I was wondering why no one has a set combination of rods and pistons to put in a 350. The max performance book by Bill Trovato says you can stroke the crank to accept a sbc 6x2 inch rod and 4.125 piston. I want to go this route but can't seem to come up with a combination that I know will work. I will probably just end up boring to 4.125 and leave the rods and crank alone. I've read all the forums on this but everyone seems to never get a answer.

 

Something about a Chavy 400 piston and 6 in rod. In case you haven't seen this thread yet, stuff about your question:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-86999/page2/

 

Harry:
The spreadsheet that Orlando posted is from my build thread that I started in 2014. I won't take any credit for this combo as it pretty much all came from Mark Remmel (CutlassEFI). I used (at Mark's suggestion) Icon pistons for a 400 Chevy motor (PN IC759-STD) which is a .068" overbore and 6" Scat rods for an early 327 Chevy with 2" big ends (PN 26000200). I had the crank offset ground by reducing the rod journals to fit the 2" Scat, this increased the stroke to 3.5" which nets about 374-375 cid. My engine build also included a roller cam, aluminum heads from Bernard Mondello and roller rockers. If you have more questions, I suggest you contact Mark (CutlassEFI) as he is the guru behind this build combo. He also has a SBO stroker crank available that will yield even great displacement gains over the stock bore & stroke.
Rodney

 

Thanks Rodney.
However today I wouldn’t go in that direction necessarily. If you want max cubes then do my Stroker crank (yields 428-434ci safely) or just do one of the aftermarket pistons now available for SBO with stock stroke. Mahle, DSS and others make a good piston in various sizes. Scat and Molnar will now have a stock style upgraded SBO rod in the coming weeks.
i did a 357 (4.100 bore) and made 417/433 with iron heads. If done right you can repeat that pretty easily.

 

well to start from the top i have a edelbrock 7111 with #6 heads. i would like to do this as budget minded as possible, but i understand that its going to get pricey. what rods and pistons work with your stroker crank? im split between building a stroker or boreing to 4.125 and running one of those aftermarket pistons. if i just do pistons ill probably be able to afford a hydraulic roller but otherwise the budget will probably limit me to a flat tappet. i am shooting for at least 400 hp range.

 

With that budget my Stroker crank is out of reach, sorry.
So, concentrate on boring to 4.100 and using the Mahle piston kit. That is the most modern piston and ring package available. From there a set of aftermarket rods, a little head work and the right cam and you’ll make your 400. I used that same intake.

 

6" Chevrolet rods + SBC 400 pistons ( there are PLENTY to choose from, plus FAR more sizes than on those Mahle pistons) makes viable choice. But thats not a stroker.
Only extra-machining needed is either widen the rod journal on crank or mill the big-ends narrower from rods. You cut the rod-journal on crank just down to fit those rods.

Just one more option which usually gets forgotten to tell when trying to push "own" items to market. I have nothing against producing new items, they are awesome, but in all fairness they are not the only game in town.

 

Hmmm, a few points. Why do all the extra machine work just to go to 4.125?
In addition you’ll need to narrow the small end of the rod as well. Being offset it will most likely hit the pin boss.
So, let’s review, using a Chevy rod you’ll need to grind the journal to that size, even if it doesn’t need grinding, narrow both the big and small ends, as well as go all the way to 4.125 just to pick up a few extra ci.
Verses bore to 4.100, get the soon to be available Scat rod which will pretty much be a drop in piece. Ad to that the Mahle piston is coated on all surfaces and uses a more modern ring pack. Yeah your, the old way, is better.😉
P.S. Let me let you in on a little secret. I’m the one that got Mahle to make the piston for this reason, a nice drop in piece. I was also instrumental in getting Scat to make the small block rod as well. Again so we can have an upgraded drop in piece. Makes way more sense to me to go that route then the old route.

 

For a budget build and 400hp your better of using the stock rods with standard stroke and getting an off the shelf piston. Use the money you save on the heads and cam. If you want 4.125 bore DSS has them, only down side is 12cc relief.

 

What do you think for head work on the #6 heads? Just some porting or big valves ? They are stock as far as I know.
​
I have a few sets of stock rods that I might go with if they work with the mahle pistons and are safe. Unless you think it's advisable to go with the scat rods that are coming out.

 

Thats hardly a little secret, youve been really proud to tout about the pistons you pushed to production, and little quieter about the rods.

I dont know why you need to narrow the small end on rods. I didnt, plenty of space. Maybe you had a poor choice on rods. But as he was asking options, i gave him one.

I could throw a question too that why throw any money to some old pile of shait when modern engines beat them night and day? Because its a hobby- its the drive to do something else. If efficiency and max power is the main goal, were some decades behind with these lumps of iron of ours. Not everything needs to be driven by efficiency, atleast when talking about hobby.

You seem to always get upset when someone offers an option that differs from your way, which mostly concentrates for selling parts you have, or parts youve pushed to market. Its not like anyone is saying you dont do great work, and theres many satisfied customers of yours in this site, its just that, as said earlier, its not the only game in the town, there are plenty of choices to choose from- if they all get shown and pointed, then its up to customer to decide what way he may choose to follow. Its diversity what makes this hobby interesting.

 

Because it’s an Oldsmobile and they didn’t make a modern engine worth a damn...

Are you seriously complaining about people bringing Olds parts to market???

My small block has Chevy rods and pistons and I for damn sure wouldn’t do it with the options Mark has available now (two decades later). There is absolutely no point in grinding the hell out of the crank just to “be different”. Fact is, the only reason anyone ever dropped the Chevy parts in was because of the lack of available Olds parts. With Olds parts available, why bother?

 

I beg to differ with you. The "Corporate High Mucky Mocks" changed Oldsmobile name to something which escapes my mind right now and slowly killed off Oldsmobile. And before they completely _ucked up, they killed Pontiac and kept Buford. The 350 and possibly the 403 would be around today if it weren't for "bean counters" running GM. And they would have the latest computer gizmo's to enhance performance. All you have to do is look what Oldsmobile did from 1949 onward.........until the "bean counters" and Roger Smith screwed up everything they touched.
.......Just my two cents worth.

 

Dude I’ve done 3 or 4 with Chevy rods, in 2 or 3 different configurations. All ran great but I wouldn’t do it that way again for various reasons.
And just an FYI, it’s not the rod that dictates if you have to machine the small end. It’s the piston and the subsequent pin boss. I used a Mahle SBC piston on one build which happens to have a very tight pin boss area. Other pistons do too.
And I only offer other suggestions, ones that typically are less hassle, that will produce nearly the same results for the reasons you mentioned. And again yes you’re right, I’m damn proud of what I’ve done, with the biggest announcement still to come. How many new parts have others on here brought to the Olds market that can be purchased anywhere?

 

On your point Ralph, anyone can take a 50 year old Olds small or big block, and make them significantly more efficient via EFI, Edelbrock heads and modern pistons and ring packs. They’ll never be an LS, Ford Mod or Gen III Hemi but those mods will bring them into the next century for sure.

 

Not following what you take exception to. Are you trying to argue the small block Olds is modern?

 

Oldsmobile had developed some pretty wild stuff over the years. Had they been allowed to go forward in the 90's, we very well could have had a "modern engine".

I guess, it depends on what you call a modern engine worth a damn.........

People are still building and running Olds engines. The upper management kept Oldsmobile from developing anything. With the help of Roger Smith and a flock of bean counters, foreign car companies started outselling American cars because of the poor quality and penny pinching to make more profit on the bottom line.
............Just my two cents worth.

 

Something designed and built in the past 30 years (being very generous) that people would actually want to swap into old iron.

 

When people are arguing about "modern engines", just keep in mind that the traditional small block Chevy architecture predates the small block Olds by about a decade. And if you really want to feel old, the LS architecture is rapidly coming up on a quarter century old.

 

Who the hell thinks a Gen 1 small block Chevy is modern?

 

may i remind you no 54 Chevy would out run Oldsmobile. I get your point Chevy v8 small block not modern.

 

FWIW am I the only one that sees similarity in the W43 & Northstar heads, particularly intake ports? Olds seems to have been on to something with the W43 only to have management and changing industry conditions kill it in prototype stage. Still a long way back but......

I cant get my head around this half assed criticism of Mark Remmel. He is one of the strongest professional supporters of the Olds V8 & has shown some big ***** getting things that help all of us. I have yet to hear a single complaint or criticism from one of his customers. He is not the only good Olds vendor but he’s rolling out a lot of niche parts that fill holes in Olds specific parts.

I for one salute you Mark.

Signed,
Some guy with Chevy rods & Mahle LSx pistons

 

Wow! Thank you so very much! That really means a lot to me. We don't hear from you too often so this caught me by surprise. Thank you again.
And I promise, even better days are ahead!!👌

 

You know you just posted the best post with good points. I also think Mark has come a long way with everything he does for the Olds community. Thanks Mark.

 

Agreed. Anyone bringing good quality parts to the Olds community deserves major props. The Mahle pistons he helped bring to market are damned nice, and going in my 425. He also supplied a 45 degree roller cam, lifters, and rods (from Rocket Racing - another company offering nice Olds parts) for the build. When I bought that engine, none of that stuff was available.

Besides the parts, he also offered up quite a bit of advice, before and after the sale.

That 425 is replacing my Chevy rod/piston equipped small block.

 

Let us know price and an availability date when those new rods come out. Good job as usual.

 

Not sure where y'all wanna draw line with "modern" and while it was never a production engine the Indy Olds was definitely worth a damn! Any you can even snag one off of eBay!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264722792411

I think the last and only "modern" production Olds engine was the Quad4. Even in stock form it was making respectable HP numbers for the time (190hp). I crewed for a couple Olds IMSA/SCCA road race cars (Cutlass Calais and an Achieva) and on the track those cars would turn lap times as quick as 13B RX7s and BMW 325is. Hit the curbing though and the cars would blow out the wheel hub. I think the engine living on until the early 2000s shows it was a respectable engine and when it debuted in the late 80s it was pretty cutting edge for the time, too bad the early ones blew head gaskets tarnishing it's reputation. Even today that old Quad4 is still pretty modern only thing it lacks is cam phasers for vvt and direct injection.

900-1000hp was seen in turbo'd versions built for the Aerotech program

 

I have outrun some modern muscle cars around here with a 6K small block olds 357 CI .- The biggest bulging eyes watching as I passed them from there 70K cars and SUVs and I didn't 't look back.
They are surprising performers.
My next build will be a MR stoker assembly.

 

Impressive for sure, even the 4 and 6 cyl Modern Muscle Cars aren't slow, at least 14's in the 1/4. Exactly why I'm building a 358, fast enough for my needs with the pistons and rods from Cutlassefi, should be around 400 hp. The numbers Mark has got out of the strokers makes the SB Olds competitive with all but the highest HP modern muscle cars.