ah64pilot

So in getting ready for the racetrack I pulled the valve covers off to adjust the valves. I did the driver's side last night, and I was doing the passenger's side tonight. This is what I found...#2 cylinder intake rocker arm pivot is cracked. #4 cylinder intake and exhaust rocker arm pivots are cracked and had fallen out of the rocker arm. The roller pivots were laying in the valve tray.

I have eliminated these possible causes:

Oil - notice each rocker has oil on the tip, the poly-lock also had oil in it when I put the allen key in to loosen it. Also, the #2 rocker that the pivots did not fall out of moves freely and has oil in it.
Geometry - notice each valve has a small wear spot almost directly in the middle of the valve stem
Stuck valve - all of the affected valves opened with a firm push of my hand
Valve Lash - the lash was set on the dyno with the engine warm, the #2 cylinder rocker that is cracked still had .020" valve lash before I pulled it off

Other possible causes? I have one theory, but I'm not wanting to name names...

coppercutlass

Hey you where planning on hitting the track on friday the 13th at least it didnt happen at the track where it could have snowballed into something worse. I hope you get it all fixed up and no more major issues come up good luck.

ah64pilot

Thanks man, I am so glad I decided to adjust the valves today. This sucks though...it didn't seem to idle differently or anything. I think these rockers are just cheap crap that I was sold. I'm gonna look at a set of Harland Sharps...

So much for doing suspension this month.

coppercutlass

It happens. Checking the valves is one of the things i do before i hit the track along with brake lines and axle seals which my car has an issue with eating up and any fuel lines, trans lince etc. id rather be safe than sorry .

380 Racer

Harlan Sharps are the way to go.Used them for many years & engines.

gearheads78

That was my first thought. What brand are they?
Best thing you can do short of a set of Jessels or T/D but I don't think they even make them for Olds motors.

Eddie Hansen

Richard if you were referring to Harland sharps they do make them for olds, that is what I put in my motor.

Eddie Hansen

richard never mind just reread DOH!!!!!

TripDeuces

I see 302 on the rocker. Is that a part number or for small block Fords? I know people say the SBF will fit but the angle of the push rod cup is incorrect for an Olds. Those pivots are thin also, damn. Can't go wrong with HS.

Lee_A

If you were planning on heading to Baytown, it doesn't matter anyway for this weekend - the track is hosting "Relay for Life", so no racing there this week.

I've seen broken rocker studs, rockers impaled by pushrods, pretzeled pushrods, all sorts of damaged lifters and camshafts, roller-tips that have come loose - but never seen THAT damage before! Only cause I can see, if poor quality.

I'll be hitting the track pretty soon, either next weekend or the following. My buddy will be bringing his turbo'ed LS pickup as well, we now have it putting 953hp to the wheels :-)

Lee

70Wcars

Awww Man...glad you caught it at home...I agree with the others...quality issue. I use Harland on both cars...stud mounted on W-30 @ .704 lift Solid Roller...over 250 passes..no probs. Shaft Mounted on Knowlton Head car and .736 lift...look fine as well...I think you are headed in the right direction for a perm. fix. Let us in SA know if you need anyhting.

Danny

11971four4two

It is a good thing you decided to check the adjustment on your rockers! You could have had a really bad day at the track. At least the bearings stayed contained and did not pollute your engine. I have a pretty good idea where those rockers came from. If someone sells you bunk parts like those I would not be going back for more!

defiant1

Could you elaborate on the SBF rockers? I bought a set for my 425, so if they won't work correctly, I should probably look elsewhere.

d1

copper128

Toss those in the trash and spring for a set of Harland Sharp #5016 or 5017's.

TripDeuces

Defiant I can't find the thread which had some great pictures to look at. I think pictures are worth a thousand words. However, if you have a copy of BTR's book on Olds engines on page 42 is a clear example of what I'm talking about. Like Copper128 said, go with the #5016 or 5017

Whether or not this led to the failure I'm not sure, just throwing it out there

67Olds442X2

Steve glad you found it early and it didn't turn into something worse. I almost bought the Scorpions before I decided on the HS 5017's. Hope you get it back running soon.

Dan

TripDeuces

It looks like you're running out of slot length on the rocker. I see a shiny spots on those. This is typical with rockers not designed for high life cams. Somewhere in the mid .500's this happens. Similar to Olds stock rockers. If I remember right your cam was in the .600s?

Paul dodd

Sorry to hear your bad luck but in a way you lucky to catch it in time before you did some real damage mate. I use Harland Sharpe no problem, i assume your pushrod length correct, good luck with it, keep us posted, Paul, U.K.DPP07DA0501140E36[2].jpg

ah64pilot

They are Small Block Ford rockers. It is my mistake for buying these...I'm glad I haven't found anything else wrong. Although, just to check for metal in the oil is going to cost me $85 for a new filter and 8 quarts of VR1 Synthetic...sheesh!

I was planning on hitting HMP tonight...so much for that. The only cause I can see is quality as well. When I talked to the people that sold them to me they were shocked but didn't hesitate to tell me they had a lifetime warranty and would replace them free of charge. So now I'll have a pretty set of rockers mounted to the wall of my garage that will never see the oil in my engine. What a waste.

Danny, I'm trying to get it fixed for BOP. I'm cautiously optimistic that it ran 12.73 with a dead cylinder and stock fuel pump. If I can get HS rockers in time I will still be there Thanks for your help! Do you know if Jesel makes a set for Oldsmobile Edelbrock heads? I wouldn't mind getting a shaft mount set Money is no object, I don't wanna risk chunking my $11K motor again.

I won't name names...but they are a well known Oldsmobile engine builder. I won't be going back. After getting a set of CHIPPED lifters for my other engine and a crap generic cam...and now this. No way! Besides, I'm tired of dealing with Californians anyway

If you notice the valve, the geometry was correct...also look at the picture of the 3 rockers that broke, the ones showing wear in the slot are because the pivot shafts had fallen out. The one on the right is broken but still in the rocker, and there is no slot wear.





Thank you Paul! It was all correct, just a bad product. Notice the valve wear I mentioned above, the geometry was all right, the lash was set right...it's just cheap crap I got from Mmmmm...I'm not gonna say

gearheads78

I found you a place where you can find another set.

http://www.mondellotwister.com/RockersPushrods.htm

defiant1

I looked at page 42 ..."The angle of the pushrod cup in the Oldsmobile Harland Sharpe 5003 is essentially a Ford-designed rocker, but works well on an Olds in lower-lift category."

The chapter goes on to say that the slot length seems to be the issue with the SBF rocker design as it applies to the lift travel (higher than .540).

d1

bigD

o.p.p. has the shaft mount jesel set up and btr has the proper h/s rockers for the olds engines...

TripDeuces

T&D Machine also offers a shaft set for the Edelbrock heads

cutlassefi

Plus your rocker geometry isn't quite right, it should be more towards the exhaust and a smaller pattern.
You can use the Ford rockers without any issues but you need to check everything that much more.

Sounds like you could use a roller!!!! Lol!

Good luck with your fix, keep us posted.

380 Racer

I have the 50016 set on my RR heads with a stud girdle. .727/.704 lifts with no problems. My next step will be T&D if and when I convince myself to part with the $1400-1500 for them......LOL.

joesw31

Steve,

Those rockers appear to be some good overseas stuff. The set of harland sharps I have are over 20 years old... Harland sharp will also rebuild there rockers for a nominal fee.

Anyway its to humid to it the drags...

joesw31

Danny, when is the BOP drags in SA? I would like to make this year. In the family car...LOL!

Lee_A

Are those Scorpions? I've not used Scorpions on an Olds, but have a set on a Pontiac that have worked fine for close to 20k miles. They also look NOTHING like those in the pics - the set I used were blue and had a picture of a scorpion embossed on valve side of the rocker.

But I had Harland Sharps on my old 455 Olds, and also on my old 455 Pontiac, along with installing at least a half-dozen more sets on other motors - never had a problem with any of them.

Lee

sicky olds

The BOP is going to be the 27th of this month. I will be there with the H/O hopefully if i can get my brake lines installed in time .

He posted info on the forum somewhere, i wanna say in the announcements section or on the thread about performance that ah64 started.

joesw31

Thanks for the info on the BOP.

You got practically 500 HP on 7 cylinders and a 12.73! Just wait to all cylinders are working good.

ah64pilot

Anyone have a part number for the Jesel set up? And an approximate price? I know its overkill, but I'm a fan of insurance...and it comes in all forms.

PS, the dealer I got these from has a lifetime warranty on them so they are replacing for free. I may use the "credit" to get the shaft mount setup...I am going to try like hell to make it to BOP!

sicky olds

You better man. Lol been trying like hell to get the h/o ready for it.

ah64pilot

Ok, I think I can upgrade the rockers I have through Mondello because they have a lifetime warranty. Has anyone ever used the 7500 rockers that they offer? They look to be Harland Sharp pedestal mount rockers with a 7/16 bolt instead of the 5/16 you can get directly from HS.

I am going to call HS tomorrow to see if they make the rockers for Mondello before I upgrade to them.

11971four4two

Ask them to be honest and tell you what HS part # you will be paying for. Nice of them to offer you a credit for the last batch

ah64pilot

I won't tell you I haven't gotten bad parts from Mondello before, but I will say with all honesty that Lynn has ALWAYS taken care of me. I guess having a long standing relationship with him may have helped, but I think they are also feeling the pressure of having had below standard business practices the last few years.

I don't mind parts from Mondello, I just want to know what they are. And they do get custom made stuff from major vendors that OPP and RRP can't get. So there is something to be said for that.

So has anyone used the 7500 rockers?

SBORule

Aren't those Angas rockers? I know I mis-spelled that I can't remember how to spell the manufactures name.

I didn't think Scorpion rockers were made by the above named manufacture that I forget how to spell.

ah64pilot

I don't think they are Angas...they are Mondello specials. I've seen the Angus name and their reputation is pretty good...although they aren't around much anymore. The way these broke, I can't see them being made in the U.S.

At one time I think that Angus and Scorpion were one in the same but they split...who knows.

ah64pilot

Ok, so I sent the Mondello rockers back to them. They are going to replace them...

I ordered a set of 5016's direct from Harland Sharp and got a great deal...now I'll know I'm getting real Harland Sharp rockers. They had to make them...when I called today they were assembling them and will ship tomorrow...we should be running by the end of the week!!!

On another note; in a week I'll have a brand new set of Mondello rocker arms as seen above for sale. Any takers?

Rickman48

And I suppose the morons @ Mound[of crap]ello's wouldn't credit you towards a set of 5016's!!

ah64pilot

No way man! But I was offered the opportunity to pay an extra $200 to "upgrade" to a purple set of shaft rockers. After talking to Randy Jr. at Harland Sharp regarding the purple shaft rockers and finding out they weren't made my HS...I respectfully declined the offer. I'll just get the purple nurples back and sell em on the cheap to someone that's got a milder build.

I am done dealing with those guys...too much junk being sold for way too much money. I know the vendors they say they're buying from...I'll be buying direct from now on.