Hello. New to this forum. I recently bought an 72 Olds Cutlass S drag car from a local guy here in utah. Car was a steal. But has a rod knocked 455 in it. it has a lot of good supporting mods. Long tube headers, high torque mini starter Offenhauser intake manifold Mondello ported Iron heads, Roller Rockers, Old school Fluidampr, Milodon pan, and i have time slips of the car going 11.20's at this DA (arround 7000) 5 years ago before I bought it. Id like to use all of these parts the car came with , and would like some more power. Rumor is this motor made 560 wheel hp. it had stock Crank, rods, and forged TRW pistons. The rest of my cars are pretty serious. and I want this one to be too. my questions are, other than buying the 5k aftermarket olds big block, what is my best way to make this motor handle some power. I have a fuel Tech FT500 to go on it, along with big fuel supply.

I see filling the block is an option, Half filling or filling to water pump inlet outlet, can this still be street driveable after its filled?

I see a couple of different options for Splayed caps, (pan rails or inside pan, as well as halo girdles) which would be the best?

Looks like a forged crank will be needed to go above 600hp, what have you guys used in the past that work well on these?

Are you guys running Aluminum rods in these motors?


I know this is a loaded post. I have made high Hp with other stuff, (dsms, Buick 3.8s, Volvo 5cylinders, ect,) So i am used to the struggle. and I sincerely appreciate anyones time that answers this post. Thank you.

 

I can't really help with your questions, but you mention of the I-5 caught my eye. My "other car" is a 2006 V70R manual trans.

 

Yeah. I have 3 Volvos. 98 Big turbo V70R, 98 V70 T5 on 75 shot, and an 97 850R that has a billet wheel 22t and 50 shot. Love Volvo's. That 6 speed in yours is a lot of fun.

 

I’m not sure I believe the 560 at the rear wheels, but....
For 600-650 crank hp a halo and internally balanced Eagle crank would be fine. Above that and you’ll need a better crank and block fill plus a full girdle.
Todays aluminum rods are somewhat streetable but unless it’s going to be in the upper levels of power not sure they’re necessary. However a better piston is a must.
And if you’re doing Fuel Tech EFI then I’d do the Procomp Shootout Intake. It comes with cast in bungs and will handle 600+hp.
Hope this helps.

 

That does help. Thank you for your input. I had no idea they made an intake specific for fuel injection. Thank you for that. I am looking to go into the higher horse power range with this motor. Thank you

 

Get rid of those old school Speed-Pro pistons, they are heavy!!! The factory rods aren’t that great, and are really out of the question at your desired power level.

My experience at those power levels is limited, so at this point I’ll let the real experts chime in. With the right parts and good machine work the engine will make the power you want and live a reasonable long life in my opinion.

 

Yup. I agree with you on the Pistons and rods. I won't be using any of it. The block I have is allready 40 over so I will probably start with a block that's standard bore. Thank you for the input.

 

For bigger power use a piston made from 2618, not 4032. And if you’re intending on going above 800 or so then you’ll need the block from Rocket Racing for best results. They’re pricey though.
But if you’re sticking with a stock block then make sure whoever machines it has a BHJ Bor-Tru like I do. It makes a difference, I guarantee it.

 

Where in Utah are you located?

 

Lets put some realistic numbers to your performance.

11.20 = 118 MPH
118 MPH @ 3500 pounds (guessing) is 443 crank shaft observed HP @ 7000 feet DA
This would translate to approximately lets say 570 corrected fly wheel dyno HP
11.20 at your altitude would be approximately 10.60s in sea level conditions or possibly a little faster if the barometer goes above 30.0
Nice running Olds.
I would never run the Pro comp intake, its a disaster, but then again I'd be running a carb.

 

With Batten heads it’s a mismatch. But with Edelbrocks etc it works quite well.

 

You could have a point there. Whens some more dyno tests coming?

 

I am in murray

 

Im sure the hp numbers i was told was Corrected to sea level. it was dynoed here in utah I know with carb applications the straight through style intake manifold is not as good as a dual plane intake, but why would you say it would be a disaster? Thank you again for your information

 

Not sure, to my knowledge he's only seen one of these, and it was on an application that had an aftermarket head that wasn't designed for that intake, (see Battenrunner in the "Racing and High Performance" section) as per my earlier statement. The Procomp "Shootout" intake is basically a reproduction of the former Offenhauser "Port O Sonic", which was a tried and proven intake for all BB Olds engines '65 and up running stock port location heads.
There are others on here that have waaaay more experience with Oldsmobile's and the available aftermarket parts associated with them than he does. Just an FYI.
Hope this helps.

 

"to my knowledge he's only seen one of these"


CutlassEFI is right about this, it was a disaster with a Batten head, I did look at the Pro Comp intake though, I believe it would require work to make good power with a Edelbrock head.

"There are others on here that have waaaay more experience with Oldsmobile's and the available aftermarket parts associated with them than he does. Just an FYI."

I wouldn't be so sure about that, I've successfully raced a D/SA 1970 W 30 that ran quite well, I've also raced other Olds that ran faster than rest around here pound for pound. Keep in mind building an engine is one thing, machining in house, dyno testing then track testing and backing the dyno numbers up is another. My current project is a 1971 315HP 455 Buick for F/SA which runs pretty quick. So I guess you could say I do work a lot with stock parts.

 

I m defintely not trying to stir anything between anybody on here. If the fuel injected manifold works decently with 173 stock heads, I was hoping to stick with the ones I have. They have pretty drastic port work, and are in great shape. If thats not a reality then it is what it is. Im sure i would have to do some port work on the intake to match the head,

I was actually hoping that with your guys guidance, once I figure out how drastic I have to go on the block/mains, to figure out if a stock stroke, or stroker would be the best decision, for the power level im trying to achieve, and then add progressive nitrous to get the power level im looking for, Ive got Nitrous on multiple cars, and its a strong point for me.

Thank you everyone for your time so far, and valuable information, experience.

 

No problem, your not causing any problems.

 

Couple the Shootout intake with a 1300cfm or so Throttle body (FAST and Wilson make nice ones) and you’ll be fine well past 600hp on motor alone.
Yes, Fuel Tech should have multiple stages of nitrous so you can dial that in as desired.
To get to the 800 mark (about the most a stock block will take) with nitrous shouldn’t be too difficult. If your current heads are as good as you believe then your goal is well within reach.
Hope this helps.

 

It definitely does thank you for taking your time to respond. What are your thoughts on stroker/stock stroke? It would be cool to street drive it with 600 or so hp, then rely on the nitrous to make up for it on the track

 

Keep in mind, the guys at Fast Lane Machine in Orem are fluent with the Oldsmobile V8.

 

If your heads are really good then you won’t need the extra stroke to make your number. BUT it would be that much easier to make more power.
CP makes a good 2618 piston with a decent ring pack for both stock and Stroker applications.
If it’ll be mostly street driven stick with steel rods, more track then go aluminum. Those will add life to the build for sure.
Again about 800 or so is your limit with a fully girdled stock block. You MIGHT be able to approach 900-1000 if you do block fill, a full girdle, Scat Billet Crank and aluminum rods. Otherwise you’re in new aftermarket block territory.

 

Correct, he isn’t, you are.
How do you say an Intake is crap, then recant the statement not once, but twice. You continue to show your true colors. Thank you for that.😀

 

Wouldn't more stroke limit the already limited RPM capability of the OLDs 455? Wouldn't the use of nitrous make enough TQ on it own? RPM is wheel speed, wheel speed makes drag cars go faster as the wheel turns faster?

 

Think on his application with port work it would be alright, but as you mentioned for our application (Batten heads) it was so bad I wouldn't have proceeded with the build wasting my time and the customers.

To answer your question, I do enjoy our give and take.

 

It’ll RPM just fine if he went with aluminum rods and all the other mods mentioned. Plus I believe the Scat Stroker crank is fully counterweighted, again helping to stabilize the rotating assembly.

 

Ok-but how does his production heads port volume keep up with the added displacement? This is always on my mind after seeing your engines peak around 5200 RPM.


Although center counter weights would be a plus.

 

The 480 I did with the Shootout intake peaked at 6000-6200, so.....
But on his we just don’t know yet because all of this is ASSUMING his heads are really good based on his comments.

 

But again how do you get enough cross sectional area in any production Olds head even if they are fully ported, to support 460 inches at any decent RPM intended for drag racing? Making the engine bigger seems counter productive in my opinion.

 

What heads were on the 480?

 

Decently ported Edelbrocks iirc.

 

What do you think the power curve would look like if you ran that 480 up to 7000 RPM?

 

I follow along with most posts to gain information. But you two take most the fun out of it. Why don't you start your own thread to carry on back and forth.

 

Cool! I've heard conflicting stories on upgrading to bigger head studs. Couple of guys I talked to said the deck was allready thin on these and to use stock size studs, and I've heard to use them. What do you guys do?

 

A stud in the standard size of 7/16 would be fine for your power level. The aftermarket block comes with half-inch, but again that’s made for much higher horsepower levels.

 

I try not answer his questions as this is typical of him to question everything I do, in a bad way. I’ll make an effort to not allow it to go off on to any other tangents.

 

I like reading about all your advice Mark. May need some advice from you someday down the road. Keep up the good work.

 

Before you commit to a 455 build take a look at some Olds DX / Nascar block builds.
Building a new engine around existing parts is not always wise given your goals.

 

The best place to start is right here https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-thread-95059/.
And for ideas go to this web page of Dick Millers 511 EFI build making 727Hp. https://www.dickmillerracing.com/mag...inoldsefi.html.
And this one https://mondelloperformance.com/wp-c...usOverkill.pdf

After 40 years I can honestly say Hp comes down to air flow and cylinder pressure. Cylinder pressure creates torque, torque makes you move period, whether it comes from the motor or gears. How efficiently, at what RPM, and for how long it will last is based on the design. I've seen heads of different makes that had the **** ported out of them, flow no better than mid ported heads and until V12powers gets those heads flowed all the guesses don't mean ****.

Food for thought: I have some R/C model fuel (50% Nitro, 45% Alcohol, 5% castor oil) if I were to spray this into the carb how much Hp gain would I get and for how long on a stock 455? LOL

Ray

 

T