455 Strip Build
April 23rd, 2012, 06:50 PM
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455 Strip Build
Ok, so me and a friend have decided to build my 72' Supreme as a strip car rather than part it out. Ive tried to sell it for $900 a few times and nobody is interested so i figured if im not making any money on it i might as well get some fun out of it...Anyway...
Im planning the motor build now and wanted to get some more experienced oppinions/advice on it. First and foremost this will be a strip motor. I do want to drive it on the road sometimes, it doesnt have to be street friendly it just has to be able to drive down the road no matter how hard or easy that may be. The main focus is strip.
So, getting away from that paragraph of explanation haha, here is what im thinking for the build. First the good news, ive convinced my friend to build a 455 for it rather than drop in a 454, i know 455s can make a TON of power and drop in so easy that its worth the extra cost just to make things so much smoother.
Here is what im thinking as of now. And please, i would appreciate some advice on this but id rather stray away from opinion-based argument or anything like that, but right now im thinking of getting the 455 crank off-set ground and using chevy rods in it, and im also thinking of using 396 chevy pistons as well. I know, i know, theres a sh*t load of controversy over that about the domes and piston pin differences. My take on it is the rods and pistons will easily match up since theyre made for each other and the rods and crank will easily match up since the rods now match the journals of the crank. I looked up aftermarket Olds rods and theyre 6.735 length, there is a 6.735 length Chevy rod available so thats perfect. Im just wondering what hidden problems i might run into running this set up, if any. Our goal for the motor is 13:1 compression on E85. The E85 isnt something i want to discuss, im a fan of it, some arent, i get that and i respect it, its just what we want to do and i dont want it to turn into a big argument that gets the thread way off base.
So an offset ground 4.5 stroke 455 nodular crank with 2.20 chevy journals, 6.735 Chevy rods, 396 pistons at 4.155 (30-over 455 bore) with domes cut down to about 7cc dome and valve notches cut. Stock deck height, looking at pro-comp aluminum heads. (I would REALLY prefer Edelbrocks but we just dont have the cash to shell out on a set so we'll go with the chinesium.) 77cc new aluminum heads with 2.07 intake/1.68 exhaust. Most likely a mechanical roller cam, im thinking i'll get with CutlassEFI on a specific grind for it. Any recomendations on an intake? Seems Torquers are popular, i was thinking maybe an Performer or Performer RPM? Not sure whether to do a large carb like a 950 or 1050 or two smaller carbs? Advice? Headers (recomendations??), 3-inch dual exhaust with X-pipe. (We've been tossing around the idea of glasspacks and/or cut-outs. Id like mufflers and cut-outs myself but its a little more pricey so we might just split the difference with glasspacks). I have a long-tail TH400 we will build for it. Any advice on a rear end? Im thinking a build 12-bolt might do the job but want to be sure. Also i'll be sure to open up all of the oil passages quite a bit to keep the motor well oiled and most likely will add the restrictors and be really careful getting the bearing clearances really close. I want to be extremely careful with the oiling and bearings to try to make them live.
Any advice would be very much appreciated. This is still in the planning stage so changes can be made. we're aiming for 13:1 compression but we might tone it down to 12:1, like i said we're still planning. Looking forward to your input! :-)
Im planning the motor build now and wanted to get some more experienced oppinions/advice on it. First and foremost this will be a strip motor. I do want to drive it on the road sometimes, it doesnt have to be street friendly it just has to be able to drive down the road no matter how hard or easy that may be. The main focus is strip.
So, getting away from that paragraph of explanation haha, here is what im thinking for the build. First the good news, ive convinced my friend to build a 455 for it rather than drop in a 454, i know 455s can make a TON of power and drop in so easy that its worth the extra cost just to make things so much smoother.
Here is what im thinking as of now. And please, i would appreciate some advice on this but id rather stray away from opinion-based argument or anything like that, but right now im thinking of getting the 455 crank off-set ground and using chevy rods in it, and im also thinking of using 396 chevy pistons as well. I know, i know, theres a sh*t load of controversy over that about the domes and piston pin differences. My take on it is the rods and pistons will easily match up since theyre made for each other and the rods and crank will easily match up since the rods now match the journals of the crank. I looked up aftermarket Olds rods and theyre 6.735 length, there is a 6.735 length Chevy rod available so thats perfect. Im just wondering what hidden problems i might run into running this set up, if any. Our goal for the motor is 13:1 compression on E85. The E85 isnt something i want to discuss, im a fan of it, some arent, i get that and i respect it, its just what we want to do and i dont want it to turn into a big argument that gets the thread way off base.
So an offset ground 4.5 stroke 455 nodular crank with 2.20 chevy journals, 6.735 Chevy rods, 396 pistons at 4.155 (30-over 455 bore) with domes cut down to about 7cc dome and valve notches cut. Stock deck height, looking at pro-comp aluminum heads. (I would REALLY prefer Edelbrocks but we just dont have the cash to shell out on a set so we'll go with the chinesium.) 77cc new aluminum heads with 2.07 intake/1.68 exhaust. Most likely a mechanical roller cam, im thinking i'll get with CutlassEFI on a specific grind for it. Any recomendations on an intake? Seems Torquers are popular, i was thinking maybe an Performer or Performer RPM? Not sure whether to do a large carb like a 950 or 1050 or two smaller carbs? Advice? Headers (recomendations??), 3-inch dual exhaust with X-pipe. (We've been tossing around the idea of glasspacks and/or cut-outs. Id like mufflers and cut-outs myself but its a little more pricey so we might just split the difference with glasspacks). I have a long-tail TH400 we will build for it. Any advice on a rear end? Im thinking a build 12-bolt might do the job but want to be sure. Also i'll be sure to open up all of the oil passages quite a bit to keep the motor well oiled and most likely will add the restrictors and be really careful getting the bearing clearances really close. I want to be extremely careful with the oiling and bearings to try to make them live.
Any advice would be very much appreciated. This is still in the planning stage so changes can be made. we're aiming for 13:1 compression but we might tone it down to 12:1, like i said we're still planning. Looking forward to your input! :-)
April 24th, 2012, 04:45 PM
#3
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Your rod/piston combo is .125 too long.
Why not just use off the shelf stuff made for this combo. With a 5cc piston and heads cut to 70cc you'll hit 13.0:1.
Plus I didn't know anyone was making a 6.735 Chevy bb rod.
Why not just use off the shelf stuff made for this combo. With a 5cc piston and heads cut to 70cc you'll hit 13.0:1.
Plus I didn't know anyone was making a 6.735 Chevy bb rod.
April 24th, 2012, 04:49 PM
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Thanks cutlassEFI, i was going to come to you when i was ready for a cam 
Hm, i didnt know about the piston/rod combo length difference, what if i found a rod that was .125 shorter? I'll most likely go with the normal Olds stuff i was just wondering if this would work cause the domes would greatly help simplify the build. Can heads be milled down to 70cc safely without worrying about the valves?
I do like that idea i was just concerned about milling them down that far, id prefer to leave the block stock (it measured in at .031 in the hole by the way) in case i wanted to rebuild it down the road as a tamer street motor
Hm, i didnt know about the piston/rod combo length difference, what if i found a rod that was .125 shorter? I'll most likely go with the normal Olds stuff i was just wondering if this would work cause the domes would greatly help simplify the build. Can heads be milled down to 70cc safely without worrying about the valves?
I do like that idea i was just concerned about milling them down that far, id prefer to leave the block stock (it measured in at .031 in the hole by the way) in case i wanted to rebuild it down the road as a tamer street motor
April 24th, 2012, 05:30 PM
#5
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KB Icon IC942 with anyones 7.100 rod, Eagle, Scat, K-1 along with a 4.500 stroke crank gets you 10.625. I'd think you wouldn't need to deck it.
And that piston has a 4.5cc dish and comes in a bunch of oversizes.
Yes you can mill the PC heads to 70cc with no issues, unless you're looking at a very nasty cam.
And that piston has a 4.5cc dish and comes in a bunch of oversizes.
Yes you can mill the PC heads to 70cc with no issues, unless you're looking at a very nasty cam.
Last edited by cutlassefi; April 24th, 2012 at 05:34 PM.
April 24th, 2012, 05:37 PM
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1. Why not use the Probe flat tops and cut the heads like EFI said...that's way easier than grinding the crank and such...and if you decided to go back to a stock street motor you won't have to find a new crank.
2. Billet mains, and line hone...do I need to say more?
3. You can get a set of complete E'brocks for $1600 right now...and there ARE cnc programs for them. I don't know if there are cnc programs written for the ProComps. If you are going for all out performance you WILL need port work done to the heads. Also, the stock E'brocks are limited to .575" lift...how about the ProComps? Either way, you're gonna have to change the valve springs to get a bigger cam.
4. For a strip car, get a Victor Jr. intake and put an HP Holley on it. Size to be determined after cam selection.
5. Subscribed, keep us up to date...I wanna watch this one
Steve
2. Billet mains, and line hone...do I need to say more?
3. You can get a set of complete E'brocks for $1600 right now...and there ARE cnc programs for them. I don't know if there are cnc programs written for the ProComps. If you are going for all out performance you WILL need port work done to the heads. Also, the stock E'brocks are limited to .575" lift...how about the ProComps? Either way, you're gonna have to change the valve springs to get a bigger cam.
4. For a strip car, get a Victor Jr. intake and put an HP Holley on it. Size to be determined after cam selection.
5. Subscribed, keep us up to date...I wanna watch this one
Steve
April 24th, 2012, 06:58 PM
#7
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Thanks for the input guys! Much appreciated
Thanks for the piston/rod advice EFI, i'll look into that more, really my main concern with the build was the ability to shave the heads down enough to get us to where we want to be. However now that i know there shouldnt be valve clearance issues i say we just go with that. I do have a set of small valve C-heads laying around but im thinking jumping for new aluminum heads is money well spent, even if they are the cheapos. I had already had it in my head that i would need new springs, really anymore its almost a given that any time you get new heads you switch out the springs for aftermarkets (at least in my experience its been that way haha)
I'll definitly look into the Victor Jr intake, have you had any experience with Demon carbs? Ive been looking into Holleys and Demons but my friend has a Holley on his Chevelle and hes kind of frustrated with it so i think hes going to want to go another route (i like Holleys myself). Billet mains would have to happen for sure, im kind of half and half on girdles also. Its always seemed to me that girdles were more talked up by parts dealers but were never really necessary, seems like a part that, while giving added peace of mind, isnt really a necessity
On a final note, i really would LOVE to do a blower build with this rather than super high compression haha. But funds dont allow for that and in the end the higher compression will get us where we want to be cheaper and easier. And we'll still get to show all the Chevy boys that the 454 isnt the be-all end-all they think it is!
Thanks for the piston/rod advice EFI, i'll look into that more, really my main concern with the build was the ability to shave the heads down enough to get us to where we want to be. However now that i know there shouldnt be valve clearance issues i say we just go with that. I do have a set of small valve C-heads laying around but im thinking jumping for new aluminum heads is money well spent, even if they are the cheapos. I had already had it in my head that i would need new springs, really anymore its almost a given that any time you get new heads you switch out the springs for aftermarkets (at least in my experience its been that way haha)
I'll definitly look into the Victor Jr intake, have you had any experience with Demon carbs? Ive been looking into Holleys and Demons but my friend has a Holley on his Chevelle and hes kind of frustrated with it so i think hes going to want to go another route (i like Holleys myself). Billet mains would have to happen for sure, im kind of half and half on girdles also. Its always seemed to me that girdles were more talked up by parts dealers but were never really necessary, seems like a part that, while giving added peace of mind, isnt really a necessity
On a final note, i really would LOVE to do a blower build with this rather than super high compression haha. But funds dont allow for that and in the end the higher compression will get us where we want to be cheaper and easier. And we'll still get to show all the Chevy boys that the 454 isnt the be-all end-all they think it is!
April 24th, 2012, 08:06 PM
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If you get a Demon you're getting it used...BG is no more. Stick with the Holley, if you want a Holley built just for you let me know. DaVinci Performance Carburetors (Of American Choppers fame, Fireman bike carb and Lady Liberty carb) did mine and man is it smooth. A HP 950 that flows 830 cfm, no power valves, no BS...just a straight up performance carburetor. With an electric fuel pump I never touch the gas on start up
April 24th, 2012, 08:18 PM
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Oh sweet, thats awesome i'll keep that in mind. Yeah i really like Holleys so i think im going to try to convince my friend to go with one. I already had to convince him to keep it all Olds instead of dropping a 454 in haha (hes a Chevelle guy, but i dont blame him, its all the same great hobby no matter which brand you choose :-) ) And now i get to see his face when he feels the torque of this 455 compared to his Chevelle's 454 hahaha, fun stuff. And actually i did look at Probe pistons but havent heard anyone's input on how they were, i know SRP has a good rep, and TRW, Speed Pro, or whatever the hell theyre calling themselves this week are good too haha. I'll be looking into the Probes
April 25th, 2012, 04:38 AM
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Oh sweet, thats awesome i'll keep that in mind. Yeah i really like Holleys so i think im going to try to convince my friend to go with one. I already had to convince him to keep it all Olds instead of dropping a 454 in haha (hes a Chevelle guy, but i dont blame him, its all the same great hobby no matter which brand you choose :-) ) And now i get to see his face when he feels the torque of this 455 compared to his Chevelle's 454 hahaha, fun stuff. And actually i did look at Probe pistons but havent heard anyone's input on how they were, i know SRP has a good rep, and TRW, Speed Pro, or whatever the hell theyre calling themselves this week are good too haha. I'll be looking into the Probes
And Barry grant is back in business, new ownership.
April 25th, 2012, 06:39 AM
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I'll have to take a look at the quick fuel stuff, havent heard much about it, i'll look into it
Id look into zero decking the block if the price was less than just milling tha heads, but i feel like whether the head is being milled a little or a lot the price should be relativeley similar since its all the same yeah?
Id look into zero decking the block if the price was less than just milling tha heads, but i feel like whether the head is being milled a little or a lot the price should be relativeley similar since its all the same yeah?
April 25th, 2012, 07:05 AM
#13
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Actually Quick Fuel is a good suggestion, as they have E85 carbs ready to go, they have them up to 950cfm, im sure i'll need it haha. I could just get a normal carb built for E85 though, i'll consult the group about it
April 25th, 2012, 11:03 AM
#14
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Quick fuel is a good option, but it will still have the potential "problem" parts in it. And for the price of the quick fuel you'll be close to or over what I can get a tuned Holley for. When you get to that point, let me know and I'll get you a price.
April 25th, 2012, 05:55 PM
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Rickman - please explain to us how taking .020 off the deck is any different than taking .020 off the heads when it comes to intake manifold alignment.
April 25th, 2012, 06:44 PM
#16
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Potential problem I should say, power valve and such. I got my DaVinci tuned Holley HP for $750. Billet baseplate & metering blocks, lightweight body & bowls, the works...
Vega, DaVinci will guarantee his carbs for life & will tune it up free of charge should it ever need it. It's custom tuned for your engine rather than an off the shelf QF. And I'm sure EFI can agree that a custom grind, uh hem, tune is better than an off the shelf.
Vega, DaVinci will guarantee his carbs for life & will tune it up free of charge should it ever need it. It's custom tuned for your engine rather than an off the shelf QF. And I'm sure EFI can agree that a custom grind, uh hem, tune is better than an off the shelf.
April 25th, 2012, 06:56 PM
#17
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Lol, i got what he was saying, like any new carb is still going to have the same potential problems that might spring up with any rebuilt carb. Does DaVinci do E85 carb conversions? Ive been looking into Mark Sullens, seems like a good E85 carb rebuilder/converter. Im thinking im going to get a Holly 950 or 1050 rebuilt by someone into an E85 carb. With it being a 13:1 488 im thinking the 1050 is the way to go. My friend still has 454 builds in his head so i had to remind him that Olds motors typically like more carb and more cam than a comparible 454.
As far as decking the block or milling the heads ive put more thought into it and now im thinking im going to 0-deck the block. The heads will be new and might need a little machine work to get to fit right but the block is old and needs cleaned up and squared up so im thinking the block would benefit more from the machine work than the heads. As far as heads go i can just focus on port/polish and widening out the intake valves.
Got another question. Theres a TH350 in the Cutlass right now and i also have a long-tail TH400. Which would be better to build for this? I know the 350s can be built to handle drag-race power and end up with less parasitic loss but the TH400 is a long-tail unit and would most likely be easier/cheaper to build. So i thought id ask anyway
As far as decking the block or milling the heads ive put more thought into it and now im thinking im going to 0-deck the block. The heads will be new and might need a little machine work to get to fit right but the block is old and needs cleaned up and squared up so im thinking the block would benefit more from the machine work than the heads. As far as heads go i can just focus on port/polish and widening out the intake valves.
Got another question. Theres a TH350 in the Cutlass right now and i also have a long-tail TH400. Which would be better to build for this? I know the 350s can be built to handle drag-race power and end up with less parasitic loss but the TH400 is a long-tail unit and would most likely be easier/cheaper to build. So i thought id ask anyway
April 26th, 2012, 03:12 PM
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BG is back in business. It's my understanding that Holley bought them but is still marketing them under the Demon/BG name.
http://www.barrygrant.com/default.aspx
I couldn't find it just now but they have a new carb out that is a sort of copy of the old Thermoquads, polymer center section and all!
http://www.barrygrant.com/default.aspx
I couldn't find it just now but they have a new carb out that is a sort of copy of the old Thermoquads, polymer center section and all!
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