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It is funny, I was thinking about this today, so you must have ESP!
My combo would be BBO Based on bore size limitations with a Small Block Olds and the valve size and airflow limitations that also incurs. Also, since you didn't say no aftermarket blocks, I was assuming NASCAR SBO or Rocket Racing BBO blocks as possible:
Rocket Racing Block - 4.40" bore
Rotating Assembly:
4.25" stroke lightened Billet crank with full counterweights (Rocket Racing, Bryant, Velasco) and small Honda Rod journals (1.888), with 2.5 inch main journals and main journal bearing reducers installed in the block; Coated Bearings with .0025 clearance 1-4 and .003 on #5
Pankyl custom titanium rods, 7.0" length, drilled vertically through the center to feed oil to the wrist pins from the rod bearing; coated rod bearings
Custom, 15:1 compression, lightweight JE Asymetrical-skirt coated pistons with custom ring lands using total seal dykes top 1.2mm/ standard .9mm second/2.0mm oil rings and small (.866) tool steel wrist pins with .180 wall thickness and double spirolox, with .0015-.0018 wrist pin clearance honed to size. Running narrow little ends on connecting rods, and .600 pin width in the bosses to keep the piston pin and piston stabilized, light, and strong. Compression variable is based on head chamber CC dimensions and shape of piston crown for best airflow and fuel/air combustion efficiency.
ATI aluminum neutral balance damper
Camshaft and lifters:
Custom Jesel (cartridge-style)Roller lifters with 1.00" inch body and 1.220 roller wheel diameter
Billet Roller cam - likely in the 275 degree duration range at .050 on the intake and 280-285 range on the exhaust, depending on the Intake to exhaust port flow number ratio..... lift in the .900's with a 1.4-1.5 rocker arm ratio. 106-108LSA.
Custom cam diameter journals at 2.362 vs the stock Olds journal size of 2.0357 to allow a larger base circle and higher lobe lift of over .600 to reduce stress on rocker arms and reduce deflection of cam core under high valve spring loads and high RPM.
Custom timing belt timing system (Jesel?)
Custom Jesel shaft mount Rocker arms (1.4-1.5 ratio expected)
Cylinder heads and intake manifold:
Peyton Hunt (come on, lets see em' flow!, Competition Design, or highly worked Batten cylinder heads modified with 420cfm intake flow at >.800 lift
Titanium valves on the intake and exhaust, Berrylium Copper valve seats. Restricted 7/16 pushrods. Cometic custom gaskets and 9/16 head studs.
Custom Sheet Metal tunnel Ram with optimized runner length and cross section for a wide high RPM capability and optimized average horsepower. Carburetor boosters should be aimed at back of intake valves. Cylinder Head intake angle should be optimized for shortest runner length and straightest shot at the intake valves.
Methanol is the fuel of choice., with Split Dominators or an EFI system (Likely a Motec M1 series) running an alcohol fuel injection setup
Oiling system:
Dry sump pan with 4 stage Evac/Vacuum and dual pressure stages pushing on both ends of block. Evac will be at the oil pan and one manifolded line pulling on both valve Covers at the rear back of the heads; regulate to 14 inches of vacuum. (Thus the reason for the gun-drilled connecting rods and the oil-through hole to eliminate starvation of oil from the wrist pins). Valve covers with oil spray bars installed
Ignition System:
Crank trigger pickups made into Custom ATI Damper (By ATI), running through a Motec Single channel CDI ignition box 41013, and Bosch single channel igniter. Magnecor spark plug wires. EFI will allow easier control and optimization of the spark and fuel curves for changes in fuel and air density.
Last edited by Battenrunner; January 26th, 2020 at 09:41 PM.
What you really need to go fast is about $100 dollars per HP. That is the first thing you will need to put in your parts cart the rest you can afford to have someone else do the work........ Tedd
When I think of 1000 HP car I think cubic dollars.
This what I imagine a 1000 hp Oldsmobile would look like.
I do not know what the engine produces or what chassis is certified for.
Even if one can afford to build such a car it would even take more funds to run the car.
I think 35k to 40k might just be the down payment on the engine.
Way to $$$$$ and way over my head as well.
I guess I should have just said it would cost so much that I don't even want to suggest it... I thought this was an interesting topic that WR1970 brought up.
If the NASCAR and Pro-Stock BATTEN Olds engines hadn't been sponsored by Oldsmobile, I guess no one would have developed them either.
Because so many builders have done Big Block Chevy builds up to 1000hp and beyond, they have obviously gotten much cheaper over time. From what I understand, there aren't stock Block BBC builds that can make 1000hp reliably either. It takes a Dart or Merlin Block and large runner aftermarket heads. The cheapest I found was a $14,000 Shafiroff combo. $14,000 after years of development and lots of combos finding the weak links and busting expensive parts.
Well it can't be that hard. I met a guy who said he had a Jeep Wrangler with an 1100 hp small block Chevy, so it seems anyone/everyone can easily do it. Full race cam, high rise intake, popup pistons, nitrous, and BAM, there you are.
Rocket racing block
Billet crank
billet heads
one off intake
BTR at the helm
$35 to $40 K USD This might still be light
The question is why?
Rolling around ideas. I would love to do a turbo build but I am thinking time has passed me by. I love reading what others are doing and thinking about for builds.
This was a discussion recently amongst a few of my friends on Facebook. I cannot say much about this but just know a 1000+ hp N/A engine will happen in the next year to 18 months and it won’t be a BBO.
Guy I know, had BTR built 560 RR block and RR heads. 938 HP / 768 T 7600 RPM
But did not go all out the the RR heads. On the Dyno day the engine wanted to jump off the Dyno.
Without some type of power adder or new and improved cylinder head. Which a few guys are working on. Maybe the only way to get 1,000. But at what cost.
Cylinder heads are the biggest problem. .
Big inch SB based engine would do it. Probably with some batten heads. Again I always refrence the There Morrison engine where they made more power with a smaller cubic inch destroked big block vs the bigger inch small block they where running. They where not taxing the heads with the big block combo whereas with the SB combo the heads where clearly the limitation and that's the issue we have in the olds world. I know someone who added cubic inches using a rocker block combo with all our ported edelbrocks and literally didn't go faster. The heads are the limiting factor. Just my thoughts. But the fastest Oldsmobiles have all be SB based. Just gonna remind everyone that
Big inch SB based engine would do it. Probably with some batten heads. Again I always refrence the There Morrison engine where they made more power with a smaller cubic inch destroked big block vs the bigger inch small block they where running. They where not taxing the heads with the big block combo whereas with the SB combo the heads where clearly the limitation and that's the issue we have in the olds world. I know someone who added cubic inches using a rocker block combo with all our ported edelbrocks and literally didn't go faster. The heads are the limiting factor. Just my thoughts. But the fastest Oldsmobiles have all be SB based. Just gonna remind everyone that
The SBO had NOS, Supercharge or Turbo. To be the fastest. Not knocking SBO! They can take a beating. I believe even the Nascar HP bocks.(SBO) Where at least 15+ to 1 compression. And difference size crank main journals. Running god knows how many rpms.
But at what cost for these heads!. For you guys who do not do Facebook.
·Update:: Flow numbers Marty Zimmermann
Well without further dodo here’s what we got. 1st set of numbers are on MBE ‘s Superflow 1020. 4.500 bore cylinder with the head on a 1” 4.400000 bore slider plate. To be honest I was hoping for 480 cfm @1.00 valve lift with a 2.350 valve. The valve I have is by no means optimized as there are several tricks to make big numbers. This valve is a less than plane Jane so I feel these numbers are legit. My Buddy Derek Dahl is making me some real flow valves that would be representative of what will be in the heads running. The second set of numbers is on my old 1020 at Arrington engines on the same flow set up with a custom made aluminum flow orifice I made after nearly sucking all of Matt’s clay down the port at MBE. I had also welded the ring grooves to get a touch more CSA at the opening, and we all know the CSAis king. (Note the bench at Arrington is typically 2-3 cfm light from the 10 other 1020’s I have used) MBE @28” .100=68 .200=145 .300=238 .400= 313 .500= 378 .600=425 .700= 447! .800= 460 .900= 465 1.00= 477 )-: Arrington @28” .100=73 .200= 147 .300=244 .400=317 .500=379 .600=421 .700=450! .800=462 .900= 466 1.00=475 I got close for a 1st shot…… The .700 number is the game changer. These should run quite nice a a 560 if the buyer steps up. Have a good day gentlemen, and remember these are not your fathers Oldsmobile heads!
For your viewing pleasure
Last edited by HighwayStar 442; November 4th, 2022 at 05:39 AM.
Those heads look amazing, huge numbers for Olds heads. How do Peyton Hunts new heads compare?
Not sure. But this head will get you 1,000+ HP. And he is working on designing for bigger intake valve and different valve angle. I believe for 1'' lift!! Marty is one of the best. He cleaned up my Battens and all out porting for many Olds racers.
BTR had a block of Aluminum he was his CNC machine. But took it down from Facebook. I think there are 3 guys I know of trying to build the latest and greatest cylinder head. They tell you what they are doing, but when tell you to tell nobody. Just like a few of the racers tell me. I can keep a secret.
I have big shoulders, gorilla arms and a barrel chest. I can take it.
Ok Magilla Gorilla. But the next time you read something on Facebook make sure you understand what you are reading. You read a question from an engine builder about adding bigger intake valve. The reply was what would probably need to be done to fit it. And if you read it correctly you would know he was not talking about valve angle but the seat angle.
Ok Magilla Gorilla. But the next time you read something on Facebook make sure you understand what you are reading. You read a question from an engine builder about adding bigger intake valve. The reply was what would probably need to be done to fit it. And if you read it correctly you would know he was not talking about valve angle but the seat angle.
Don't spread BS.
More like King Kong, grabbing the women and jumping on a bar. Fighting all comers.
Forgive me for not being precisely correct. Being a hobbyist and not a racer. I misunderstood. And I am so glad that you corrected me.
As a non engine builder, I thought valve angle and seat angle.go hand to hand. Maybe you should tell others on here, whats going on in the Oldsmobile world on Facebook. Since you have a much better understand!
ok magilla gorilla. But the next time you read something on facebook make sure you understand what you are reading. You read a question from an engine builder about adding bigger intake valve. The reply was what would probably need to be done to fit it. And if you read it correctly you would know he was not talking about valve angle but the seat angle.
More like King Kong, grabbing the women and jumping on a bar. Fighting all comers.
Forgive me for not being precisely correct. Being a hobbyist and not a racer. I misunderstood. And I am so glad that you corrected me.
As a non engine builder, I thought valve angle and seat angle.go hand to hand. Maybe you should tell others on here, whats going on in the Oldsmobile world on Facebook. Since you have a much better understand!
Your actually missing the point. You said that a new design was being produced that is different than the one pictured. You implied that you are aware of some sort of secrets, hush hush, wink wink, nod nod.... If your so trusted why would you even mention it?
As far as posting other people's work, I don't. Why? I don't care about being associated with anyone. I know who I know.
we talk so much about cylinder heads andddddddddddd we still dont have anything at the end of the day lmfao . why cant someone just re pop the battens can call it a day. i know we need a better head but lets face it the market isnt there at all to mass produce
we talk so much about cylinder heads andddddddddddd we still dont have anything at the end of the day lmfao . why cant someone just re pop the battens can call it a day. i know we need a better head but lets face it the market isnt there at all to mass produce
You are definitely not the first person to ask that. I think it comes down to trying to build a better mouse trap. It also comes down to most not wanting to deal with a head that needs special parts.
Your actually missing the point. You said that a new design was being produced that is different than the one pictured. You implied that you are aware of some sort of secrets, hush hush, wink wink, nod nod.... If your so trusted why would you even mention it?
As far as posting other people's work, I don't. Why? I don't care about being associated with anyone. I know who I know.
What is pictured, IS by the same person I mention. I stand corrected on the valve seat angle. Again, I am a Oldsmobile hobbyist.
I mention that others also making heads. Is for the non facebook crowd on this site. Someone ask ''How do Peyton Hunts new heads compare? I am not sure.
But, I let him and others know, that two others are working on new heads. The few racers here that I have message here. Have been friendly and helpful to me. And the many I message on facebook are friendly and helpful.
A few racer on here are just anus with chips on their shoulders. For you guys who do not follow the old sayings.A chip on your shoulder is a metaphor, that you are habitually negative, combative or have a hostile attitude, usually because of a deep resentment or long-held grievance. Ego and being arrogant to provokes disputation.
It is just a fact that some builders and racers do not want to let other know. What they are building and what they have under the hood.
Last edited by HighwayStar 442; November 6th, 2022 at 06:38 PM.
we talk so much about cylinder heads andddddddddddd we still dont have anything at the end of the day lmfao . why cant someone just re pop the battens can call it a day. i know we need a better head but lets face it the market isnt there at all to mass produce
I don’t understand what you mean when you say we still don’t have anything?
To spend tons of money on, of course! I want to say Kellens are $7-9kea and I remember Tester saying he had $15k-ish (or something) tied up in Battens. My gen 1 Edelbrocks work fine for what I'm doing. I'm definitely not looking for $15-20k on heads.
What I'm saying is anything readily available will hold back any big inch engine you can build . Key word readily available. I mentioned someone I know running in the 8's with heavily worked edelbrocks he added cubic inches and absolutely no difference. Everything we have is outdated. Anything that's gonna make serious power is gonna be insane money. I think tester being mentioned was the perfect example because he went all out and was fast but he hit that power wall and went to Chevy power.
What I'm saying is anything readily available will hold back any big inch engine you can build . Key word readily available. I mentioned someone I know running in the 8's with heavily worked edelbrocks he added cubic inches and absolutely no difference. Everything we have is outdated. Anything that's gonna make serious power is gonna be insane money. I think tester being mentioned was the perfect example because he went all out and was fast but he hit that power wall and went to Chevy power.
adding cubic inches won’t make HP when using the same head. It just comes it at a lower RPM.
So you are comparing what’s available to what the Chev has then,,,, that’s a big hill to climb since there are BB chev heads readily available that flow way over 500, like 550 to 580
the custom head shown here isn’t near that at 475.
But the cost of that custom Oldsmobile head. At this point is way to costly to the average person. And are for top drag racers. Who wish to stay and all Olds.
Adding cubes should add power if the head can continue to supply air. That was my point. I love Oldsmobile but the market for cylinder heads has been stagnant. It's actually been nice seeing the SBO getting support which imo is where it's at since cores are still plentiful and cheaper to start with. Plus the fastest olds have been SB based 🤣. Again talking in circles here about the heads being taxed and what not . But also price and availability is everything for a racer. We run every other weekend bracket racing. If something breaks I need something asap. Nothing in the olds world will have that fast of a turn around . A racer friend of mine told me this the best way possible. He went sbc from sbo and everything on his car is out the box . Car runs 10.50's of something breaks he can get parts in a few days. We can keep dreaming but we will never get what the Pontiac and Buick guys have.
January 25th, 2020, 06:22 PM
... Tedd
