. With factory parts no hot rod parts. Those XJs apparently were incredibly well built vehicles. Light at 3000 LBS base curb with 190 hp, they ran 16 flat new in a perfect scenario. That's a 10.30 1/8 new. So obviously his car is already running very well. Here is his baseline vid.


He also has 5 follow up vids that I know of so far, the most recent being a day ago and has gotten down to a 9.84 in the 1/8 bone stock powertrain. With 2200 dollars spent so far and after lightening the weight by 260 lbs. That's a 15.3 in the 1/4. Although he doesn't think the 1/8 mile to 1/4 mile conversion is that accurate on this specific vehicle due to small engine and big wind on 2nd half of track. Still has backseat and AC that will stay. He runs at Ethridge Motorsports Park and Buffalo Valley, Tennessee.

 

wr1970, how do you feel about removing the sway bars ? I only have a front. UTG says he shaved 3/10s of a second by doing it on a Mustang. He also removed the front and rear sway bars on the 96 Cherokee while handling has not missed a beat. He says the vehicle handles the same way as stock in all driving conditions, including winding, twisting, hilly roads. (2nd video of series.)

I was sure a member had mentioned this to me already but could not locate the comment after just reviewing the entire thread thoroughly. Maybe I missed it. In any case I also extend the question to all members. Again Tony DeFeo a car expert says, you could not tell that the sway bars are missing on a 96 Cherokee. I don't know how that translates to a 69 Cutlass Coupe.

 

That guy's an idiot if he thinks they don't make a difference. I have a low 11sec street car, and have them front and rear.
You might not see any difference putting around a parking lot at 10mph, but I can guarantee you will notice a difference cranking into an exit ramp at 30-45mph.
The stock rear unit between the lower control arms isn't as effective as a frame referenced piece. That will help reduce the twist on launch.

 

A body cars really need the sway bars intact, just put a set of polyurethane frame bushings on and grease em they have very little to no drag on a launch AND a front sway bar we keep the front end level on the launch especially on a A body car they go weird and twist crazy on launch without one, one should focus on maximum torque production (and HP) and decent tires as you improve the car over time

 

Our 69 was quicker over a 1/4 mile with both sway bars removed but it did not handle as well with out them. Car was running Moroso front runners on the street so it was never going to be a slalom car. We were killing its street drive-ability by installing manual brakes,manual steering and a 4.11 gear set. With today's technology and parts availability you can have both a slalom car and a drag car in one package.

 

Without a doubt things are better today. From my viewpoint a big win is better trans ratios so we dont have to run 3.91 - 4.56 rear end ratios. My new setup has a better first gear ratio than the old M21 / 4.56 setup.
Still running manual brakes and steering though. :-)

 

Oldsmobile covered the front stabilizer/sway bar in the Spring 1970 "Super Tuning and Blueprinting specifications" page 14 "Suspension", C. Front Stabilizer bar bushings: They suggested reaming out the rubber bushings with the 15/16" stabilizer bar.

I actually just shimmed the bracket with washers to remove "pinching" on the bar and lightly greased the bushings.

 

Thanks Bernhard, and thanks one and all for all 5 responses.

As I have been, just to a lesser degree. I am in the midst of having all braking components replaced, pads, rotors, calipers, booster, etc. Although a part of me wanted to revert to its born in drum system. Had I purchased the car with its original setup I would likely never have modified it. My first car a 67 Cutlass was manual steering and manual drum brakes. Which was a daily driver for the first 5 years, that I drove far harder than the 69. So I am well versed on the limitations and inherently drive with them in mind. No tailgating at speed, no cutting it up, no whipping into turns like I'm in a Porsche 911.

With that said, fleming442s response puts worry in me. It's so polar opposite of UTG. As well as the undercurrent of all responses.

 

Look, in the grand scheme of things, you can absolutely remove the antisway bars in pursuit of the optimal ET. I would reinstall them for street use, though. You'll already have the pictures and timeslips...

 

I am trying the no sway bar route. Your shocks and springs affect the handling as well. I put QA1 double adjustables up front hoping I can firm up the ride for the street and then adjust for the track. Not enough drive time yet to make a determination. I did have too firm a spring in to start and it would not lean at all in a normal corner but it rode like a Sherman tank. I thought expansion cracks were going to shake the car apart. Went from 550 inch pound springs to 450 and it made a difference.

If it does not work out, I may look at some kind of fast disconnect bar.

I should be back on the road this weekend and hope to stay on the road until snow flies and get some miles on it. Famous last words....