Our next dyno session starts this coming Monday, December 1st. If you have any desire to help, this would be a good trip to help. We will certainly make a bunch of pulls over 600 HP using the disappointing PDD ported Gen3 Edelbrocks. We will then switch to the CFM ported Gen2's and finish off with the Batten heads. After this we will put on the A's and run some tests with these heads. Lots of work to do in prepping parts to run on the engine while other testing is going on. If things go really well, the new Gen3's will get put on and start those baselines, again, with the valves and seats actually being round. So far Lloyd is the only one from here that has came to help. No real experience necessary as long as you can follow directions. We will be really busy if all goes well. If you want to help, and I can probably provide a place to sleep, shoot me an e-mail at jerry@tandjw.com.

jerry

 

explain “ disappointing pdd heads”

 

Well, read the write up. They really made no more power than stock. Great slow bench heads…..

kerry

 

I didn’t read it

 

Hey Jerry,

When using the PDD heads, are you raising the headers to match the raised roof of the ports? I saw no mention of that.
I had Flatout make me gaskets for these and the difference is fairly significant.
Also, what ignition are you using? I saw no mention of that either. I’d try the Progression Ignition stuff if you haven’t already. It’s also a great way to do part throttle timing as well.

 

We did not. We were not instructed of anything like that. So we will have to look at that and see, thanks for the heads up. We did seem to pick up more than I thought when we went to 1 7/8" headers.

For igntion we are using a MSD 6AL2 Programmable. This allows us to easily change ignition timing and keep it pretty consistant. I have looked at the Progression igntion. I'll probably put that on my '77 Delta 88 PaceCar.

jerry

 

[QUOTE=JerryW;1660187]We did not. We were not instructed of anything like that. So we will have to look at that and see, thanks for the heads up. We did seem to pick up more than I thought when we went to 1 7/8" headers.

For igntion we are using a MSD 6AL2 Programmable. This allows us to easily change ignition timing and keep it pretty consistant. I have looked at the Progression igntion. I'll probably put that on my '77 Delta 88 PaceCar.]

You’re welcome. The misalignment is pretty significant, about 3/16”. I’m kinda surprised nobody there picked up on this. I’d bet your ported head hp/tq numbers will change. Part of the exhaust flow is hitting a brick wall at the top of the header tube/flange.
And I’ve done three or four Progression ignition applications, they work great. Just an fyi.

 

A little story. At the track I ran into a customer that just had a engine he built dyno tested, it had a miss above 6400 RPM, he believed it was a valve spring issue, it had new Howards springs recommended for their own solid roller cam, he brought them to my shop and had me check the pressure, the pressure seemed fine. He wanted to put a negative .050 keeper with titanium retainers thinking this was going to fix the problem, I was skeptical seeing it was a mild solid roller. He wanted me to dyno test the engine after he made the modifications, I said ok. In making arrangements for the dyno test, I went over everything with him as far as what was needed for the test. He mentioned he had a progressive ignition, I asked him if he wanted to start with my MSD dist, he said no, he was very proud of his progressive ignition and asked if I've used one, I said no I haven't. So we put the engine on the dyno and fired it up, we run it up to 6500 RPM and sure enough it's shooting ducks above 6300 RPM. So we go to lunch and we make a plan, were not sure what to make of it, while eating were talking racing, he mentions you sure don't like a lot of my parts choices, I didn't have a comment, I just contemplated the results I get at the track in comparison to his results. The customers at a loss at this point, so I take charge, 1st were going to pull the plugs and have a look, which they looked good, so my next change is pull his beloved progressive ignition dist with a timing curve no less, in goes my locked MSD dist. So I set the timing at 35 total and make a short pull to 4900 RPM, I notice its coming off the brake cleaner, everything looks good to 4900 RPM, I then set the upper RPM to 6500 RPM and make a pull, no more miss I pull up the graph and its still going at 6500 RPM, I turn it up to 6700 RPM and the peak comes in at a clean 6600 RPM. The customer had this engine on two different dyno's, installed titanium retainers, turns out it was his beloved dist, Vortecpro put a end to the mayhem..................................

 

so the progressive ignition wasn’t progressing?

 

Not enough information. Did you change coil? Did you change plug wires? Did you look at the set up of the distributor and see what timing it was commanding and what a timing light said?

jerry

 

Here's what I know: I seen him over by the dyno with his phone out, I believe he was setting the timing. He checked the timing while it was running and said it was at 34 degrees total, but he also told me at lunch he runs a curve. He also said the REV limiter was set at 7000 RPM. We then changed the dist and cap to my dist and cap and the problem went away, same plug wires. He also stated he had the same ignition in his race car, and I should try it I'd love it. He was very concerned about this high RPM miss, and was thinking the problem was in the valve train, he changed the spring pressure, installed titanium retainers and a stud girdle. The engine was a 383 chevy, 11.1 comp, 247 @ .050 solid roller, Weingartner china heads, Victor Jr intake, 535 HP @ 6600 RPM 490 TQ. 520 uncorrected HP @ 900 feet elevation.

 

I will also note, since moving to Texas I've seen a lot of electronics fail that I'd never seen before, I believe its the water in the air, I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I keep my shop monitored at 20% humidity ALWAYS, which takes some doing.

 

I ran a 455 on mY Dyno MSD a few months ago, which I’ve replaced the pick up in twice. Next I put in the customers Progression ignition with the same total timing. Made exactly the same number.
Personally I’ve had more issues with the MSD crap than ever. It’s junk, and expensive, and I’m a dealer for them.
Switched to ready to run FAST/Edelbrock Max-Fire distributors. No issues.

 

I have 2 cars with the progression ignition and I’m a big fan. I will at some point add a DUI coil cap and rotor as they have never failed me. I quit using HEI / MSD caps , coils due to intermittent popping, backfire etc. keep in mind I usually run 2-4 classes per event I race . I was a big fan of MSD for decades after chasing the first issue on my 83 buying new MSD caps, coils and then putting a stock GM coil/cap on it and fixed it, MSD tech/return department was zero help. I don’t know if anyone that’s puts more runs on a car in a single night than I do. Sometimes not even shutting it off so I put it through the river. This is just my perspective and experience