FStanley

Olds performance gurus:

What do you guys use for a distributor hold down clamp?

I see Chevy billet ones at Summit racing, etc but none for Olds '64up V8


Curious on what you use, opinions, experiences what works, what does not... etc on this please

Fred

Gmcdually

I have this one I took off 74 455 , not sure if this will work for what you need.

Allan R

What's wrong with the stock clamp?

oldcutlass

X2, its not like the clamp needs to be HD for any reason. Chrome and billet does not increase performance.

redoldsman

X2. Chrome and billet are strictly for show. If I had the engine in a T Bucket or street rod I might use one. No other need for one.

wr1970

X3

MDchanic

X4.


I'm actually having trouble even understanding what led to the formulation of this question in the first place.

- Eric

76olds

I suppose he's looking at the anodized chebby ones that summit offers. Ther perdy.
I don't think the poster has ever tried pulling an Oldsmobile distributor out after its been in place for several years . After huff 'n' puffin', pounding a shot down,, you don't need a heavy duty hold down clamp on an olds.

Eric

MDchanic

Well, yeah, exactly.

You don't need anything "heavy duty" to apply downward pressure on the distributor base, which has essentially no impetus to either move upward (the force on the drive gear actually pulls it downward) or to rotate.

Plus, it is impossible to see the distributor hold-down in its installed position, so even if it were gold plated, you would never know it.

- Eric

76olds

I'd like to know what he's thinking about when stating a heavy duty distributor hold down posting in the Racing and High Performance forum.
I'm ????ing, dam maybe I need this part.
Then I'd need better seat belts thou EH.

Allan R

Really?

76olds

Possibility Yeah .

FStanley

so it seems no benefit over stock clamp...

thanks

MDchanic

Short answer: Nope.

We could probably keep the long answer going for several weeks, though, if we tried.

- Eric

joe_padavano

Of COURSE the billet clamp improves performance - your wallet will be much lighter!

olzman

FStanley sense no one else will answer your question here is a link to the one Rocket Racing makes and you really do not need one for most performance applications.
http://shop.rocketracingshop.com/OLD...ET-DIST-HD.htm

VC455

BTR Bill makes one too.

http://www.btrperformance.com/products.html

Page down once or twice, look on the left.

MDchanic

"OLDSMOBILE BILLET DISTRIBUTOR CLAMP
CNC machined from 6061T6 billet aluminum. Fits all Oldsmobile engines.
More surface area contact with distributor provides better clamping force that stock clamp.
.500" thick for increased rigidity and durability Stainless stud, washer and nut included."
... Because we all know that the stock clamp has insufficient surface area and rigidity.



... And to think, only $26.50!





"Billet aluminum Oldsmobile distributor clamp. In stock and ready for shipment $5"

At least he's not robbing you at $5.


- Eric

olzman

MDchanic and you believe Rocket Racing is robbing you at 27 bucks for their item obviously you have never made any thing as a business. BTR's is much cheeper because it is basically just a machined pice of aluminum not anodized and no hardware John doesn't try to rip anyone off and neither does Bill your just not comparing apples to apples IMO. I was just answering the guys question not trying to tell him he was a dumb *** for asking it. I can tell any of you who think its not needed in an all out performance application that John and I'm sure Bill do not waste time making parts that are not needed at some level they do not have time too. I personally know John and have done and am still doing business with him. He works between 10 and 16 hours a day most of the time 7 days a week to provide parts and service to the Oldsmobile community and especially the Oldsmobile racing community as I'm sure Bill does also you can't be successful in a niche brand like Oldsmobile with out doing so JMO

joe_padavano

I don't think anyone is saying they are being "robbed". I think the whole point we're trying to make is: is this REALLY a needed extravagance? I've never heard of a distributor flying loose because someone used the (free) stock steel hold-down. If spending $5 or $27 for a piece of jewelry (that is virtually unseen at the very back of the motor) makes you feel better, go for it. That sort of bling just isn't high on my list of priorities for functional performance improvements to my car.

MDchanic

Olzman, I'm sure that Rocket Racing's clamp is worth every penny of workmanship as a piece of sculpture.
The question is whether it is worth the money to the buyer as a functional part of an engine.

There are three ways I can think of that this part could offer an improvement on the original:

1. It could be lighter.
Considering that the original is a piece of stamped ⅛" steel (ie; U-section or, essentially, hollowed out), while both of the replacements are advertised as solid billet aluminum, and that the original part is very light to begin with (I don't have one here, but I'm guessing about an ounce), the odds are that the parts weigh essentially the same amount, or that the difference is insignificant.

2. It could perform its function better.
The function of the distributor clamp is to exert a downward force on the distributor case flange, holding it in place in the block, and preventing it from rotating.
The force required to do this is minimal, as there are really no forces in opposition.
Regardless of whether Rocket Racing's (or BTR's) clamp has more surface area (which it may) or is more rigid (which I doubt), it will perform the clamping task no better than the original.

3. It could allow for more easy adjustment or removal.
Like, maybe, the quick release on a bicycle axle - snap the lever, rotate the distributor, snap it back, drive away, no annoying reaching into the valley with an open end wrench or a socket.
Unfortunately, neither the original nor the Rocket Racing part, nor the BTR part adds any functional features.


So, no , I'm not saying that John is robbing anyone, or that he's not a hard worker, or a nice guy, or that he doesn't sort his recyclables. His part is very pretty and shiny, and I'm sure that, for a pretty and shiny thing, it's worth the price.
What I am saying is that I don't think it would make the slightest difference in the performance or operating of anyone's engine, and is therefore a waste of money.

- Eric

joe_padavano

You need to qualify this. It is a waste of money to you or me. Other people may decide that the money is worth it for the esthetic value. Neither of us can make that call.

MDchanic

Like I said, it's worth every penny as a piece of sculpture.

Many people have paid much more for sculptural pieces that I find far less attractive.

- Eric

olzman

Then you probably have never turned your engine above 6000 rpm and had the timing change because the distributer moved because no matter how tight you tightened the clamp it would not hold under the load put on the distributer by it turning a high volume/pressure oil pump trying to pump a heaver than stock weight oil thru an engine that was designed to not turn RPMs above 4500. That is my point if the part was not needed they would not make it. I don't know what times your cars run but when you start pushing an Oldsmobile engine in to the 10's in a heavy car you start having parts fail that you would never have fail in a stock or mild street engine. I race my car and know this from personal experience. The original poster asked a simple question not stating what he was doing with his engine Just answered his original question with out telling him he didn't need such a thing or the stock one works just fine.

olzman

And I'm not trying to start any thing with you Joe but he did say being robbed in his comment about my first reply about Rocket Racings Part



At least he's not robbing you at $5.

olzman

If I'm not mistaken this is the Racing and Performance section of this forum I was just answering the guys question with the answer he was asking about not wether or not i think he needs it. Its that simple to do. No one even asked him why he thought he needed one. I know why he might need one manufacturer that makes one knows why he might need one I felt the responses to his question where belittling to him with out even knowing why he might need such an item. If he had asked the question on the stock rebuild or keep my car 100 percent original sections I could understand the comments but he asked a ligament question on the proper section of this forum. I answered with a ligament response to his question with the facts he stated from personal experience racing my Oldsmobile powered car with time slips deep into the tens Im not the fastest or the best just answering is real question.

76olds

[QUOTE=olzman;981746] I can tell any of you who think its not needed in an all out performance application that John and I'm sure Bill do not waste time making parts that are not needed at some level they do not have time too.

Engine bling makes money period. No one would pay to make or make in house something that is a waist of time that's doesn't sell or make money. Take Rocket Racings clamp, why go through the hassle to manufacture, source bolts, then send out for anodising if its only for performance applications? Why ? because it sells as eye candy not just for racers.
So in my opinion John goes out of his way to make something that beats his competition in appearance and the little amount (if any) of extra insurance in the event a distributor should rotate on the strip.
Johns price reflects the added time, bling, cost to source/ manufacture over BTR's .
You are correct when you say your sure Bill doesn't waist time making parts that aren't needed from his price point.
For $5.00 you can get a little more added insurance on a lets say a 10- $12k build, now that makes sense.
Thanks for answering the OP's question in a fair play forum.
I had no idea you needed such a blingy part for all out performance that John makes.

Eric

Fun71

Please do not take offense at my warped sense of humor, but I thought this was downright funny as we don't have a medical / physiology section.
Dang autocorrect does it again.

76olds

Sometimes, you just have to add a little humor and smart A$$ remarks here on CO. Were all car guys, we can take it!! Have you been over on Isle 4 haha (humor djour)... its boring!!

Eric

VC455

Good one Kenneth. Nicely warped.

Most humor rates only L. That was LOL.

olzman

Boy i missed that one i thought it looked funny but wow I guess i should to a better job of proof reading LOL as some one said in a movie once 220 221 what ever it takes

76olds

Dam, I'm happy to see you liked it. Next show starts in 15min grab a seat quick ther going fast. You can do the ratings for this upcoming one as well. Yeah.. Put-r-ther!!
Do you have any medical equipment in your bag? Maybe a shot glass?

ELY442

I did 12.2 in the 1/4 mile with a stock clamp. Never came loose.

joe_padavano

11.95 @ 115.5 here with the stock clamp. The distributor did not fly out of the block at the top end.

MDchanic

No, I have not.



I have no choice but to respect your personal experience with this, as I have not raced an Oldsmobile, so I cannot challenge your basic statement that your distributor rotated during a high RPM run, when using the stock clamp.

That being said, I can challenge your description of the physical forces at work in the process:
In an Olds engine, the gear machined on the rear of the camshaft engages with the gear pinned to the bottom of the distributor, rotating the distributor shaft and, at the same time, creating a downward force on it.
The bottom of the distributor shaft has a socket, into which the stamped steel oil pump driveshaft is fitted. The oil pump driveshaft is rotated by the distributor shaft, fits into a socket in the oil pump, and rotates the oil pump.
Regardless of how much force is required to turn the oil pump, that force is transmitted through the oil pump driveshaft and into the bottom of the distributor shaft, and thence to the distributor gear and the cam gear.
There is no additional rotational force placed on the distributor body at any time, no matter what the load on the oil pump is.

So, regardless of what caused your distributor body to turn during a run, it could not have been caused by the thickness of the oil.

While you were there and I was not there, so I cannot say what you observed, I wonder whether there could have been a flaw in your stamped steel factory distributor clamp which caused it to be unable to exert its designed force on the distributor flange.

Regardless, you did have an experience that indicated to you that the factory distributor clamp was inadequate, and you found that an aftermarket clamp was more effective, so that alone is certainly a reason for using one that I cannot refute.



Neither you nor I really believe this.

The world is full of automotive "performance" parts, and many other things, some very, very expensive, that absolutely nobody needs for anything.



A fair point, but I, and others, were trying to get to the question of what he really does and does not need, what will really benefit him, and what will provide enough performance to be worth the expense.

- Eric

joe_padavano

It doesn't matter if you have the stock clamp or a bling-y aluminum aftermarket one, it's still friction alone that holds the distributor in place. One can make a case that a single point clamp (like the factory one) is less secure than a clamp that applies force around at least 180 deg of the distributor base. The reality is, however, that all the billet clamps I've seen (for Chevy as well as these Olds clamps) have been designed by "eyeball" and not based on engineering analysis. Aluminum has only 1/3 the stiffness of steel, and the small fingers that encircle the base of the distributor will deflect (and thus loosen) when made from aluminum instead of steel.

I'll also add that Eric's analysis is based on steady-state loads. The reality is that loading on the distributor is dynamic. There are torsional harmonics in the cam, and this leads to cyclical loading on the distributor gear and shaft. The result is that there is a vibratory load that can cause distributor walk. The magnitude of this load and how it gets reacted by a clamp is not easy to determine.

And no, I've not turned a BBO over 6000 RPM either.

VC455

Originally Posted by olzman
... and had the timing change because the distributer moved because no matter how tight you tightened the clamp it would not hold under the load put on the distributer by it turning a high volume/pressure oil pump trying to pump a heaver than stock weight oil thru an engine that was designed to not turn RPMs above 4500.

Another possibility:
The distributor may have turned from oxidized oil or lack of lubrication in the upper distributor bearing. That would transmit a rotational force to the Distributor body.

oldcutlass

Stock Olds engines peaked HP at around 5400 rpm. I agree there had to be another issue, probably the stock clamp was over tightened and stressed prior. I don't see the billet one being any stronger, aluminum has no memory and crushes.

BlackGold

If your distributor turns while clamped, I'll suggest that it may have been shimmed internally so that the point of interference (as the distributor gear and shaft are thrust down by the cam gear) is between the top of the shaft and the housing, instead of between the bottom of the gear and the block as intended.

Fun71

I recall a post on ROP where one of the Daves (Dave H maybe?) said his W-31 made 325 hp @ 5400 RPM as the specs claimed, and the power continued climbing to 360 hp @ 6000 RPM and they shut the dyno down at that point.