wr1970

Drce not a engine the masses of olds racers will claim no matter what Warren Johnson and olds engineers designed it for a olds body racing program!Then you have chevy engines in a olds body and that is a outright sin.Now at what point is the olds guys going to accept that the engine of choice power limits have been exceeded. Due to design and cost makes it not to be feasible to be able to compete.These are the choices i will be deciding on in the next two year.My first engine of choice is 350 D diesel. Second is a 455 so with these limits What are the pluses and minus of these motors.Goal to be 2500 lbs with me in it. Tube chassis has a 456 rear fab9 no back brace.I have a turbo 400 manual valve body tranny. Chassis is a tube chassis with front plate and mid plate provisions to mount them. they are mocked up with a dummy 425 block. I have a victor intake 4150 available. Looking to see how you would build this car and why.What mph should i look for and what horse power. It has a 7.50 cert but not sure that is even feasible.Tester set the bar high and i know of no other who can match him olds powered A body.70/72 style.The car is in my album rocket Vapor.Thanks in advance guys lets get some opinions what i can expect out of the two engines available and what parts to use if it was your car.Both blocks are standard bore.

wr1970

After that many views i thought someone would say{ hey at that weight you need a powerglide}.LOL The D block 350 diesel is going to be 434 or a 380 ci engine haven't made up my mind.I have a 330 crank stock stroke. I have a 4.19 and a 4.09 stroked 425 crank.

chadman

If I were you I would start with the diesel block. Head flow is more of a limiting factor as far as power goes with a REAL Olds engine more so than cubic inches. Sure you will make slightly more power with the additional cubes but not nearly proportionate to the size increase. Since it's a race only car low end torque isn't the concern that it is with a street/strip car.


I'm pretty far along into a relatively serious BB build and in hindsight I probably should have just went with a D/DX.

wr1970

Thanks chadman for your input.I am not sure what heads to run but really thinking about Rocket Racing.

ferndaleflyer

Are you racing or just going fast? There is a difference.

64Rocket

If you are a drag racer then the DX block will produce the power you need.
It will need a lot of machine work.
Batten heads are the first choice.
Rocket racing is next,

E-brocks are another choice.
Wise heads look great, but I don't see any production yet.
A real bracket racer wants a consistent ET. 9's and 10's is easy for an Olds.
If you want to be as fast as you can, it is expensive.

If just a hot street car a well built 455 will due you more than a street tire can handle.

Also a DRCE is a chevy in disguise .

Gene

chadman

Neeley, about the heads. I thought I saw somewhere where you wanted to go mid 9's correct? If so, and you really end up at 2500 lbs. you only need about 600hp to achieve that goal. A set of Edelbrocks with a standard port job and a small solid roller cam will exceed that no problem. My goal on my new motor is 725+hp using a well ported set of Edelbrocks, good compression and a pretty big solid roller cam.

wr1970

You sir have hit a bingo.I am looking to go mid to low nines.I just have been on the fence which motor to use.The diesel block may win out as the motor i use.The 455 engine i have more parts.Flemming yes i am a bracket racer who wants to run a et and mph with certain guys.I have beat them at their own game of fender out the slow car.Now i want to fender them out. Why would i have three cars to race if i only wanted to go fast. One was a 12.50 car 1970 442 ran good for many years.The engine needed to be refreshed so i pulled it.The 67 never ran the way i wanted but did go 11.20 a fair et at 120 mph.I felt the engine should have been a high ten. Pulled it and it resides in the 1970 442.The 67 has a fresh engine best to date has run in drive 11.66 and it is more consistent.Which brings me back to the all out race tube chassis car Rocket Vapor.If i can get this one finished i am done making drag cars.If i can't get the cash i may have to sell it and that bothers me.I am giving this car a time limit of 3 1/2 years to finish.With the hope i can get the cash and parts.

ferndaleflyer

I wonder what my 1/4 mile time would be? Best 1/8 is 6.35 @ 104 w/1.35 60ft......I bracket race and this car prints tickets without being expensive----just all the right stuff. Motor has never seen 6000rpm.

wr1970

Looks you need a 1/4 track to find out.Is a track that far ?Post a picture of that bad boy.I would like to see it and i am sure others would to.

Run to Rund

I disagree with the opinion that the DRCE is a Chevy engine. Olds engineers slapped Chevy in the face by fixing the problems and poor engineering of the Chevy offering. The block has the Olds bell housing pattern and a rocket cast into the face. For me, it was more inspiring than a clean piece of paper engine design would have been, and it also allowed Olds to minimize the number of parts they had to make, and make use of some aftermarket stuff, where there was no need to re-invent the wheel.

ferndaleflyer

There are no 1/4 mile tracks around here---once in a while Rockingham will let you test on the 1/4 but since I never race a 1/4 I just never tried it. My cars are pictured in the race car thread on the last 2 or 3 pages.

badf85

OK, I will say it. A power glide is the way to go, in my opinion! I have been running one for the past 12 years or so. More consistent and Olds make plenty of torque to get it moving. I think my car is plenty of proof to back it up.

wr1970

Okay now that you are in the sandbox why not post your racing engine build combo in the racing engine build thread? Oh please! Thanks for the tip on the powerglideGot to see if i can dig one up close to me.

badf85

Been the same old stuff with different cranks and blocks the last 9 years. Not sure I even remember all the specs. I will try to get around to it.

ferndaleflyer

Anyone besides me tried a 2 speed T-400? I have had 2 different ones, one ran first and high and the other uses 2nd and high----Check ATI catalog

wr1970

Wow where are you located nearest big town?

ferndaleflyer

Raliegh and Greensboro are 60 and 50 mi away......Not to worry as I could care less about 1/4 racing as it just keeps going away and we have numerous 1/8 mile tracks and racing. As I remember there are 22 tracks less than 3 hours from here........I enjoy my neighbors----cows, Llamas, chickens, deer, etc and nearest traffic light is 12mi away and it only blinks. And no HOAs!

wr1970

So you could go to a 1/4 mi track that isn't to far away you just haven't.That means you would never race your car at Norwalk because you wouldn't know what to dial.

chadman

For a bracket car (especially a light one) I would say a glide is the way to go. The car I'm building will be primarily used for index racing on a .400 pro tree so I plan to use a three speed to help get it off the line a little quicker.

badf85

I know of many that went from a 3 speed to a glide and never loose et or 60'. Then never back. I've done a lot of index racing and more than not run a PG. Looks like your new ride should lighter than mine even. Looking REAL good by the way!!

chadman

Thanks Kevin. I'm actually more concerned with breaking the beam fast than the 60'. Do you run a .400 or .500 pro tree?

badf85

I started 7.00 index 1/8 mile racing back in 2005 on the .400 pro tree. Had ran NHRA Super Street 10.90 1/4 mile .500 pro tree prior to that. You can adjust the rpm leave to adjust RT some. I would leave all the way up on the converter for the .400 tree most of the time. Always leave wheels up out of the beams. Unless the track is junk and slick. I know lots of guys who had ran 400th 3 speeds for years that tried power glides and would never go back 3 speed, including myself. If you would like to talk some time let me know. Your new build is looking so sweet!!!

ferndaleflyer

WR1970 on the contrary, Rockingham is the only 1/4 track anywhere around here that does let you run that on T&T days and like I said I race 1/8 so no use to even bother testing on the 1/4-----Now on the Norwalk you suggest I can't run, I have run Norwalk 3 times in the past---won once, made a few rounds the other 2 times and got a T shirt for running dead on my dial in once----so, do I really need to make a special effort to test on a 1/4??????

wr1970

You are talking in circles as in why even say i wonder what it runs if you really don't care to put out the effort to find out.If you ran this car at norwalk with this combo again misleading to say i wonder what it will run.I am just curious and that is it. I guess i miss your point period as why your saying i wonder seems you already know just not telling for what ever reason. If the shoe was on my foot 1/8 mi tracks or not i would go find out what my car run in the 1/4 mi. But that is just me.Anyway have a good day

madmax442

D/DX, NASCAR block with Battens, Rocket Racing or well worked E-Brocks and lots of boost! Look up Gene Newtons 67 442 on YouTube. He made 1400hp with his twin turbo beast!

wr1970

Wecome where you been hiding.You get your motor done yet.How about a progress report.

madmax442

My BBO that Mark (Cutlassefi) is building is getting there. Mark said he just had finished an engine and showed me the dyno how it did. He has one more to complete in front of mine. It should make all of 550hp...... Maybe more!

ferndaleflyer

WR not trying to start a pi$$ing match here----I am a bracket racer that races year round and actually do pretty good at it. I really don't have to be fast only consistant and reliable. The current car has never been to Norwalk but I have raced there in 2 other cars in the past.......Is there some reason I should need to know how fast this car is in the 1/4 since I never race that distance? I personally don't care but thats just me.......Trust me I have been doing this a long time and know that some only care about how fast they can go. Thats not me----I have seen tables where they can predict pretty close comparing 1/8 to 1/4 times and just thought someone might know. OP didn't mean to hijack you thread!

wr1970

I do understand your point of view.On the other hand it isn't about how fast it goes it's getting all the information as a package.I also have done some 1/8 mile racing. Someone can throw up a table that shows what a car should run but it is a guess.The best dyno is the track.Hey it really has been nice discussing this.This isn't a pissing match just a understanding.On a side note i really like your blue car.

wr1970

I am sure it is capable hands let us know how it performs when you get it done.

madmax442

Mark is awesome!

ferndaleflyer

Thanks WR on the Blue car----the red one used to belong to Jeff Smith in Iowa.....I have had it several years now and although it wasn't me, Jeff won in it at Norwalk when he had it.......Awful hot down here but we are getting ready to go to Virginia Motorsports Park to race next week $5000--$10,000,-- $5000 Fri through Sun with a gamblers race on Thur.......By the way Danny Lattimore builds my engines and has an excellent reputation for close to 50 years with Oldsmobiles.........

Rallye469

Race gas or pump gas?

-Pete

chadman

Since it's a tube chassis race car I assume he is planning to run race gas.

wr1970

Yes race gas!

Rallye469

Gotcha!

Wow. That stuff hurts to buy.
I ran out of gas at the track once and bought 5 gallons of the cheapest stuff I could find. $75
I wanted to cry.

-Pete

chadman

I can get Sunoco 110 for $6.99 per gallon here.

wr1970

I hear you!LOL Pete did you not go look at my album to see this car i am trying to finish Rocket Vapor.I would like to post more pics i am not computer talented.I have around 108 just on getting the chassis reworked. They show what this car chassis looked like and how it changed to now.Next week i am going to try and put some reworked tail lights in it and start getting ready to wire for battery and then to set up brake lines.

wr1970

Going to make a guess of around mid tens.